2018 FIFA WC QLF, AFC: Group B

lol 8-0! We dont want that to happen again
I dont hate them or dislike towards Arabs. As a matter of fact, I like Iraq and I think some other Arab nations who plays better football than Saudis would have a decent world cup the likes of Algeria, Egypt...
Asia will be embarrassed again for sure.
They still hold their position and the funny thing not yet been able to beat the big boys Australia and Japan, that's without mention the ref advantage, unfair to the rest of teams in particular Iraq for choosing Malaysia then played in their home soil... STINKS

 

Are they really back? They haven't had a signature win in qualifying (Wins against UAE have been the norm for Saudi even during the last 10 years) and have really rode their luck.

A win against UAE is all they need to qualify but I am less than convinced Palestine got a point off of them in qualifying and it could have very well been four points.

 

You might need to check your maths again. If all they get is a win against UAE it will probably not be enough to qualify (at least directly through group B). They also need something out of the Australia or Japan games.

 

KSA next 3 games scenario -

1 - Win against Australia and Draw or Win against UAE .
2- Draw Against Australia and Win against UAE and hope Australia drops points against Japan.
3- Loose Against Australia and Must win next 2 games against Japan and UAE and hope Australia drops points against Japan.
4- Draw against Australia and UAE and win against Japan and irrespective of result between Japan vs Australia..

So , KSA major qualification hope depends on there result against Australia and Australia vs Japan game..

 

What's the point you want to convey here..We won the games needed to be won and other teams dropped points where they did not have too so its not our fault and luck..Palestine game was a lay off as both teams were not interested to play for after the heated agreements we had with PFA before the match and hence settled for draw..

 

They have some point. Palestine nearly hold KSA in Dammam. Saudis were less impressive in second round.

 

First of all let's be very clear. Saudi Arabia asked for the home fixtures to be switched- which the PFA agreed to (on very short notice). Palestine had equalized to make it 2-2 late in the game and the referee added an extra minute of time and Saudi scored- I am not arguing the merits of that win- it was a less than impressive victory against a totally new team playing its first game under a new coach.

The return match was supposed to be played in October. You guys made a big fuss about it and FIFA even reported that you forfeited the game (only for your Crown Prince to get involved politically and threaten our funding).

More about that here and here.

The best chance of the 0-0 draw in Amman fell to Ashraf Nu'man- who missed a sitter. We could have easily won that game. Maybe that just means Palestine is better than it gets credit for... or maybe it means Saudi Arabia isn't very good.

I cannot refuse to believe that Saudi Arabia is back to its best until it beats Iran, Korea, Australia, or Japan. It has not accomplished this since beating Iran in 2010 World Cup qualifying. It has been even longer since they beat the other three sides.

For context, Jordan and Lebanon have beaten big four sides more recently.

 

No point engaging with these people.
Nobody has guaranteed qualification, but 7 rounds in we have as good a chance as anyone.
Australia haven't beaten their rivals in the top 3 either. Japan only managed a 2-1 win at home against us (and since they bring up luck, let's not forget with the help of a soft penalty). Yet we have to prove ourselves? Go figure.

 

You DO, because you have yet to prove that you deserve to be taken seriously as a top Asian side deserving of qualifying to the World Cup . The only 3 points you fully deserved in this group, was the away match against Thailand. Other than that, you have just been accumulating undeserved victories and points thanks to incompetent refs and pure luck. But sooner or later, the luck will run out and you will be back where you belong, the 2 tier of Asian football with the likes of Qatar and UAE.

 

Saudis have 3 matches at their hands just like the rest of teams in group B. Right now they have 3 points lead compare to Australia which give them a room for a loss or tie. The pressure is on Australia at this moment to not drop any points. Japan most likely qualifies as first team. Teams like North Korea, Jordan, Oman or even Kyrgyzstan could offer more in this round to let say Thailand and Iraq. For next WC I think there should be play off matches for second teams from each group to have a better representation in final round of WCQs.

 

Really? How about you substantiate how we don't deserve 13 out of the 16 points we earned.

Let's start with the last match shall we:

a) Doubt the legitimacy of the Saudi goal? Explain what's wrong with the goal.
b) Did Iraq have crucial decision unfairly made against them in the match? The only debatable decision in that match was Saudi's cleared ball in the first half. Surely you're not arguing we should've won 2-0 ?
c) Because it was only 1-0? Remind me, how many games has the mighty Iran won with a bigger margin than 1?

Same questions for...

the UAE match

the Australia match

First Iraq match

First Thailand match


Come on then!

Some insight. Thailand and Iraq are the only teams we played twice. Goes to reason that the majority of the points come from them.

 

To be fair you played garbage in that match. We controlled the whole game but one individual mistake got you a penalty, and the second penalty was very soft, in my opinion not a penalty at all. You definitely deserved to win the second match, but not the first one.

 

I forgot about the UAE win. That was well deserved too. In an ideal world, KSA should have 7-8 points at this point , no more.

 

The difference between Iran's 1-0 wins and Saudi wins over Iraq and Thailand last year is the fact Iran doesn't sweat it, Iran has dominated, controlled and won all her matches that should have been won 5-0 or 6-0, only 1-0, usually finishing the match with at least 10 clear chances and shots on opponent's goal and conceding almost zero shots on goal, while Saudis won those two matches 1-0 and 2-1 thanks to 3 dubious penalties against the run of the play. So don't even get started trying to put your team in the same sentence as the best team in Asia who haven't conceded a single goal in 990 minutes of WCQ football.

Oh and Iran will almost certainty be playing at the World Cup again, while Saudis will most likely be watching the World Cup on TV, as they have for the last 12 years.

 

The best scenario for KSA is that Japan beats Australia. In that case, 4 points guarantee you automatic qualification and Japan almost qualified before the last game which may be good for KSA.

I also think It will be good for KSA if UAE drops points in away Thailand game because you play against them in their home this time.

At the moment, the focus should be on doing whatever you can to not leave Australia with empty hand. If you can do that, then you will have much less to worry about the results of other games. KSA is missing two of its very important players due to suspension against Australia. IMO even if you have to call 2 experienced players back to the team, you should do it.

If KSA qualifies directly, the good thing is that nobody in the world can claim anymore three nations (Australia, Japan, and Korea) have credit card for qualification to the WC and there is higher chance to see 5 teams in the next WC.

well said almango.

KSA is doing what they have to do. Getting max points from lesser oppositions which means you do not have to do too much against stronger opponents. In fact, this is what top teams of continent normally do in qualifiers.

When I want to assess the performance of the teams in the final round, I do not look at the previous round at all. For example, In WCQs 2014, Japan finished second in the first round 6 points below Uzbekistan but they stepped it up in the final round and qualified to the WC as first team of the continent. After the second round is over, I look at squad, coach, history of each team, etc more than the performance of the last round.

You are right, but Bert Van Marwijk became Saudi Arabia coach after that game.

I agree that Saudi Arabia must win one game out of four games against Australia and Japan to make the qualifications really sweet and convince everyone that they deserve to qualify. If they do not do that, they at least should get three draws against them to convince everyone that they deserve to qualify not 2 draws and two losses or 1 draw and 3 losses. Anyway nobody can read the future.

I agree with you but do not forget that Thailand (The weakest team of this round based on results and performance) finished above Iraq in last round surprisingly.

It will be interesting as you said but do not forget that anything can happen in football.

My suggestion is that whenever you do not like a comment, try your best to ignore it although I understand that It is sometimes hard to do that.

I am sure we all agree that when It comes to official matches, winning is the most important thing not the exact scoreline unless you do not win enough games and It goes to goal difference at the end.

We all know that the referee's mistakes can be sometimes in your favor and sometimes against you. For example, the referee's mistakes was against you in your away game against Japan and home game against Iraq but their mistakes were in your favor in your home game against Thailand.

 

No disagreement on the performance. Iraq lost that match because they gifted Saudi 2 penalties and in the end it's the result that counts.

Well said.
I should follow my own advice in the future

 

For bolded part, I meant very very a few people and I am not one of them.

 

For various reasons, I detest Saudi Arabia with a vengeance. I just don't want to see them succeed and rather enjoy seeing them get embarrassed. I certainly find it frustrating whenever the Saudis manage an undeserved win, which many would agree was the case against Iraq in their first match.

My clear bias against the Saudis aside, however, my general impression is that Saudi Arabia are the kind of team that can look terribly embarrassing against a much stronger side, rather mediocre against any good physical team, and almost a world beater against those who are both weaker than them physically and less talented overall. If going to the World Cup involved meeting teams of the latter nature, then Saudi Arabia would be a better representative for Asian football than a side like say Iraq. But since the World Cup involves playing against teams that fit the first two categories I mentioned, I am not sure, even if the Saudis manage to qualify, they will do Asian football or themselves any good.

For that reason, before I see the Saudis in the World Cup, I like to at least see them prove their metal against a decent non-Asian team (say Panama). Hence, I am certainly hoping that the Saudis don't do better than earn a playoff spot and that is not just because I utterly hate them.

 

There is a fact that I think everyone agrees on it. Out of all coaches in this group, Saudi Arabia coach Bert van Marwijk is clearly the best and most experienced coach.

 

It's sport, not war!
That's something I don't like about international football; its toxic association with populism. I think we can agree there's too much of that in the world right now.

I don't think it's an issue of better or weaker teams. We've had problems against teams that are physical and direct. We played better against technical sides because that's what the local football culture is used to.
The trend in modern football has been towards athleticism and speed and Saudi football has taken a while to adapt. The local game had to learn to not be bullied off the ball and be aggressive in their own right.

 

On the substance of your message about the problem the Saudis used to have with physical teams which played directly, I tend to agree. Beyond that, however, I also think Saudi teams were also psychologically brittle. Meaning that they could lose their composure and focus against a better side if things weren't going their way. I haven't really watched the Saudis in this edition of the World Cup qualifiers to know if they have the same issues or not.

On politics and sports, I don't like Saudi Arabia on any count (including in football, which is the only sport where I notice them), but when you see the Saudis mix politics with sports, such as when they lobby against Iran hosting their games against them, I guess I can't help add my 'political' disdain to what I already feel about their football team. That said, I try to leave my bias aside when evaluating teams and whether I like it or not (its the latter), I can't deny that the Saudis appear to be back among the top 5 teams in the AFC. I wouldn't rank them better than #5, but that still makes them the best candidate to be Asia's playoff team against Concacaf.

 

We are now 70% of the way

Here's a quick summary

Group B

Japan looked explosively good against UAE, it was certainly a top performance played effective with clinical finishing.
Against Thailand they remained comfortably in command with sparking display.
They got the points they needed to finish top of the group.

Saudi Arabia dominated the game and launched venomous attacks against Thailand, a well-deserved three points.
Quite the contrary in the next match against Iraq, which was an equal game. It's more organized tactics all around though, one of the two shots Saudis had on goal went in by Yahya Al Shehri who scoring a remarkable goal after nice movements.
The whole team inspired by the Dutch coach and Saudi Arabia truly back on track again.

Australia looked far short in 2017, they were outplayed by both Iraq & UAE and put in a string of pretty poor performances.
Australia were lucky to get out with a draw at the end in Iraq.game.
And against UAE, frequently gave the ball away and posed a threat only at set-pieces (their greatest threat) which was crucial, but they were playing direct and of course principal asset is their physical strength.

UAE played with some possession football in both games but creating little.
Eventually scuppered by defensive naivety and a failure to convert their chances against Japan.
Played much better in the second match, holding their own for much of the game against the Aussies, but without really offering much of a threat in front of goal.

Iraq's fine performances continue despite their results suggest.
Iraq have always produced talented but this team simply could not recapture past glories.

Thailand are really diligent who are also less experienced that let the team down.

Overall, this group appeared reasonably and predictably:

Both Japan and Saudi Arabia try to stamp their authority in Group B.
Australia surely have a realistic chance even qualify directly.
Iraq had already lost any chance of qualifying and Thailand have so far been eliminated.
UAE still has a slim chance of making it in the playoffs, even though it will be tough due to lack of bench players as the qualifying went on, something similar the last couple games, who have been missing a few key injuries with fitness problems.
Anyway, you should not expect too much from the gulf teams such as UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and Oman, who are already punching above their weight compared to the continent's biggest rivals.