He spent a good portion of that time injured. McKinney immediately became captain of the U19 team if I remember, was injured for much of the season and made his debut at the end of the B1 season. He then made an impact immediately with Shalke's first team. If Adams went to a top European team in B1, or anywhere else and took off on a similar trajectory, I would be very happy. Given that he is a bit older than McKennie was, that could involve a loan. If he didn't go to a top team (lets say Hannover to pick a random team), I wouldn't expect a loan and I would expect him to be integrated into the lineup at a more rapid pace than with Shalke, Dortmund, Manchester United, Chelsea etc. If he went over in the summer, he would have a far greater chance of playing a very significant role with the team from the beginning.
Not sure if you are confusing McKennie with Taitague? Weston played 21 of 28 matches for the U19s. Haji played 26 and had 10 Gs. Nick played only 8. IMO, If Adams goes to any BuLi team he will likely spend most of his first year with the reserves or U21s which is fine.
At the end of the day, you seem to fundamentally believe (which is fine, of course) that the gap between MLS and the lower end of the Big 4 is minimal which is why you repeatedly state that (a) coaches who select MLS starters instead of calling in Big 4 starters is broadly acceptable and (b) an up-and-coming but not dominant MLS players can immediately play in the Big 4. Conversely, I think that there's a sizeable gap between the two, particularly in how to deal with smarter faster players at a much higher speed of play and tactical nous. IMO, MB/JA are materially below the Big 4 level at this point and a MLS player would have to be materially better than both of them in MLS to think that they are Big 4 level. In other words, one would have to be dominating MLS. Unfortunately, I don't see many UMSNT MLS players who are clearly above these guys and I'd be hard pressed to say that Adams is noticeably better than MB as a midfielder at this point. Note: this is not to say that MB is below the Ralston level or isn't a leading candidate for our midfield pool; it's just that many here over-rate MLS significantly IMO. It's ~ the 20th league in the world FFS, although it looks like we're closing the gap with Mexico!
I would say that this statement generally summarizes my positon in relation to yours but I would like to qualify/alter one point. Maybe it's minor semantics but to me is the key to my position. I wouldn't say so much that the gap between the weaker teams in the big 4 is minimal. It is significant. I would say that there is enough variation within rosters of the big 4 and MLS teams so that there is significant overlap in talent. I would say that the big 4 teams generally have more depth and their "floor of talent" is much higher than that of the MLS teams. I would say that, although the MLS teams wouldn't be able to compete on a consistent basis with the big 4 teams, they have players that would be as good or better than some of the players on the big 4 teams. I believe that is where Adams comes in. I don't, of course, have any "proof" and the only way to see how Adams would do is if he goes over to Europe....which I hope he does. Of course even then there are often difficulties in assessing the situation. Look at Carlton in MLS...he isn't playing. Can we assume that it is because Tata is being unfair in some way or is it because Carlton really isn't ready for the level? The same thing can and does happen anywhere (including Europe).
No I am not confusing McKennie with Tatiague. Apparently I am just wrong. I was sure that I remembered him joining Shalke, almost immedioately being named captain of their youth team and halfway to 2/3 of the way through being injured. Near the end of the B1 season he got a short cameo with the first team for his debut. I am not going to research and double check my facts....you generally do a better job at that than I do so I just accept the fact that I was wrong and chalk it up to age and a failing memory.....
You're mostly right I think. McKennie left FCD right before the 2016 DA playoffs in the summer. FCD of course went on to win the U18 DA championship without him ) ) He was indeed captaining Schalke U19s shortly after he got there, and did sustain an injury around the holidays (if my memory serves me correctly.) Didn't keep him out too terribly long. Then he got his first team debut in garbage time of Schalke's last game of 2017. A meaningless game for them actually. Then right at the start of the 2017-2018 season he was with their first team. Point being, it was indeed less than a calendar year in between McKennie leaving Dallas and debuting for Schalke. [Dallas reportedly offered a substantial HG contract. Would have been one of the biggest in league history. It wasn't about the money.] It was also, by the way, about a calendar year in between Pulisic signing for Dortmund and his first team debut. He signed with them in February of 2015. Made his debut in the Bundesliga in January of 2016.
Yeah............maybe he was captain when Kubler wasn't available. I do remember us making a fuss on the youth boards about how surprising it was that he was named captain for a match so quickly. Of course he was used to that role. He had been captain with the highly successful 2016 FCD U18s, and was also captain for USYNTs during that period................ The U-19 #USMNT defeats Russia to win the Slovakia Cup! Captain Weston McKennie is named Player of the Tournament. pic.twitter.com/kkSEsbrLaQ— U.S. Soccer YNT (@USYNT) April 29, 2016
He was a defender in MLS, so I guess he was a contender. He was not one of the Finalists for the award. So, not sure what the point is. He was good and turned down big money to leave MLS for Europe. By his 21st birthday, MIazga had one sub appearance for the USMNT and a total of 27 minutes. Adams just turned 19 and has three starts for the USMNT and 270 minutes. We will see if Adams turns down the money and tests himself. The fact he hasn't renegotiated his deal to date suggests he is not interested in MLS long term.
I don’t disagree that there’s some overlap but the “line” is well above MB and JA (almost definitionally in the latter case as he was unable to play with one of the worst teams in recent EPL history). IMO, you significantly overvalue MLS’ play level as it’s unclear to me that Adams is currently better than an uninjured Lletget who is also definitinally below big 4 level. Given that, the bar is quite high as to the overlap and a non-star (although up-and-coming) doesn’t pierce that threshold. Adams is a teen so he has several years of accelerated growth ahead of him and I hope he moves quickly and develops what holes he’s missing.
We seem to have forgotten Michael Bradley's highly successful years in the Bundesliga and Serie A? Don't lump him in with Altidore. I mean.............from 2011 to 2013 Michael played in over 80 games for Chievo and Roma. [After playing 80 games, mostly as a starter, for Gladbach in the Bundesliga.] That Roma team he was a full-time starter for in 2012-13 finished 6th. Make a list of US-born field players that started for teams that finished 6th or better in a top 4 league................and you don't get very far. [We just had one with Pulisic, of course.] He started the 2013 Copa Italia final. The starting midfield for Roma that day? Totti, De Rossi, Lamela, and Bradley. I think MANY on this board underestimate Bradley in his prime. He's on the downside of his career now, but his performances now don't erase what he accomplished in his early-to-mid 20s. For some reason when people talk about "Big 4" leagues their minds only go to Man City, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus, etc. level clubs. There's a lot of variation within that "Big 4" group. Watch the bottom half of Serie A, Benevento versus Crotone or something, and then tell me that there aren't 50 USMNT-eligible players that could be on the field for those teams. There are. HOWEVER, clubs like that are the ones that can't afford many USMNT-eligible players. MLS isn't going to just give them away. The bottom half of La Liga can be dreary at times as well. The thing is, Las Palmas versus Leganes isn't shown on US tv. Why would it be? Adams was recently listed as one of the top 50 teenage prospects in the world by the Italian publication Gazetta dello Sport. Not some American hype magazine. I don't understand the inferiority complex we have about our young players. He is more than good enough to go to a team in a top 4 league. Big Euro clubs are scarfing up American teenagers like never before. They may not be interested in MLS veterans. But they're scarfing up the teenagers quickly. Just recently we saw Taylor Booth go to Bayern Munich, Zyen Jones go to Feyenoord, Chris Gloster go to Hannover, and the list goes on and on. We have tons of raw materials in this country that clubs in "big leagues" want. And there are more Weston McKennies, Christian Pulisics, and Josh Sargents in the pipeline. It keeps rolling as our development academy matures, expands, and grows. Next to go over may be Gio Reyna................and BIG clubs are looking at Gio Reyna.
There's no doubt that MB was a major league player at his peak. My point is that he's far from a major league player now and that's the criteria I'd use to compare players in MLS currently. I also have no doubt that Adams is an exciting prospect and hopefully will have a lot of interest from major league teams. The specific point Mahtzo1 and were discussing was whether, right now and out of the box, Adams is a major league regular, not if he was an excellent candidate for purchase. Matt Miazga is an example that we used as a talented up-and-comer but not immediately ready for the major leagues. I don't watch La Liga but don't for a second think that there 50 USMNT players who can play in EPL and B1. Not even close as again, MB/JA are not at that level and there aren't 50 players better than them in the whole league, let alone USMNT eligible.
Please remember that MB90 and Jozy made Euro moves when they were around the same age as Adams. Jozy to a Big 4/Big 4 for E6.5MM. Lletget is an average MLS player. He is a dime a dozen or to paraphrase Herc Gomez, every MLS team has a Pokemon version of him. Adams has elite class attributes that have scouts rating him with the potential to have the same kind of midfield playmaker impact as N'Golo Kante and Raja Nainggolan.
HHF - None of this is different than what I (clearly poorly) stated. I am simply saying that MB and JA are currently below major league level and that Adams will probably need a year of seasoning before we should expect him to contribute in the majors. Mahtzo1 believes that Adams is ready to play right out of the box and Clint Eastwood believes there are 50 USMNT players who are able to play in La Liga.
Lletget before his injury was one of Galaxy's best players. I think you're underrating him. He's been out of the game for so long hopefully he can regain his form.
Yeah, I remember him being asked about it in an interview and he downplayed it saying he was only captain a couple times and Elgert likes to rotate the armband
Miazga was a clearly better CB, relative to the other CB's in MLS, than Adams is a CM. That's what their respective performances have shown, talent/ceiling is a distinct conversation.
In case folks missed it, one of the youngsters we've been talking about in this thread signed a homegrown deal with FC Dallas yesterday. He reportedly had European opportunities. FCD's first team roster at the moment is more than 1/3 homegrown players. Gonzalez, Cano, Reaves, Richards, Cannon, Acosta, Ulloa, Servania, Pomykal, Reynolds, Ferreira [Of course FCD has had the most homegrown injury report of all time recently with Gonzalez, Acosta, Servania, Pomykal, and Ferreira all out.] Actually...............they fit snugly into a 3-5-2 formation. If Dallas did that in the opening round of the USOC I'd pee myself.
The Union has been a team to follow because of their USA youngsters and the way they play. The Union has been frustrating to watch, they can control the game with great passing, get tons of chances to score but lack the final push. Sapon for all the hustle he does every game has little show in the scoring sheet. 19-year-old Auston Trusty as always had a solid game as an LCB, he did get beat once but he was fortunate Dryer didn't score. I also saw 19-year-old RCB Mckenzie as a sub because of an injury, looks solid for his 40 minutes of work. Mat Real had an unlucky bad game, he was involved in both goals the Union allowed, he got caught ball watching on an offside trap, and had an unfortunate bounce to an opponent for the second score. Fafa Picault for having so much speed and heart doesn't seem to make the final correct play. Very frustrating game to watch if you are a Union fan. P.S. I got ESPN+ they have a 30 days trial and then is 4.95 a month. Picture quality is excellent.
Do you think Alfredo Morales is better than Bradley and AJ better than Altidore? I think Jozy and Mike are both currently good enough to play regularly on mid-table and below teams in Germany, Spain, and Italy.
A lot of FCD's injuries "should" be resolved by summer time, if you follow the MLS injury report, so hopefully we see what the outlook of a full squad looks like. Have never seen Servania but seems like a real prospect at the #8 position which seems to quite a deep position on FCD. Really hope Pareja can develop these players for the sake of the USMNT.