2018 MLS Week 16 Referee Discussion

That's great to see. I never met him when I was there, but I'm glad to see another MN referee make it to the big leagues.

 

A really interesting use of VAR in Colorado. A high foot leads to studs grazing the face of a Colorado player. Rivero calls the foul and no misconduct is given. Colorado is not complaining about the lack of a card and appears to be in a position to take the FK fairly quickly. However, two substitutes are ready to enter the match which prevents play from restarting. After a minute or so, the subs have happened and then JCR gives the VAR signal. The OFR confirms SFP and the Chicago player is sent off.

I suspect if the subs were not ready to go that play restarts without the VAR having the opportunity to have the restart held. It also raises the issue again of "what happens if the player is subbed before VAR alerts the referee of a check?"

 

My point is if the subs weren't ready to go Colorado may take a quick FK there. No one on the field suspected SFP and I doubt the VAR would have been quick enough to stop a quick free kick.

I'm not saying anything was mishandled. I'm just pointing out a very strange scenario where SFP could have been missed and not reviewed because of a quick restart if it wasn't for subs waiting.

 

I need to look at this but after a potential disaster last year, PRO has made it clear to not allow substitutions while a VAR check is happening or possible. It will prevent the disaster if the need for a check is immediately clear. But if it takes awhile to become cognizant of an off-the-ball VC, then no one really has the answer.

 

Again, I need to look. But you’d be surprised how quickly most VARs are able to say “delay delay delay,” which is the justification a CR needs to hold everything up.

That said, some VARs are slower than others. If all this sticks around, 5 years from now we will be laughing at how primitive all these practices were and how bad some people were at them. We are learning to fly the plane as it gets built.

 

I don't think Rivero considered a check to be possible there. The player who he eventually sent off was already on a yellow too. Not a single Colorado player even raised their hand asking for a 2nd yellow much less a straight red. I'm curious to see your full thoughts after you watch it.

EDIT: I saw your latest post. Still curious to see your opinion when you get around to watching it.

 

Just watched the highlight on the MLS app, which leaves a lot to be desired and does not allow for any analysis of the stoppage.

I will say they I don’t think that qualifies as clearly wrong. Red is desirable when we are all sitting in. a hotel conference room. But do 90% of people who view they clip think it had to be red? Is that a clear red in MLS Cup if it happens in the 10th minute? These are the sort of questions that need to be asked. Because VR should lead to objectivity. And I can’t accept the idea that the challenge in question—one which the aggrieved team didn’t really notice—needs to be red in all MLS matches.

 

1) That's a PK.

2) He's on but a good flash lag example at full speed.

3) I went yellow. I will note that this did have an on field review with Villareal staying with his original decision of a yellow.

 

Really? He kicked him in the calf with just about the same force he was trying to use to clear a ball out of his penalty area. Nothing about that screams "trifling" to me--don't be fooled by the slo-mo.

The bigger question, at least if we're talking about potential VAR intervention, is whether or not the existence of VR has changed expectations. Because this is the kind of foul that usually gets missed or excused because they were both going for the ball, there was no real attacking opportunity, and players just don't expect the penalty. So if a penalty isn't expected, is the "no penalty" decision clearly wrong? Or is the clearly wrong standard for intervention simply about the existence of the foul or not? I still think that isn't sorted out and isn't close to being sorted out. And that's a problem.

EDIT to say I agree with your other two conclusions. Offside isn't close and though I prefer red, there's been a movement toward erring on yellow when challenges like these are low to the ground. I think it's a dangerous trend, but it is what it is.