2018 FIFA World Cup - Last 16 : Japan vs Belgium

Discussion in 'Japan' started by Samurai Warrior, Jun 28, 2018.

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What result do you expect?

Poll closed Jul 2, 2018.
  1. Japan win

    8 vote(s)
    32.0%
  2. Belgium win

    14 vote(s)
    56.0%
  3. Japan win by PKs

    3 vote(s)
    12.0%
  4. Belgium win by PKs

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    I think either Nishino should stay or a Japanese coach would be more suitable. Having a Japanese coach makes communication more easier and there are lesser cultural barriers. Maybe Nishino for 2 years and then Moriyasu take over after the Olympics?
     
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  2. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    There are way too many games to pick. Where we were playing good football and on some occasions even world class football for the first 70 minutes and lose it at the end.

    2006 - 1-4 to Brazil
    2009 - 0-3 to Netherlands
    2010 - 1-2 to England
    2013 - 3-4 to Italy
    2014 - 1-2 to Ivory Coast
    2014 - 1-4 to Colombia
    2017 - 0-1 to Belgium
    2018 - 2-3 to Belgium

    All these games 60-70 minutes great football then to lose it and all while we're watching a completely exhausted set of 11 players. Also in common was that in all these games Japan played high intensity pressing "Japanese" football. I wonder if its our style of play and the players gassing themselves out. Or whether its the mentality only.

    But to hear Nishino in the post-match conference say that at 2-0 up, he wanted to get a 3rd....I mean cmon man.......This is against the best Belgian team in history......Why not learn that street smarts to put in another defensive player, shut up shop and hold out?
     
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  3. AKITOD

    AKITOD Member+

    Apr 5, 2007
    Hobart, Aust
    Club:
    JEF United Ichihara
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I want a Japanese speaking coach.
     
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  4. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Deflection from what exactly ?
    We lost, and it was bound to happen at this stage, chances are Brazil would've shamed Japan.
    It's already a success making it this far, and we weren't trashed 3-0 by Belgium, it was a match to remember.
    The goal is now to reach this stage again for the second time in a row which still hasn't happened, and possibly go past it. Winning is always nice but that would've been a huge upset, which is different.
     
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  5. Yojimbo

    Yojimbo Member

    Mar 8, 2007
    Norf London
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I dunno, going Dutch/German hasn't really gone well for S. Korea post-Hiddink.

    He wasn't perfect, but I hope Nishino stays.
     
  6. HomokHarcos

    HomokHarcos Member+

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not the fact they lost, it's that they blew a 2-0 second half lead.
     
  7. Essex

    Essex Member

    Jul 5, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Do you think Japan would have seen it out if that fluke goal hadn't happened?
     
  8. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    Because no one is talking about winning the World Cup, it's about holding a 2-0 lead with 20 minutes to play. No one was gonna get trashed by Belgium, it's one of the European teams they know well and recent history is rather beneficial.

    The whole "it's already a success" would have been sensible in the case of a decisive loss but yesterday was a massive choke and another missed opportunity. The World Cup is every four years, you can't keep thinking it will come one day, that it was a good learning experience, because, for all we know, they could pull a 2014 in four years. And with a new generation taking over, it's even more uncertain.

    You have to seize the opportunities when they present themselves and once again, they couldn't.
     
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  9. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Beneficial? Lol. Last time they lost and when they won it was 5 years ago.
    Recent history up to the world cup was so bad that despite the decent group stage, I wouldn't have excluded it at all (and indeed in the end we got 3 goals against).
    Wtf? In that case it would have been a disappointment lol. "Yes we advanced but then got destroyed", meaning that in the end it was just about a couple of yellow cards gone the right way.

    Lmao yes but now you're acting as if this team had any expectations whatsoever before the World Cup came, come on. You have to look at the context.
    And, they had to get up 2-0 in the first place. It's the first time they score a single goal in the knockout phase and they get into a situation where they can advance by winning the match. It's absolutely possible that in 4 years it could be another 2014, infact it will have to happen again (just look at the miserable performance of the previous world cup champions in all recent world cups).
    The regret is there, but, again, this team clearly overachieved given the embarassing slumps it's been in the last 4 years.
     
  10. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I don't entirely agree with this belief about Japanese players choking more often than others. Although I do believe that there is a strong belief within Japanese culture that not only is the endurance of hardship celebrated, but it is more accepted to lose with grace than win without it.

    I doubt many Japanese people would say it outright, but I think that deep down most of them would rather lose against Belgium going out the way they did, rather than win like Russia did against Spain.

    But yes, hardships are definitely more influential in Japanese culture than triumphs. Just compare the notoriety of the "Agony of Doha" with that of any other triumph in Japanese football. More people are familiar with that event than any of the Asian Cup triumphs or World Cup Round of 16 appearances.
     
  11. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    Narrow loss 1-0. 5 years ago, the Belgian team was extremely similar. No sign that it was going to be a trashing, nope.

    So you're disappointed when you didn't stand a chance, but you're happy when you could have won but didn't ... OK.

    I did, the context is 2-0 with 20 minutes to play. Anything that happened a month, three months, a year ago is completely irrelevant.
     
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  12. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Both under other coaches, with other players.

    I don't know, how did you feel when we were 4-1'd by South Korea ?
    Of course I'm disappointed when the team doesn't stand a chance lol.
    It's like you're forgetting that this "could have won" situation is something the players had created themselves during the match

    2-0 with 20 minutes to play is plenty to play, a team that has been shit for 4 years is likely not going to suddenly beat Belgium 2-0. The only team we beat in this world cup is Colombia in 10 in case you had forgotten before this match.
    It's disappointing, but it happens all the time on football even among top teams. I guess this is why the players on the pitch aren't irrelevant.
     
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  13. Essex

    Essex Member

    Jul 5, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Watching Sweden - Switzerland now painfully reminds me how aesthetically pleasing Japan were yesterday.
     
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  14. Kakeru

    Kakeru Member

    Manchester United
    Japan
    Feb 22, 2016
    Montréal, QC, Canada
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    And that is and will remain a major obstacle for Japan in the future unless they realize the need to change some mentalities on and off the pitch. In a game where style has been destroyed by pragmatism since 1982 with Italy defeating Brazil (Paolo Rossi) and then West Germany defeating France (Sevilla), it is a lesson that needs to be learned by any nation that aspires to become stronger and then win trophies.

    In football as in life, being a tragic hero brings you nothing in the end. It's a total fallacy to believe otherwise. In order to succeed, the Japanese NT needs to change its mindset like the French did in the end after years and decades of being the tragic heroes.
     
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  15. HomokHarcos

    HomokHarcos Member+

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hear people say before that Japan could be better with some gamemanship, but we can happy that they are often about fair play.
     
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  16. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    Yeah, if anything, we got better since that 0-1.

    How is that relevant ? Comparing a blowout loss to a rival of equal level at home to a match against a team of higher standing in the World Cup ? If Belgium beats us 2-0, there’s no shame.

    As for the rest of your post, o_O. 2-0, 20 minutes to play, with an opponent desperate to score and opening itself to counters more than if it had been just 1-0, with a good gestion you win 9 times out of 10. And you don’t end up throwing all your men on a corner kick at the last minute when you haven’t been able to catch a ball in the air. It was more than winnable and all the after game feel good BS just reinforces our perennial losing mentality.
     
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  17. Testator

    Testator Member

    Glasgow Celtic
    Croatia
    Sep 5, 2017
    Croatian coast
    No idea. Nishino was late with substitutions, and did not try to react to Fellaini with an extra CB. The longer Belgium stay at zero, the worse their nervousness would've progressed. Even at 2-2, their defense was leaky. 3-0 would've broken Belgium with no chance of mental recovery. 3-2 for Japan would've been deflating for the reds.
     
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  18. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    Japan will need better defenders to be like France and Italy first. Japan is playing now as it is not just because it is the preferred style but also it is one of the only few ways that Japan can possibly play.
    Japan simply cannot park the bus like Denmark, Russia does. Their players are taller and stronger, hence able to defend corners and set-pieces better. Also, they have better GKs as well imo( at least based on this WC only). Parking the bus is not as easy as it is, if not there will not be Barcelona 6-1 PSG.
    Japan tried to play passively against Cote D'ivoire after a goal up and it ended badly.
    Japan has shown to be able to be pragmatic based on Okada Japan in 2010 when it played very defensively.

    On another note tho, Japan should have won the match yesterday. The first goal whilst lucky for Belgium should have been saved. Kawashima has been pretty unstable this tournament as I have said before. Japan need to find better GKs in the WC if they want to reach the final 8.
     
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  19. HomokHarcos

    HomokHarcos Member+

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not upset about the decision to go for it at the end. The Japanese players were tiring and momentum was clearly on Belgium's side, it was just ridiculous that it got to that point in the first place.
     
  20. HomokHarcos

    HomokHarcos Member+

    Jul 2, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #270 HomokHarcos, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
    Okada Japan was the only time that Japan were good defensively at a World Cup, that's why 2010 is my favourite Japanese performance at the World Cup.
     
  21. KAPIJXM

    KAPIJXM Member+

    Nov 18, 2011
    Illa de Arousa,Spain
    Club:
    Celta de Vigo
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Well, it wasn't Sampaoli's fault, Kiyotake's baby son died in the middle of the season and he wasn't in the mood to do anything, he himself ask the team to leave it at December and come back to Japan to stay with his family.
     
  22. marten48

    marten48 Member

    Jun 2, 2012
    United States
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Choking is something very real in sports, but to me this wasn't a choke. Choking is when due to psychological pressure an athlete performs much worse than can be reasonably expected after you take into account his abilities and the variable of chance. Yes, mistakes were made, both by players (Kawashima for the first goal) and coaches (the third goal and poor substitutions), but the performance of the team on the whole wasn't disastrous at all (they still looked threatening in attack). In fact, until that last goal went in, a neutral probably would have given Japan as much a chance to win as Belgium.

    It's true that there's a Japanese mentality but I prefer to explain what happened more simply. They lost due to a combination of our mistakes, Belgian talent, and bad luck.
    1st goal: (Kawashima error, but he's error-prone, so it's expected + Belgian luck)
    2nd goal: (beaten by Fellaini battering ram tactic that has done the same to many a Premier League team, so no huge shame in that)
    3rd goal: (tactical error + Belgian talent)
     
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  23. Interiores

    Interiores Member

    BVB Dortmund
    Japan
    Jun 3, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Thats why i said a lot of factor played in his forgettable Sevilla stint.
    Sampaoli himself seems to rate Kiyo highly, but his difficulties with communicating in Spanish certainly becoming a problem for a strict tactician like Sampaoli who like to give a detailed task to his players regarding trigger of their movemnet which has an impact to the whole team's structure. Not to mention his difficult situation with his son's health.

    Nevertheless, i'd like someone with an approach like Sampaoli to take the helm. The style is just suitable for our pool of players. we've pretty good base in this World Cup with positional play based strategy, and we have to carry on with the momentum.
     
  24. Interiores

    Interiores Member

    BVB Dortmund
    Japan
    Jun 3, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nationality put aside, We could snatch Roger Schmidt from Beijing Guoan. Working with a dedicated and hardworking professional like majority of our player certainly more tempting than working with some clown in CSL. Other name i like including Jorge Sampaoli, Adi Hutter, Paulo Sousa, or Ralph Hasenhuttl.
     
  25. rougou

    rougou Member+

    Dec 7, 2003
    Hyogo
    Club:
    AS Roma
    I thought they were doing a good enough job until Drogba came in. Same with this game until Fellaini and Chadli came in.
    In both cases Japan's coach for whatever reason was unable to make a change to counter the opponent's changes. 2006 against Australia was similar as well.

    btw, Chadli also did us in last time assisting Lukaku's goal to give Belgium a 1-0 win if I remember correctly.
     
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