2018 MLS Week 23 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by code1390, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    08/04/2018

    Atlanta United v Toronto FC
    Mercedez-Benz Stadium (4PM ET)
    REF: Armando Villarreal
    AR1: Kyle Atkins
    AR2: Cameron Blanchard
    4TH: Marcos Deoliveira
    VAR: Guido Gonzales

    Montreal Impact v D.C. United
    Stade Saputo (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Ismail Elfath
    AR1: Adam Garner
    AR2: Brian Dunn
    4TH: Nima Saghafi
    VAR: Yusri Rudolf

    Orlando City v New England Revolution
    Orlando City Stadium (7:30PM ET)
    REF: Chico Grajeda
    AR1: Logan Brown
    AR2: Andrew Bigelow
    4TH: Rosendo Mendoza
    VAR: Rubiel Vazquez

    FC Dallas v San Jose Earthquakes
    Toyota Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Dave Gantar
    AR1: Frank Anderson
    AR2: Nick Uranga
    4TH: Silviu Petrescu
    VAR: Ramy Touchan

    Minnesota United v Seattle Sounders
    TCF Bank Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: Drew Fischer
    AR1: Joe Fletcher
    AR2: Felisha Mariscal
    4TH: Joseph Dickerson
    VAR: Katja Koroleva

    New York City FC v Vancouver Whitecaps
    Yankee Stadium (8PM ET)
    REF: JC Rivero
    AR1: Brian Poeschel
    AR2: Jose Da Silva
    4TH: Tim Ford
    VAR: Mark Geiger

    Colorado Rapids v LA Galaxy
    Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (9PM ET)
    REF: Sorin Stoica
    AR1: Ian Anderson
    AR2: Danny Thornberry
    4TH: Victor Rivas
    VAR: Younes Marrakchi

    Houston Dynamo v Sporting Kansas City
    BBVA Compass Stadium (9PM ET)
    REF: Christopher Penso
    AR1: Apolinar Mariscal
    AR2: Mike Rottersman
    4TH: Alejandro Mariscal
    VAR: Daniel Radford

    Real Salt Lake v Chicago Fire
    Rio Tinto Stadium (10PM ET)
    REF: Kevin Stott
    AR1: Jeffrey Greeson
    AR2: Gjovalin Bori
    4TH: Malik Badawi
    VAR: Kevin Terry Jr.

    Portland Timbers v Philadelphia Union
    Providence Park (11PM ET)
    REF: Alan Kelly
    AR1: Matthew Nelson
    AR2: Jeremy Hanson
    4TH: Farhad Dadkho
    VAR: Alex Chilowicz

    08/05/2018

    New York Red Bulls v Los Angeles FC
    Red Bull Arena (6PM ET)
    REF: Allen Chapman
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Jeremy Kieso
    4TH: Mark Geiger
    VAR: Jorge Gonzalez

    Geiger returns with a local 4th official before having the whistle next Tuesday between Real Madrid and Roma in New Jersey.
     
  2. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe that's the first VAR assignment for Radford. I wonder if he'll transition to that when he's tired of fourths.
     
  3. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Can I ask a Grade 8 question here? (Did the field work today -- classroom session is tomorrow. Got a 96 on a practice test. Did worse on some the AReferee.com tests with questions like "A substituted player is not not throwing the ball at a opponent when he runs onto the field and also trips him. A dog then eats the ball. What is the appropriate restart?")

    Anyway -- the question is on the PK in the Atlanta game in which the Toronto keeper (Bono) brought down the Atlanta attacker. So why was that not a DOGSO red?

    Checking the four Ds ...

    - Direction: The ball, the attacker and the defender were all in front of the goal between the posts. No real direction question.

    - Defenders: Not in the vicinity.

    - Distance to goal: This was in the goal area.

    - Distance to ball: This is where it might be trickiest. Perhaps the ref was thinking the attacker wouldn't have gotten to it?

    I wasn't able to find a clip.
     
  4. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was DOGSO yellow.

    It was DOGSO in the penalty area but the GK attempted to play the ball. So it's a PK and yellow since 2016.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  5. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Of course, there's a question of whether it should have been a foul, but if it's called, yellow is appropriate.
     
  6. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well ITOOTR(AVAR)...
     
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like Elfath, but Villarreal looks like the guy to follow in Geiger's footsteps at the international level. I guess the next 4 to 8 years will tell us.
     
  8. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let me tell you how much I liked the red card to Fuyenmayor.

    I liked it. I liked it a lot.
     
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  9. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll take excessive force for 1000, Alex.
     
  10. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, Jair Benitez (DAL) got sent against Houston for a similar foul years ago. Don't recall any complaining from the Dynamo fans on THAT one!
     
  11. Ghastly Officiating

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Oct 12, 2017
    Well tough situation in Houston to end the game.
     
  12. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Appeared that he gave the 3rd red without an OFR because the fans were throwing things at him when he approached the monitor. I suspect an "undisclosed" fine will be heading Houston's way.
     
  13. Mirepo

    Mirepo Member

    Nov 3, 2016
    Probably a $5K fine, no further punishment or games missed for any of the people who were sent off, and a worded statement about how this behavior isn't tolerated.
     
  14. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or a complete reversal of all the cards and a statement from PRO saying their refs made a mistake. I’m just going with recent trends.
     
  15. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’d love to see MLS or US Soccer make Houston play its next home game in an empty stadium, but that would mean publicly backing its officials. We all know that won’t happen.
     
    ChelseaSounder repped this.
  16. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thoughts on this yellow card in Orlando yesterday? It seems a pretty clear cut DOGSO to me, especially when you freeze frame the moment the foul began.

    https://i.imgur.com/xtIFAgN.mp4
     
  17. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Maybe not, because another defender is gaining?

    Incidentally, for those who were pushing me to go ahead and take up the whistle myself -- I made 100 on my Grade 8 exam today. Even the question about the corner kick that travels the length of the field and rolls into the kicking team's goal.
     
  18. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    I agree it should have been red and don't know why it wasn't.
     
  19. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    I know others have chimed in that DOGSO Yellow is the correct call, but I wanted to elaborate. For a regular defender, basically any play with the arms (pushing, pulling, etc) is a DOGSO Red but because a keeper can legally use his arms, those are not applicable when making an attempt to slide tackle and play the ball. Of course, a keeper could be sent off for a DOGSO Bear Hug, but more likely it's going to be a play like this one which should be a yellow.
     
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  20. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nicely done. I had several 99s. Never a perfect score.
     
    Ismitje repped this.
  21. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just to clarify, that is not remotely anywhere in the LOTG. Not that I necessarily disagree with you in spirit and application.
     
  22. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    For a bit more clarity, I think that what @rh89 is trying to say is that if a GK dives at an opponent's feet with their hands and misses the ball, but trips up the player...

    This is still a trip, not a hold.
     
  23. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd


    Start watching at the 2:00 minute mark. I think we almost had our first goal disallowed due to a missed penalty kick decision on the other end via VAR.

    Only due to some inexplicably bad finishing we didn't.

    There was no real way to prevent this as the counter attack happened so fast that there is no way for the VAR to review this fast enough to get the referee to stop play.

    I'm just pointing this out, because it again shows just how lucky FIFA got that something like this didn't happen at the World Cup.
     
  24. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    How many red cards for violent conduct were given via VAR this weekend in MLS? Three or four?

    Yet there wasn't one in 64 games at the World Cup. Paying attention to MLS after the World Cup just shows you the chasm between use of VAR in the World Cup and MLS. It is so drastic.
     
    Ismitje repped this.
  25. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or it shows the type of conduct the players show when in the two different venues.
     

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