2018 MLS Week 5 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by bhooks, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The assignments for Week 5 of the 2018 Major League Soccer season:

    03/30/2018

    Toronto FC v Real Salt Lake
    BMO Field (8PM ET)
    REF: ALLEN CHAPMAN
    AR1: MATTHEW NELSON
    AR2: JOE FLETCHER
    4TH: NIMA SAGHAFI
    VAR: GEOFF GAMBLE

    03/31/2018

    Orlando City v New York Red Bulls
    Orlando City Stadium (1PM ET)
    REF: JAIR MARRUFO
    AR1: KYLE ATKINS
    AR2: CAMERON BLANCHARD
    4TH: MARCOS DEOLIVEIRA
    VAR: TIMOTHY FORD

    Columbus Crew v Vancouver Whitecaps
    MAPFRE Stadium (3PM ET)
    REF: JOSE CARLOS RIVERO
    AR1: COREY PARKER
    AR2: ADAM WIENCKOWSKI
    4TH: HILARIO GRAJEDA
    VAR: RAMY TOUCHAN

    LA Galaxy v Los Angeles FC
    StubHub Center (3PM ET)
    REF: MARK GEIGER
    AR1: FRANK ANDERSON
    AR2: JEFFREY HOSKING
    4TH: DANIEL RADFORD
    VAR: KEVIN STOTT

    Chicago Fire v Portland Timbers
    Toyota Park (6PM ET)
    REF: DREW FISCHER
    AR1: COREY ROCKWELL
    AR2: JEREMY KIESO
    4TH: RUBIEL VAZQUEZ
    VAR: ALAN KELLY

    Minnesota United v Atlanta United
    TCF Bank Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: CHRISTOPHER PENSO
    AR1: BRIAN DUNN
    AR2: NICK URANGA
    4TH: NIMA SAGHAFI
    VAR: SILVIU PETRESCU

    San Jose Earthquakes v New York City FC
    Avaya Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: ARMANDO VILLARREAL
    AR1: IAN ANDERSON
    AR2: BRIAN POESCHEL
    4TH: ALEJANDRO MARISCAL
    VAR: YOUNES MARRAKCHI

    Houston Dynamo v New England Revolution
    BBVA Compass Stadium (8:30PM ET)
    REF: SORIN STOICA
    AR1: ADAM GARNER
    AR2: JASON WHITE
    4TH: GUIDO GONZALES JR
    VAR: RICARDO SALAZAR

    Sporting Kansas City v D.C. United
    Children’s Mercy Park (8:30PM ET)
    REF: BALDOMERO TOLEDO
    AR1: APOLINAR MARISCAL
    AR2: PETER MANIKOWSKI
    4TH: TED UNKEL
    VAR: JORGE GONZALEZ

    Colorado Rapids v Philadephia Union
    Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (9PM ET)
    REF: ROBERT SIBIGA
    AR1: ERIC WEISBROD
    AR2: JEFFREY GREESON
    4TH: FOTIS BAZAKOS
    VAR: KEVIN TERRY JR

    Seattle Sounders v Montreal Impact
    CenturyLink Field (10PM ET)
    REF: ISMAIL ELFATH
    AR1: KATHRYN NESBITT
    AR2: JEREMY HANSON
    4TH: DAVID GANTAR
    VAR: EDVIN JURISEVIC
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A couple of the referees who hadn't cleared fitness did so several days ago, and will be seen starting in Week 8.

    Several other referees either failed a re-take or have not yet attempted a re-take. So a couple familiar on-field names are going to remain in the VAR role for the foreseeable future.
     
  3. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Marky Mark with the LA Match. Should be an interesting match considering how LA FC has been playing.
     
  4. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Game counts for this week's referees and assistant referees:

    TOR vs RSL: A Chapman - 112th [M Nelson - 91st, J Fletcher - 92nd]
    ORL vs NYR: J Marrufo - 225th [K Atkins - 53rd, Blanchard - 43rd]
    CLB vs VAN: J C Rivero - 94th [Parker - 138th, Wienckowski - 192nd]
    LAG vs LAFC: M Geiger - 176th [F Anderson - 201st, J Hosking - 122nd]
    CHI vs POR: D Fischer - 83rd [C Rockwell - 228th, J Kieso - 2nd]
    MIN vs ATL: C Penso - 126th [B Dunn - 96th, N Uranga - 25th]
    SJ vs NYC: A Villarreal - 93rd [I Anderson - 184th, B Poeschel - 122nd]
    HOU vs NE: S Stoica - 73rd [A Garner - 140th, J White - 61st]
    SKC vs DC: B Toledo - 247th [Ap Mariscal - 46th, P Manikowski - 183rd]
    COL vs PHI: R Sibiga - 50th [E Weisbrod - 64th, J Greeson - 36th]
    SEA vs MTL: I Elfath - 107th [K Nesbitt - 36th, J Hanson - 100th]
     
  5. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Not at all surprising that he got that game lol. I’m guessing he hands out 4-7 cards.
     
  6. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    That's a fair estimate to any MLS game no? LoL
    I'd be impressed if you could give how many per a team :D
     
  7. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Sure. Three for LAFC. Four for LA Galaxy. And one of those four will be a red card. ;)
     
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  8. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You missed something important in the assignments ;)
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Help me out. The only notable things I see this week is that Kieso has his first like this year after having a trial spot last year and Marrackhi is now certified as a VAR, when I don’t think he previously was. Neither seems too important, though.
     
  10. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Check the 4th assignments again. One of your predictions came true (even though I already knew it had when you said it a few weeks ago).
     
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  11. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    I must be seeing things. It looked like a Toronto player kicked at a RSL player while the RSL player was on the ground next to the goal. Happened in the 55th minute.
     
  12. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    I agree, and it looked (one the one replay they showed), like the RSL player also did a bit of a kickout as they went over the goal line beside the post.

    There were a few things in that game that I felt Chapman missed (going both ways), but that was the most egregious of the bunch.

    Also, the first penalty? The angles shown were all terrible. It's impossible to tell from any of those angles if the ball struck shoulder or arm, but I lean toward a shoulder strike based on what was shown.
     
  13. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Couldn’t agree more. The first penalty was impossible to tell.

    On another note, I find it amusing how much Jozy Altidore embellishes contact when he is always the biggest player on the field.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Remember that 55:xx is the 56th minute. I went looking on MLS Live in the 54:xx range when you wrote this, so just a friendly reminder for your reporting.

    Right. So what do people want the referee to do there? We're either talking two red cards or nothing.

    You thought an incident where it looks like two slight kick outs and then both players go on their way is "egregious?" You guys got to spell this out. Do you want Chapman stopping the game and sending off two players for this? Do you want him to send off only the Toronto player? What's the proper call here in your eyes?

    Also, I thought both penalty calls were fantastic. The handling is exactly what is being taught now in the penalty area. The hand came down on the slide tackle, took away space--the passing lane, in fact--and there seems no doubt that the ball upper arm, even if it got part of the shoulder. On the second one, the defender is doing nothing but play the man.

    While I am somewhat sympathetic to this point, remember also that if he doesn't go down, he often doesn't get the penalty. Referees don't like to admit it (though Clattenburg did this season on television) but it's a reality. So Altidore will often get punished for his size if he fights through a clear foul. Some of his embellishment is over-the-top, but at the same time defenders think they can do things like they did last night with the second penalty and get away with it, precisely because they do just enough to inconvenience Altidore rather than bring him fully down. So it cuts both ways.
     
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  15. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    In my eyes, the RSL player should have gotten a red because the first kick out was pretty forceful and he kicked out AGAIN a few seconds later. The TFC player’s “kick” had so little force behind it that I think it should have been a YC for him.

    The first penalty was hard to see, but I was leaning toward a penalty. I once watched a video where former FIFA referee Esse Barmahast (Sry if I got the name wrong) was instructing U.S. referees on how to deal with this situation. He said that when a defender goes into a slide with his arm bracing himself against the ground, and the ball hits it, to award the penalty because the defender knew the risk he was taking.
     
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Completely missed an obvious offside on the Galaxy winner. Or does Zlatan handle all reviews of Zlatan?
     
  17. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    I've got onside. His foot or right knee cap is going to be the closest thing to the goal line. Unlike England, MLS VARs don't get the lines on the screen.
     
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  18. me116

    me116 Member

    Aug 25, 2017
    One word I definitely wouldn't use to describe that situation would be "obvious." At most, Ibrahimovic was offside by less than a foot, but despite offside being a (relatively) objective call, this certainly would not pass the "clear and obvious" test. I tend to give the VAR the benefit of the doubt in situations like these, as they have more angles than just the ones shown on the broadcast.
     
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  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The screenshot above made me realize it was a lot closer than it was. Agreed, this is probably a good non-review.
     
  20. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now this is a camera angle to use.

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Houston Dynamo v. New England Revolution?
     
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  22. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks even with the ball to me. Sure not enough to call or even overturn with VAR.
     
  23. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I think you were off by 6 cards. With the lone card I seeing as purely procedural.

    From a pure specatator standpoint that LAFC v. galaxy match has been one of the most entertaining MLS games I have seen. The match had very little misconduct. I can see this reverse fixture being a certain derby match.
     
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  24. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    Haha yeah you’re right. I thought it would be a very dirty match but I’m glad I was wrong. That was a fantastic match.
     
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  25. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    impossible to tell anything from an angle like that
     

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