2018 Coaching Thread

Discussion in 'Coach' started by stphnsn, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    we have snow on the ground this morning with an afternoon high of 40. it will melt by this evening's training, but everything will be sloppy. i love/hate march.
     
  2. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    I picked up a Girls 05 (u13) team this year. Prior coach taught them a very nice possession style of soccer. They play the ball very nicely across the defending third. They keep the ball on the ground. They don't just whack it aimlessly on a free kick.
    Problem is - They can not get forward. They cannot finish. They have no urgency. Their technical skills are ok (i'd say slightly below average).
    They went 0-12 in the fall season, allowing 54 goals and scoring 6.
    Maybe they were in a flight that was too high for them.
    I'm all for possession soccer and playing smart. And their woes weren't all due to getting caught with the ball. They really didn't have a goal keeper. And they had a short roster with zero subs many games and 1 or 2 if they were lucky.
    It's not all about winning, but losing a lot will make a kid quit playing and I want them to play for as long as possible.
    But once in a while, you gotta take a chance and put a ball into the attacking third.
    We have added some players, including a gk. And now have a roster of 14.
    I don't want to "un-teach" them what they've learned, because it really is nice. But I need to teach them to "build" from the back and not just "play around" in the back. I need to get them to look up and see the higher, wider option and try to "break lines".
    I'm tinkering with positions a bit to shake things up. I've been doing quite a bit of technical work. And quite a bit of 1v1 work for the 5 practices we've had together so far. I'll start building in more positional activities and small sided games to encourage more attacking.
    Any suggestions are appreciated.
     
  3. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I think the best approach is to evaluate them against U12 standards to see if they are deficient in any fundamentals. If they have mastered the ball and understand the principles of play, then you are in good shape. They have what they need to start training at the U13 level.

    That means I would start teaching team tactics using functional training (applying basic skills and the principles of play in the context of the system). My choice of starting system would be a dutch style 433.

    I would, in order, look at individual competence (1v1), small group competence (line vs. line), 2 lines playing together, and then all 3 lines playing together.

    I would expect that a group of players who have focused on playing safe short passes on the ground would be technically and tactically deficient. Specifically they would likely be weak in dribbling, striking with any surface other than the inside of the foot, first touch, positioning, and movement.

    But then I would expect most players at that age to need improvement in those areas. It sounds like you are in a good starting position.
     
  4. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    I also think they feel that "possession" only happens in your defensive third. They need to realize they can keep the call at midfield and beyond with proper awareness and spacing.
     
  5. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    The way I explain the game to kids is that they should play keep-away with the ball as they advance into the "danger area" from where they can have a dangerous shot at the goal. On defense we want to prevent the other team from getting the ball into the "danger area" we are defending.

    I talk about playing "keep-away" with the ball. My SSG progression starts with keep-away games (rondos) and then I add goals so the keep-away becomes directional. Without goals or something similar, there is no penetration. From the sound of what you said, the team did not get enough emphasis on penetration yet.
     
  6. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Adding a GK: great

    Adding some more depth: great

    Doing quite a bit of technical work: great

    Technical and 1v1 are some of the underpinnings of Positional Play. My girls are quite a bit younger (7-8 YOs) but they are capable of doing a transitional rondo. Yesterday, we did technical work with pivot turns so you can change the point of attack. Next practice, using the same set-up, we are going to work on utilizing our 1v1 skills w/ in the rondo format.

    You’re on the right track because it’s not about keeping the ball. Keeping the ball is a byproduct of a) our desire to move the defense out of the spaces we want to attack and b) find either numerical superiority or qualitative superiority (better player vs weaker player, isolating Messi vs any defender)

    You’re right not to change what they are doing. Like you said, build on it.

    My sessions involve starting with a direction-less rondo (4v0 or 4v1 in a 10x10), but eventually we evolve to a transition/directional rondo (4v2+1 in a 10x20), then into a game scenario. And we overlay the rondo grid over relevant parts of the field. So if I want them to build out, we play from the GKs feet and try to get it into a goal or PUGGs 30/40 yds out. If I want them to learn to attack a goal, we do it in front of goal and try to create a shot from knocking the ball around. The session needs to move from the abstract concepts to concrete applications in a game-like setting.

    Highly recommend finding time to orchestrate/shadow play: playing an 11v0 and getting players to move into appropriate spots depending on the ball and circulating it. The challenge isn’t the defenders, but supporting the ball properly. Doing concepts like getting 3 passes in a zone and switching the play or “up, back, and through patterns”

    Again you’re on the right track. You’ve identified and addressing many of the critical parts; going forward, creating chances, technical skills, 1v1.
     
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  7. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I found shadow play a very effective way to introduce team tactics. It is like a chalk talk except it is real, not an abstract sketch on a blackboard. The players actually make the desired movements rather than see them in graphic form.

    It makes team tactics easier to understand.
    It makes team tactics easier to remember.
    It also presents the "big picture", providing a context for all the smaller scale exercises to the full side in match play.

    After shadow play, the players need to transition to performing the movements under game like conditions.
     
  8. jmnva

    jmnva Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    I'm still 12 days away from my 1st practice. My rosters are largely unchanged from the fall..

    My 7th and 8th grade teams both got promoted to the top division so it will be interesting to see how things go.
     
  9. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    My kid...
    Yesterday, we had the ball with our GK. My kid is playing CB on the far side, she moves wide to receive and gets the ball. This is indoor wall ball. She takes a short dribble and, off the dribble, plays a 5 yard forward diagonal pass to a teammate.

    But then, she doesn’t stop her run! She continues a diagonal run between defenders. Perfect run! Her run takes her near the ball and if her teammates understood this is the point where it’s paased back to her. But her teammates keep flowing and make another diagonal pass toward the near sideline. They’ve switched the play! My kid has continued her diagonal run and again finds herself in space near the ball. But again her teammates don’t play her the ball.

    Now the ball is near the wall near me and my kid continues her run and now is right on top of the ball carrier. I look at her and she’s looking at me.

    I give her the surprised-what-are-you-doing face. I tell her, “ go find space”.

    She says, “I need to use the bathroom. Can I sub?”

    Her perfect movement off the ball was a mirage!
     
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  10. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Tomorrow, if we get on the field, I'm going to get my first taste of play-practice-play.
     
  11. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    i'm doing p-p-p with my 6Us this spring. their team coaches could not understand the beginning "just let them play" period at the first session. the practice period went fine, and then the final play period was fine. i have about 40 kids split between 6 teams, and this was the first academy-style session any of them have ever had as well as introducing p-p-p. rotating through stations was an adventure, but i've figured out some ways to make it go more smoothly next time. hopefully the coaches catch on as the season progresses.

    that being said, it doesn't look like the weather is going to cooperate for training tomorrow. the "feels like" temp is supposed to be 28*. that's too cold for 6Us.

    my 18Us have their first game sunday. we were off last week for spring break and only had one session this week due to the weather. we'll see how it goes. i should have a full 18 which is good because i think i'll be doing a lot of rotating.
     
  12. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    My objection to play-practice-play is several. What I hope they mean is play-train-play. (practice means "to train by repeated exercises.") All my points are age related and objective related. (With U6s, there isn't much difference between playing and training.)

    First, it cuts your training session length to 1/3rd. Meaning that 2/3rds of the time the coach is not supposed to correct errors in technique and tactics. Second it eliminates the best training time for technical and SAQ training. Third, it doesn't allow for warm ups and cool downs.

    It obviously does not apply to periodized training plans, or else I would have more objections. I just cannot see any coach using this with intermediate and older players.
     
  13. jmnva

    jmnva Member

    Feb 10, 2007
    Arlington, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    I ran a version of p-p-p in all of my practices this week and really liked it Our training sessions are an hour so I did 10 minutes of scrimmage, then 40 minutes of practice and 10 minutes of scrimmage.

    I realize that my ratios are off and I will tweak things next week
     
  14. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    sometimes your pedantics are too much.

    I don't think this is totally true. My understanding is during play periods, you are free to make points to individual players. You're just not supposed to joystick coach them. You let them play, but if you can give some nuggets, give some nuggets. During the second play period, they're supposed to be playing the game with rules. I think this means you can coach them as you would in a game. At least that's how I take it.

    i'd start phasing it out with competent 10Us. Start getting them into a more traditional warmup and training sequence.
     
  15. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    #117 rca2, Apr 6, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
    I will ignore the insult. The following comments refer to USSF's description of p-p-p on its website:

    "Play-Practice-Play is a Grassroots developed philosophy designed around a player-centered approach to coaching. Taking a player centered approach places the needs and motivations of the player at the forefront of a coach’s approach to coaching his or her players. The concept of Play-Practice-Play is to allow young players to experience the game and game-like situations as much as possible. This approach differs from traditional practices that may have children standing in lines, running laps and participating in drills that don’t resemble the game of soccer."

    To me, this "concept" is just new jargon for old concepts.

    Phase 1: "the first responsibility of the coach is to create an environment that is safe, engaging and fun." This isn't even new jargon. I have been following USSF material since the late 70s and this has always been the mantra.

    and... "players engage in small-sided games with the primary focus on having fun." This implies that phases 2 and 3 will not feature small sided games or fun. Now that would be a departure from past concepts.

    Phase 2: "The goal of the Practice phase is to create an environment filled with opportunities for players to experience and learn about the goal of the training session through repetition."

    I don't know where to begin with this statement, so I will just say that repetition is how people learn motor skills. Repetition is also how people learn automated responses to defined circumstances. Repetition is not how people learn to be creative thinkers and problem solvers. Automated responses are the opposite of decision making. While some coaches use repetition to teach tactics as automated responses to tactical situations, I believe this is a fundamental mistake. (Pun intended.)

    "Practice activities should be of appropriate challenge (striking a balance between success and failure), resemble the game, involve the players making decisions and allow for creative problem solving."

    This statement should be universally true of almost all athlete development, not just phase 2 of USSF youth soccer sessions. Adaption and specificity are general principles of athletic training. "Creative problem solving" is a required skill in soccer and other invasion sports (but not in events like the 100 yard dash). This has always been recognized by USSF.

    Phase 3: "The final stage of Play-Practice-Play is the game."

    This is ending the session with unrestricted play--a scrimmage. No change from prior conventional wisdom of at least the last 40 years.

    This is what changed. Instead of the "targeted" training coming first and then gradually adding more challenge and complexity until reaching unrestricted scrimmage, the SSGs come before the targeted training. The players have to jump directly from targeted training to the complexity of the game without the former intermediate SSG steps (by USSF doctrine at least two steps of increasing complexity). Also instead of targeted training coming first when players are fresh, it comes after 20 to 30 minutes of unrestricted SSGs. This is not optimal for technical and SAQ training. Both these changes make training less efficient and less effective.
     
  16. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    What is the correct ratio? 1:1:1?
     
  17. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    Eh, my biggest problem with the new grassroots approach is that it assumes everyone knows what soccer should look like. For people that never played, coaching kids that don't watch the game, it's yet another instance of the US running a real time simulation of Inverting the Pyramid.

    I held my tongue at the meeting where the state instruction staff introduced this, the one that nearly produced blood was:

    "Every great player developed this way" to the accompanying graphic of some probably british kids playing in the street circa 1950.

    Yes, every great player that grew up in a soccer culture where they saw the game regularly with friend/parents/relatives developed by starting with free play with friends. Just like I can take a pointyball and get 8 8 year old kids in Western PA and say "play football" and they know - 4 downs, you can't pass forward twice, etc....

    It's a useful tool that an experience coach should be comfortable with. For new to coaching volunteers, I don't see them having the domain expertise to to guide the discovery.
     
  18. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    Your point about pointy football is spot on.
    Take basketball as an example.
    Without ever being coached or being on a basketball team- Most american kids past the age of 7 would never take a shot “underhand”. They don’t need a coach to tell them not to shoot that way. They may not have perfect shooting form- but they know that a shot is to be take above the head. They have practiced dribbling between their legs (until about 10+ years old- they may not do it successfully. They hit themselves in the leg. Lose the ball. Etc).
    Now take a 7 year old American kid that has never been coached in soccer before. Tell him to shoot the ball. 9 out of 10 kids will kick it with their toe. Their plant foot will be in the wrong spot.
    Tell them to dribble a soccer ball and turn with it. Again they’ll be using their toe and their turn will look nothing like an inside cut, outside cut, pull back, etc is supposed to look.
    Take a 7 year old from Europe or South America that has never been coached in soccer. No way they kick with their toe. and they probably know at least 7 different ways to change direction when dribbling.
     
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  19. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    i think you're making more out of this than you need to. here's how it was described to us.
    play 1: kids arrive and go into SSGs instead of just standing around and whacking shots at the goal. once everyone is there, give them a few minutes more to play and get warmed up and then move on to your "practice" period.
    practice: introduce the concept you want to work on. build from intro into more complex just like you would have in the past with 4 stages.
    play 2: get them into a game with the rules they play at to see how they absorbed what you taught them during the practice period.

    the biggest change that i take away from this is the the emphasis of the first play period is really just to get them active and warmed up when they arrive at the field instead of just dicking around.
     
  20. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I've encountered this approach before but it wasn't a whole "approach". We partner with an English club and the trainer that came over to work with our players introduced us to this idea. Instead of milling around, shooting, like you said, and other things. They show up and start to play. Kids pick up pinnies as they arrive. But even then it's not for very long, 5 minutes after start to make sure we can get the stragglers in. Then you went into a normal practice.
     
  21. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    here is the US Soccer I article I was referring to: https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/20...-five-things-to-know-about-play-practice-play

    @stphnsn It sounds to me like the person "explaining" the change to you didn't like it and was rationalizing what he didn't like as no change at all. I find it difficult to believe that having players stand around and shoot at goal is a commonly used warmup plan. Having them only play SSGs as a warmup is not a good choice either. You don't want to start a warm up with high intensity and ballistic movements. That is how a warmup should end, not begin. Again 40 years ago best practices did not have people standing around shooting on goal as a warmup. So US Soccer did not suddenly come a long this year and vow to stop coaches from warming up players by having them stand around and shoot at the goal.
     
  22. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    #124 rca2, Apr 6, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
    So there is a wrong way to but the ball in the net? You have never seen a set shot, an underhanded layup or an underhanded free throw shooter?

    I disagree with your comments about soccer too. I never played "youth soccer" because there wasn't any youth soccer in the 1950s and 60s in my state. But we played without adult supervision in school yards and did the normal soccer moves. Inside and outside cuts, drawbacks, scissors and step-overs are all intuitive. I really dislike the idea that there is a wrong way to dribble. Finishing with the toe is a wonderful skill. It is a very fast technique which is not telegraphed to the keeper and knuckles the ball. Ever hear of the toe poke tackle?

    My own kids didn't watch soccer on TV, but they began watching my adult games when they were toddlers. Two were keepers and the extent to which my kids mimicked the keeper techniques and tactics they saw was frightening.

    That is the real value of a soccer culture. Kids watch their grandparents, parents, and extended family play. There is a never ending supply of players for pickup games and informal coaching. In contrast I was starving for soccer until I was 35 living on the East Coast.
     
  23. dehoff03

    dehoff03 Member

    Apr 22, 2016
    #125 dehoff03, Apr 6, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
    At the 4v4 and 7v7 age groups it is supposed to be 1:1:1. (I didn’t look at 9v9 or 11v11 yet).

    A 4v4 sample session from the 4v4 grassroots intro looks like:
    20 minutes 2v2 with a couple breaks to ask questions and for players to answer.
    20 minutes activity( they also call this a “game”) with more individual emphasis on the practice topic
    20 minutes 4v4 scrimmage
     
    elessar78 repped this.

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