2018 HOT Seat

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by spykemanne, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. SuperSoccer1978

    Barcelona
    Nov 24, 2011
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Well if Syracuse need someone with an extensive international recruiting background, who's name(s) would people throw out there??
     
  2. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This probably seems like an odd name to throw out but the first person that I thought of was Stuart Gore, associate head coach at James Madison. Here is his bio from the James Madison website:

    https://jmusports.com/coaches.aspx?rc=2796&path=wsoc

    While he doesn't have a lot of D1 experience, he has extensive experience with recruiting internationally and, I feel, was one of the primary reasons that James Madison hired him away from the University of Northwest Ohio. What's that? The University of Northwest Ohio? UNOH, as they call it, is a school in the middle of farmlands and has, among its collegiate athletic teams, drag racing and stock car racing. The women's soccer team competes in NAIA and while Gore was the head coach there, were quite successful. Over his last three years the NAIA finalists two times and champions one time.

    The rosters of UNOH over the last 3 years are hereband will give you an idea of how well Gore recruits internationally:

    http://www.unohracers.com/roster/14/20.php
    http://www.unohracers.com/roster/15/20.php
    http://www.unohracers.com/roster/16/20.php

    The last roster was from this past year when Gore was at JMU but was composed of his recruits.

    I don't know how Gore's success at the NAIA level would translate to D1 or if he would still be able to recruit as he did while at UNOH, but it is hard to imagine that he would hurt the Syracuse program.
     
  3. outsiderview

    outsiderview Member

    Oct 1, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The good news is they are only getting 3 feet of snow this week and -25 degree weather, so maybe that will help draw some interest from some coaches.
     
  4. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #1029 PlaySimple, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    A correction to my above post. I'm doing it here because I couldn't edit it.

    The school that Gore was at prior to JMU was the university of Northwestern Ohio and not the University of Northwest Ohio.

    If Gore was able to attract international recruits to a little NAIA school that not many people have ever heard of, that is located in Midwestern farm town of Lima, Ohio, where it happens to be about -15°F today, he might be able to attract international players to a well known school in New York. Not only is Lima routinely very cold and windy in the winter, it's hot and humid in the summer.
     
  5. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    #1030 SoccerTrustee, Jan 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    Someone can win at Syracuse. Like anywhere else it just takes the right person. If it’s someone who is a good coach (obviously) and can get good American kids and and a few stud international players then that could be good enough to make the Tournament, which is a decent expectation. Syracuse is #19 in the Directors Cup right now, which means they are a strong Power 5 athletics program and that’s before the basketballs and lacrosses added in. A lot of sports there are pretty successful (including men’s soccer, lacrosses, and field hockey), and it just takes the right person to come in and do that for women’s soccer. ACC and national championships are a bit far fetched but winning seasons and making the Tournament are realistic.

    Yes they have some obstacles, specifically location and not having recent success ever since April Kater left in 2004. They can find the right fit to overcome that. It’s proven that other sports can win there. And stop this nonsense of northern weather. It's -28 today in Minnesota and their women's soccer team went to the Sweet 16. Wisconsin also went to the Sweet 16. Notre Dame has won national championships. In New England we have Boston College, UConn, and BU. Morgantown has has no local talent and it is the armpit of America so WVU gets Canadians and goes elsewhere and somehow makes it work. Sweden, Norway, and Iceland do well at the international level. If you have facilities you can overcome that and last I heard Syracuse has a pretty well known dome and other indoor areas.

    But I do agree that this may be the worst hire process ever. What is that administration doing. No way a hire should take this long. That is on the admins there. If they want a female hire go ahead and hire the female assistant there as her resume is stronger than any other female candidate left at this point. Or a male who can coach and get internationals. Seemed to have worked for Simon Riddough, Paul Royal, and Ian Stone.
     
  6. Cantcoach

    Cantcoach Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Dec 29, 2017
    Wheddon is a dick and they hired him so maybe that’s what they want!
     
  7. Wildcatter

    Wildcatter Member

    Sep 9, 2018
    I just think its awesome that Wheddon was able to find a new job before Syracuse was able to replace him
     
    outsiderview repped this.
  8. Footyballs

    Footyballs New Member

    Barcelona
    United States Virgin Islands
    Dec 19, 2018
    I wish I had popcorn to read all the interesting posts about Syracuse and how they can't win in the cold there, how they can, and that they should hire a successful former NAIA coach with no big level experience. My one cent, cold doesn't effect the schools success barrier very much, New York is a popular state, internationals and even great domestic players will go there IF the program has a good draw. A leader with a vision and some success or plan thats viable for success. Yes everyone loves the warm California and Florida weather, but the only top 25 successful teams don't all hail from warm weather places as Soccer Trustee astutely pointed out.

    On to hiring hiring an NAIA successful coach as Play Simple is putting in his best repeated plugs, I'm sure he was a great NAIA coach and recruiter, but the ACC isn't just a normal D1 conference, its the mothership of all conferences in soccer winning roughly 30 out of the 39 or so Division 1 national championships. To throw a fast swimming minnow into a sharks tank and expect him to be able to thrive, no offense, its impractical. You have to have a background of success to lure the better players in. Saying, well look at what I've done at the NAIA level won't go far to impress many of the players, their parents, nor their club coaches you have to sell on advising their kids to go there. Regardless of who they hire there, it'd take a miracle worker to get Syracuse even competitive in the next three years. I feel bad for their current players and recruits, not having leadership at the helm or hope for their future, helpless feeling dragging it out this long when you have to have over 100 applicants easily for the position. If not considering qualified males when apparently there isn't enough female qualified interest, at some point is there a gender discrimination suit that can be brought against them for excluding qualified candidates on the grounds of gender? That has to be coming into play in some of these hirings recently when overlooking males for jobs who have double the success for preferences.

    Last but not least, the assistant coach at Syracuse was part of the problem. She recruited the current kids, didn't work. She had half of the brainstorming. If they stick with a failed coach, not going to change anything. At this point though if not considering males, sure, go ahead, appoint her to interim for a year as its her team she recruited, let her swim in it, then re-open again another debacle of hiring process again in 10 months. :)
     
  9. WACySOCCERWORLD

    Jan 28, 2014
    Where?
     
  10. USsoccerguy

    USsoccerguy Member

    Feb 5, 2009
    Club:
    Gamba Osaka
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. allovercollegesoccer

    Dec 12, 2014
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Does that mean Becky Burleigh is a fast swimming minnow??? Because do you remember what level and school she was coaching at before becoming the Florida Coach????
     
  12. allovercollegesoccer

    Dec 12, 2014
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    FootyBalls, I looked more into the rosters that PlaySimple provided. Did you know a former player from that NAIA school was a D1 2nd team All-American this past season.........just saying!
     
  13. Enzo the Prince

    Sep 9, 2007
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    At Syracuse, women's basketball, women's ice hockey, women's track and field, women's lacrosse, women's rowing, women's tennis, and women's volleyball, and (until recently) women's soccer are all coached by men. There are 2 female head coaches out of 15 in the athletic department. I think you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that men have been unfairly excluded by the Syracuse Athletic Department. They are vulnerable to lawsuits claiming the opposite, if anything, and are clearly and understandably eager to redress the balance.
     
    ytrs repped this.
  14. allovercollegesoccer

    Dec 12, 2014
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Agreed, Syracuse are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Hire a young female coach that can't turn the ship around at all and get criticized or hire a male coach and get criticized.
     
  15. Lord Kril

    Lord Kril Member

    Pittsburgh Riverhounds
    Jul 3, 2018
    Or maybe a recycled, recently jobless, journeywoman.
     
  16. Holmes12

    Holmes12 Member

    May 15, 2016
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Hey, Footy. Thanks for taking the time to read all the input in this thread. I kinda disagree, the school is the draw in women's soccer.
     
  17. Footyballs

    Footyballs New Member

    Barcelona
    United States Virgin Islands
    Dec 19, 2018
    Lol, well at least I got some responses churning. In trying to address comments that responded regarding Syracuse being prone t lawsuit for not hiring a female, that is implausible especially since all they've been trying to look for is qualified female coaches to take over there in that death trap, and I've been told by a friend at least two females have already turned it down, if not more in the past few months. So they are out of qualified options from their first pool of candidates and had to reshuffle and search, yes search for more options to reach out to who didn't apply and see if there was any interest. It was hinted that still didn't churn up many results. If no one that fits the bill that can hack it, then can't be sued for not trying. Now its so late, I doubt they'll find a qualified male candidate either willing to sacrifice three to four years of their career at the bottom before they get axed. Its an uphill battle.

    I was not aware the Florida Gators coach was NAIA back n the early 90's, 93 her last year at NAIA before getting the call up to D-1. Kudos for her and not taking anything away from her. But in the early 90's women's soccer was a very different beast than it is now almost 30 years later. There were less than 150 teams to 190 at most by end of 90's, very little money for both coaching pay, scholarships, and competition. UNC and ACC won almost every year in the 90's, 8 out of 10 years Tarheels were champs. Other teams started to catch them though near late 90's and now there's a lot of parity in the top 30 all having talent. Again, I'm happy she did well. I think today not having the caliber of recruits jumping from NAIA to D-1 as head coach, its a rarity for success because it takes a few years to build up that recruiting pool especially since the major D-1's recruit 2 to 3 years in advance now. So they'd be behind the 8 ball instantly.

    The school being the draw for women's soccer... yes thats a factor for some. But not so much important for others. The school I coach at isn't considered high profile, strong academically, and kind of run down... But the soccer team consistently wins and thats what draws our players in who had never heard of our university before recruitment most times, and then go there because they want to be a part of a successful team. Just saying, the name of the school itself isn't always the draw, but the history of success for the team, and sometimes draw of the coach.

    I've talked too much already in the feed. But if looking to promote a quality recruiter from big program and assistant coach that has paid their dues and could lead a power 5 team and do well, I think if they don't find anyone they should consider the Oregon Ducks assistant Manny. He's a great guy, down to earth, his players love how humble and knowledgable about the game he is, and he has improved every program he's been a part of within two to three years time. I'm sure everyone could throw out a name of good candidate though, so.. goodnight. I'm off this board for awhile.
     
  18. SuperSoccer1978

    Barcelona
    Nov 24, 2011
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    So I did some research into the northwest ohio team. I didn't realize Gore started the program in 2013 and did all that extremely quickly.
    But looking into the back ground of some of the players on his roster over the years its very impressive. Honestly many of those players would grace any team in the top 25 in my opinion. So keeping with FootyBalls fish analogy, I think Gore could possible be described as a shark that's been in a fish tank.

    Cahynova, currently starts for top German team Turbine Potsdam and full Czech Republic national team.

    Ruohomaa, plays for HJK who finished 2nd in the top Finish league and has been involved in the Finland National Team set up.

    Blanchard, won the Under 17 World Cup with France in 2012.

    Moodaly, a two time Olympian for South Africa in London 2012 and Rio 2016.

    Condon, a UEFA Under 19 championship winner with France in 2016 and a Under 20 World Cup runner-up the same year.

    Sevecke, starter for the best team in Denmark (Brondby) and also for the full Denmark national team.
     
  19. Footyballs

    Footyballs New Member

    Barcelona
    United States Virgin Islands
    Dec 19, 2018
    Lindsey Wilson was also a dominant team and could beat a good number of D-1 teams in their prime 5 years ago, with 90 percent of their roster foreign players and youth national team members. Some of the fully funded NA1A teams have talent who aren't eligible for D1 programs whether it be test scores, 5 year time clock or other. So good points.
     
    outsiderview repped this.
  20. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I didn't mention that Syracuse "should hire a successful former NAIA coach." My post was in response to SuperSoccer1978's post:

    SuperSoccer's post was in response to a post that Westcoastbias wrote:

    I know a lot about the men's and women's soccer community at all levels and conferences. SS1978 asked the simple question of "if Syracuse need someone with an extensive international recruiting background, who's name(s) would people throw out there??" Since the inception of the soccer program at the University of Northwestern Ohio, Stuart Gore has been the head coach. He was the head coach at the UNOH up until this year when he took the associate head coach position at James Madison University. Here is an incomplete list of countries that have been represented on UNOH rosters since the inception of the women's soccer program:

    England, Sweden, Australia, Germany, Reunion Island, New Zealand, Iceland, Ghana, Croatia, Spain, Norway, Wales, Finland, Bulgaria, South Africa, Czech Republic, Colombia, Curacao, Brazil, France, and others.

    That seems like a list of a lot of international players, wouldn't you agree, Footyballs?

    If you had bothered to read the entirety of my post you would have also noted that I wrote "I don't know how Gore's success at the NAIA level would translate to D1 or if he would still be able to recruit as he did while at UNOH...."

    As to your comment of "On to hiring hiring an NAIA successful coach as Play Simple is putting in his best repeated plugs."

    "best repeated plugs"? Umm....Ok.....if you say so. I guess that the two posts that I made constitutes "best repeated plugs." :rolleyes:

    My post is merely conjecture and for the point of discussion. After all, isn't this a forum for discussion. Regardless, my opinion and statement is inconsequential because Gore isn't going to leave the JMU associate HC postiton after one season anyway. More than likely JMU brought him in an attempt to boost the school's international recruting profile. It will be interesting to look at the composition of JMU's roster over the net few years. Gore is young, though. In 2001 he was a member of the U18 team in England. That would put his age at 35ish now. While it is silly to firmly believe that he would be able to take over a program like Syracuse today, the possibility in the future is very realistic.

    Instead of criticizing the opinions of others here, Footyballs, why don't you make some of your own suggestions? You seem to be a very wise person. Let's hear it.

    International recruiting will become increasingly important in collegiate soccer in the years to come because our youth system is largely failing. The clubs and coaches in the States are not doing an adequate job of developing talent and there is too much potential talent that is not even being seen. A lot of those kids never get the opportunity to play because of the lack of resources to play, no access to good training, or whatever. Coaches like Gore, with international connections, will be in more demand in the coming years. Men's NCAA soccer is composed of a lot more international players compared to the women's game and the women's game is beginning to change and will change a lot more over the next 10 years. Don't be surprised.

     
  21. L'orange

    L'orange Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Jul 20, 2017
    I wouldn't say the U.S. youth system is failing. On what do you base that claim? That we haven't dominated youth world cups recently? Eh, women's soccer has become a lot more competitive over the last 15 years. We're not going to win every tournament.

    Let's not pretend that every international player that comes to play for a college in America is automatically an upgrade over any American player--that isn't even remotely the case. If one is recruiting the top tier of youth players in, say, Europe, who have often been in a more intense development environment for several years, and played quasi-professionally in some cases, then, yea, they can be an upgrade. A number of them also are a year older than the class counterparts in America, which helps. If we see more internationals, and I suspect we will, it will be because of the success of FSU more than anything, IMO. Krikorian has taken teams loaded with internationals and won national titles, and that gets noticed.

    If development lags in America, it is because, IMO, there are simply a lot of options for kids in this country--lots of different sports to try, for example, which means that a player might come latish to soccer. There are just a lot more diversions, period, I think. In the rest of the world, soccer is THE sport, and a lot of youth players are immersed in soccer practically 24/7. In the end, just recruiting an international player is not automatically going to make a team better--it depends, in the ends, on the quality of the players, not matter where they come from.
     
  22. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True. If you look at the international transfer data for female professional players, the US has far more women playing elsewhere than any other country. For women, the US produces by far the biggest pool of high level players. The situation for men is different and isn't comparable.

    It is true, nonetheless, that looking for high level foreign players to come in is happening, and from anecdotes I'm guessing it's happening at an increasing level. But foreign women coming to US colleges to play women's soccer isn't going to be a game changer except in a very few situations. It can help in more than a few, but nowhere near as much as in men's soccer and some other sports.

    Sorry, maybe this is getting off topic.
     
  23. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    love your post. unfortunately it seems how you write something is more important than the gist of what you are trying to say. Your opinions align with mine on many levels, from Syracuse to our youth systems and what they are producing. I wish there was a place to talk about this constructively. Ive learned that the team posts have the most activity, but trying to talk about bigger issues there leads to arguments (understandable given the rooting interessts there). Tryihng to talk about it in the conference threads seems to have the same result

    It could be the way i phrase things, and that i accept, but my manner is pretty direct given the medium.

    The so called specialist publications are, like the youth clubs, motivated mostly by money because honesty is not really valued here yet. We have not needed to be honest because our advantages have led to success. Once/If honesty becomes a valued commodity, then real assessments of players, coaches and the youth system will be encouraged

    Until then, if Top Drawer soccer, PDA, Anson Dorrance or any other accepted authority can say whatever they want, even if its wildly contradictory and get away with it. They are not held accountable by the current system.

    As long as we measure success by W/L today at all levels, then we will struggle to keep pace with more forward thinking development
     
  24. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    No, I'm not basing my claim on the fact that we haven't dominated youth world cups recently. I'm basing my claim on what I have observed about soccer in the US on the whole - youth teams whether they be national teams, local teams, teams at national events such as the DA, ECNL, or lower levels. I'm also basing the claim on observations of collegiate teams, professional teams, and even our own USWNT.

    For the numbers of players that we have in this country and for the players that are supposedly receiving "high-level training", you would think that we could have some better players overall. I can watch play at any one of the levels I noted above and observe a lot of players that are lacking basic fundamental technical and tactical skills. Basic skills that should be perfunctory in nature. Skills like trapping the ball, first touch, dribbling, passing, and shooting, are lacking. This is happening even at the highest levels with our USWNT. For the amount of money and resources that are allotted to the game in the US, this is inexcusable, IMHO.

    Some of the dearth of development is a lack of initiative by the players at the youth level - to be a good player, a really good player, a good bit of time must be put in above and beyond what is received in training. However, I just can't help but believe that our system is failing somewhere along the line. ECNL and GDA players should be the best examples of youth players in the US and I just am not awed by much of what I see. Granted, there are a lot of good players but many more that are not good. That carries over to the collegiate game where there is just a lot of slop being played - just really bad and ugly soccer.

    I will give you this and your point is well taken and appreciated. There are many options for sports here. Additionally, with soccer being more ingrained in the cultures of other countries, it is more "natural" for them. To that point, the youth in other countries watch a lot more soccer than the youth in the US. That is very important because watching soccer is one of the most important things that a player can do in order to sharpen tactical development. Not nearly enough high level soccer is being watched by our youth and when it is being watched it is often the USWNT or NWSL - hardly the "high-level" that should be being watched. Our kids and developing players should be watching the EPL, Serie A, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc.

    All of that being said, there are, indeed, options in other countries and your argument can be a tired one that is often heard for what I see as an excuse for our lagging development. Let's look at the Netherlands for instance. Soccer is the most popular sport in Holland but the country also puts out many top cyclists and speed skaters. Field hockey is also a very popular sport. Look at Belgium. The Belgium men's soccer team is tremendous. The country also puts out a very large number of top cyclists, though. Winter sports are also very popular in a lot of Europe as is athletics (track & field), and competitive cross country running. So, with everything considered, soccer isn't THE sport in the rest of the world as you have said it is. It is, indeed, the most popular sport in most of the world but there are plenty of options so don't believe that soccer is the only sport being played outside of the United States.

    As mentioned, I believe that your argument is often used by people in the States to explain why we are lagging. At one time the argument would have been valid but I'm not buying it anymore. We are far enough along on the development curve in this country that we should be putting out more high-level players than what we are. The sport is no longer in its infancy in the States. I will grant that we have many good athletes here, men & women, that are probably playing other sports and would probably be tremendous soccer players. I was watching Julian Edelman in the Super Bowl the other night. The way that he could cut on a dime and the speed of his first step is incredible. Would that translate to soccer? Who knows? What about a guy like LeBron James? What if his athleticism were developed for soccer instead of hoops? He could have possibly been a great player. Then again, he probably could have excelled at a lot of different sports. The same with Kobe Bryant. Bryant actually played quite a bit of soccer growing up in Italy and apparently was a decent player. There are a lot of "what if" scenarios but those scenarios can pertain to athletes in other countries as well.

    Along with all of this, and it was a point I made in a different post, how many potential athletes are we "missing out on" in the States because the game isn't accessible or affordable to all? We will never know. I know that the affordability argument is also a tired one but I don't believe that athletes in other countries have the issue of affordability and accessibility that we have. I'm not suggesting that we should be seeing kids out on the streets using the head of a doll as a soccer ball as the stories depict the disadvantaged in other countries but I am suggesting that the game is more accessible elsewhere. that is an issue that may never be corrected in the United States.

    Lastly, because I have been writing long enough, we still have a lot more players in the US than many countries do or, at least, larger player pools than many countries. For the sheer numbers that we have that play soccer we should be getting better results. Consider little ol' Iceland. Iceland is a country with a population of less than 350,000. The men's national team of Iceland can play with our men's team at any time. Consider that - we have a population of 325 million or roughly 1000 x the population of Iceland.

    If you would rather consider an example from women's soccer, let's look at our USWNT. They are currently #1 in the FIFA rankings. Again, the population of the US is roughly 325 million. Following the US in the top 10 of the rankings is, in order, Germany, France, England, Canada, Australia, Netherlands, Japan, Sweden, and Brazil. Excluding Japan & Brazil, the US has a larger population than the other 7 countries combined. A good number of those countries are nipping at our heels as well.

    This topic is so far removed from the "hot seat" thread and should be elsewhere but I thought it appropriate to address your comments here, L'orange.
     
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