2019-20 Laws of the Game

Discussion in 'Referee' started by code1390, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    I agree that not every DB led to controversy in the past. Most just had a bit of mobbing the referee with player either claiming they should get to take the DB or that they should get the DB kicked to them. Then occasionally there was minor controversy when everyone didn't agree and once in a while major controversy when someone wanted to actually contest it or when the ball went somewhere that someone didn't deem fair.

    But then so far this season this is the first DB I've seen where there has been any controversy, the rest have just been quick and easy ways of getting the ball back into play, especially the DB-to-keeper-in-PA has worked a treat with no fuss or opponents being idiots or anything.
    So I would definitely say that it's better after the change.
    Beau Dure repped this.
  2. jayhonk

    jayhonk Member+

    Oct 9, 2007
    We are talking about 2 Law changes:
    The fundamental change to all dropped balls in Law 8; and, the new rule regarding what to do when the ball hits the referee, in Law 9.

    1) In my experience, ranging from u12 to MBB, when I announce a dropped ball, the most common reaction, over 90% of the time, is "What's happening here, ref?" Usually my answer is some form of "White had the ball, they stopped for the Blue injured player. So, if Blue could kick it back to White, that would be fair." In 13 years, I really don't remember any squabbles.
    To me, a fundamental change in all dropped balls, seems like a solution in search of a problem. Now, if I blow play dead, I have to be aware of who touched the ball last (is that really possession?) And, the small minority of times when a contested dropped ball makes sense, this is no longer an option...

    2) The other change, ball hits ref and changes the dynamic of play, is trying to address a real problem. A long time ago, I was a spectator at a BU17 match, where the ball hit the ref at midfield and switched possession. The referee immediately blew the whistle. He said, "inadvertant whistle", then did a quick dropped ball. I thought that was either creative refereeing, or MSU -- making stuff up. I thought it was MSU. Then, that same week I saw veteran EPL referee Phil Dowd do the exact same thing on TV. So, I guess it was creative refereeing. Add in the extremely rare cases where the ball hits the ref and goes in the goal, and there are a real issues of fairness here. Predictably, IFAB did a lousy job of codifying changes to Law 9 to address these issues.

    Now look at the video above. White makes a crappy pass that probably will be intercepted. Instead, it bounces advantageously off the referee to a White player. Assume there were no Laws, or even rules of thumb, governing this, what would a Fair resolution look like? It might be a contested drop at the referee's position. It might be: referee is part of the field, play on. Fill in your own blank. OK, who chose dropped ball to White? No one? But, now we must drop to White, because they were the last to touch the ball. Furthermore, Red has to back off 4 meters. Not really the best rule-based outcome... ...but, these players saw the justice in giving the ball back to Red. In other words flipping the rule outcome, from White gets ball, to the fairer outcome: Red gets ball.

    So now, Law 9 allows us to fix what we screw up. Which is good. But, in this case, Law 8 makes us give the ball to the 'wrong' team. Which is bad. Our hope is that the change in Law 8, doesn't force us to create an unfair outcome. The players' reaction is still, "What's happening here, ref?" And we still can assist -- without dictating, of course -- them in making the 'right' decision.
    Memo to IFAB:
    Law 8 change, Why?
    Law 9 change, do better.
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  3. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    I actually had this particular situation happen twice already under new LOTG:

    Defender clears the ball (hard) and strikes forwards head from 2-3 yds. Forward (now defender) drops to the ground, and I kill play quickly to assess potential head injury.

    By law, the ball should be dropped to the team of the head injury's player (he touched last) but by fairness it should probably go back to the defending team, who had possession before the unfortunate incident.

    In both cases, I dropped the ball to the injured player's team and they played it back to the other team. Which I agree is the more fair outcome. Just another example that this law change isn't as simple as it seems.
    Bubba Atlanta repped this.
  4. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    In your scenario, I think what’s “fair” depends on where the ball bounced after hitting the attacker—it could have bounced to a defender or an attacker. (If it was clearly going to a defender, and I thought about it quickly enough, I would pause the second to let it get there to be able to drop it back to the defender—not a significant pause, but a very brief one.)
    IASocFan and fischietto repped this.
  5. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    One might say that if the kicker hadn't been so uncoordinated as to kick the ball straight into the opponent's head, play wouldn't have needed to stop for injury. So what determines "fairness" here - base it on the player who got in the way or the player who kicked the ball into him?
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  6. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Good points. I didn’t have the wherewithal to consider where the ball was headed in my haste to stop play for a head injury. And once I did so, I forced myself into giving the ball back to the defending team.

    Apparently in my case the players determined it should go back to the defenders, and I wasn’t going to get in their way in doing so!
  7. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Here's another one from the case file of new drop ball fun ...

    U12 tournament this Columbus Day weekend. All 1 man crews. Errant ball flies from adjacent field onto mine and literally gets stuck between the attacker and defender competing for the ball!

    I stop play, and really have to think about what to do! Before the changes, this was the perfect instance to have a truly contested drop ball.

    Explained to the coaches that it wasn't an option and I determined the defending player to have the last touch (when in reality I hadn't a clue ;)). Announced it loudly enough for coaches and players to hear, and there were no complaints from anyone involved.

    I can imagine a similar situation in a more heated environment being much more difficult to manage ...
  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    This is definitely one of the challenges of the new Laws—who last touched (unless there is a potential for ball out of play) isn’t part of our reflexive awareness (at least not yet).
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  9. NOVA Ref

    NOVA Ref New Member

    Oct 21, 2019
    So it's still not clear to me what should be done in the case of an injury. For example, a blue player blasts the ball forward and hits an opponent (green player) standing in front of him in the face. He goes down. You blow the whistle for an injury. The restart is a drop ball and it should be to the team who touched the ball last so the ball goes to the team of the injured green player. Should the referee ask that green player to play the ball back to the blue keeper? I don't like this but I've seen it done twice. I don't mind if the opponent plays it back to the keeper on his own or if his coach tells him/her to do it. I just don't like the referee telling him to do it. However, most younger players have no idea. Thoughts?
  10. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member

    Dec 8, 2005
    I don't have the LOTG in front of me, but is it "last touched" or "last played?"
  11. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    Jan 14, 2019
    United States
    I was wondering the same and looked it up... it's actually "last touched".
  12. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Atlanta United FC
    And – I think I asked this question before and never got an answer – is it last touched before we blew the whistle or before we decided to blow the whistle?
  13. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I would say that, like anything, when the referee decides, that's it. (Of course, that can give us a slight fudge factor, and we have to be careful about not being overly manipulative.)

    For me, I don't see trying to tell players what I think they should do. For better or worse (I think worse, but YMMV), a driver on the new DB standards was to get us and the players out of those who-should-do-what dilemmas--one team gets the ball and that is that. (If the players want to give the ball away, of course they can choose to do that.)
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  14. NOVA Ref

    NOVA Ref New Member

    Oct 21, 2019
    So from this website...https://www.the-ra.org/news/ifab-law-changes-2019-2020

    It says this...The current dropped ball procedure often leads to a ‘manufactured’ restart which is ‘exploited’ unfairly (e.g. kicking the ball out for a throw-in deep in the opponents’ half) or an aggressive confrontation. Returning the ball to the team that last played it restores what was ‘lost’ when play was stopped, except in the penalty area where it is simpler to return the ball to the goalkeeper. To prevent that team gaining an unfair advantage, all players of both teams, except the player receiving the ball, must be at least 4m (4.5 yds) away.

    This implies that the current law wants to (1) do away with "manufactured" restarts, which means the referee not telling the players what to do and to (2) drop the ball to the team that last "played" the ball. So in my explain would the team that kicked the ball and hit the opponent in the face get the dropped ball? Give the drop ball to the last team that "played" the ball makes more sense than giving it to the team that last "touched" the ball. Thoughts? Thanks
    voiceoflg repped this.
  15. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Last week, I had an upset coach over a drop ball. Down in the coach's team's attacking end, in the corner, almost. "Okay, guys, we've got a drop." Attacker backs up five yards, defender is right there. I drop it and the defender clears it up field. The coach, who is, unfortunately, right there, says, "Why'd you give it to them? We had possession!" "Coach, high school rule change this year. It's always a drop. Possession doesn't matter anymore." "So why did you tell my guy to back off???" "I didn't. He just backed off on his own." The coach rolls his eyes with disbelief. And we play on.
  16. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    We can go in circles about what makes the most sense. (And we have--this has been discussed before in this forum.) But Law 8 clearly says "one player of the team that last touched the ball."

    It doesn't matter what objective criteria you try to create, they aren't going to be the most fair option in every case. For example, what if that ball played by the kicker and hitting the opponent in the face was otherwise going straight to the GK or out of play--fair to give it back to him? The choices are an imperfect objective test (which we have) or a "god rule" that lets the referee decide what is fair--not sure refs really want that target on their backs.
  17. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The current NFHS drop ball rule is what the IFAB LOTG were prior to 2019-2020.
  18. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    i had a HS BV last week with a drop where the player asked his opponent to just play it “back to our ‘keeper since we had it.” Opponent refused. He got leveled on the drop.
  19. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Weird one from the recert:

  20. MJ91

    MJ91 Member

    Jan 14, 2019
    United States
    #645 MJ91, Oct 23, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
    Did the test say the "Allow Play to Continue" answer is right or wrong? (I haven't re-certed for USSF yet.)

    EDIT: (somehow deleted this before posting)

    Assuming this is for USSF re-cert, I'd say:

    - Goal keeper takes goal kick.
    - Deflection off referee didn't change possession, go in goal, or create an immediate promising attack => keep playing.
    - Then the GK kicks it a second time before another PLAYER has touched it => IFK to attacking team where GK made 2nd touch.
  21. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    What do you think is weird? (I agree that C is not the correct answer.)
  22. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Chicago Fire
    I would guess the half cut off "D" IFK for opposing team where the GK played the ball a second time.
  23. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member

    Dec 8, 2005
    2nd and 3rd graders girls rec game. This league doesn't use ages but school grades. Blue player hurts her ankle passing the ball to a teammate who starts dribbling upfield. Two defenders close in on her and I see the injured player crying. So I blow the whistle and allow the sub.

    I explain for everyone to hear since blue was the last to play the ball (yes, I did not say touch. Not sure these parents would know the difference) the drop ball would go to blue. Black team parent said "Oh, now he's just making stuff up."

    Same game, Black keeper makes a save and Blue's coach tries to make a substitution. Just a hockey-style line change. I blow the whistle and explained I allow a sub at any stoppage, but a keeper save is not a stoppage. Blue coach disagreed, that play had stopped when the keeper caught the ball.
  24. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    WTF is the ref doing in the PA on a GK?
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  25. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Atlanta United FC
    Setting up a quiz question ...
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