2018 and 2022 - Rate the bids

All the agreements that require clubs to release players for international dates and tournaments would be null without FIFA. An independent European organization would have to negotiate them all over again. International soccer would be dead.

 

That would be true if European top class players would play in for instance China or Brasil. But it is the other way around. Top players from other confederations play in Europe for European top clubs, so those confeds would have to negotiate release for their nat teams. It would mean international nat teams out side Europe would be dead, as there would be no means for them to make the clubs release their players.

 

Very well put. I don't think I could have said it better myself.

 

I don't really know what you're trying to say there.

I'm quite sure that the world cup is the main event for many football lovers in the world. I'm also quite sure that the majority of Europeans feel differently though, that's the point. Don't get me wrong, the world cup is huge for Europeans too, but it really is a talking point only once every four years. Domestic leagues is what makes European football tick on a daily basis, first and foremost, then European football next. That is why UEFA could happily survive without the world cup. Whereas FIFA could not survive happily without the world cup. THis is underscored by world cup sponsors actually. The likes of Puma, Nike, McDonalds, what have you, use the world cup as a marketing tool to grow their brand in what to them are immature, unsaturated markets. But what does European football stand to gain from this? That's the issue here. European football does not need the world cup, not financially and not in terms of a popularity boost, and the sponsors already find their way to European football with or without a world cup. Whereas much of the rest of the world does need that financial and popularity boost. As a result FIFA always has a clash of interests when allocating a world cup. On the one hand it has to keep UEFA happy, on the other it has to keep sponsors who see the world cup as a means to grow their international (football) business happy.

What would make ME happy is FIFA purely deciding these things on football merit alone and not for football political reasons. But that's never going to happen.

 

No it would mean all of them would be dead. European teams too. UEFA has no independent power apart from FIFA. Club agreements to release players are with FIFA, which transfers to UEFA as a member confederation within the FIFA umbrella. International soccer would be dead.(PERIOD dead, not dead with conditions for Europe alone).

 

Depends on what your definition of international football is. European football would be alive and kicking even independently, don't see how anyone can dispute that. It seems that many non-Europeans on BigSoccer aren't aware of the importance of domestic leagues to European fans.

 

You think UEFA couldn't afford to pull out of UEFA? I mean, seriously? European competitions as in UEFA members draw more investment and spectators on an annual basis than the world cup and FIFA in general does over a period of four years. If UEFA wanted to pull out, they quite easily could.

 

I think most if not all domestic soccer around the world would be fine. But International football outside of Europe would be really hurt. And well does Europe not care about the rest of the world? thats the question, are they really that 'snooty' or do they really care about the game?
Because its obvious that if any continent has the power, its Uefa. As much as I hate that. So I think for the good of all, lets give them Europeans their WC as often as the rule allows.

 

I never argued that UEFA shouldn't cooperate in the world cup. If anything I think European football has some class of moral obligation towards the rest of the football world as after all many clubs thrive thanks to non-European talent. I am arguing against people who complain about the political clout UEFA has in the world cup. If UEFA was really cynical about this, they would demand (and probably get) even more power.

 

I could not agree more. I think that is the reality. And the end of the conversation

 

I don't really understand what you mean, actually. The MLS, the Brasilero or the J.League don't need the World Cup anymore than the Premier League or the Eeredivisie. And the Premier League or the Eeredivisie would work without the UEFA.

Also, the FIFA could exist without the World Cup. It did for nearly 30 years. It could go back to just governing the laws of the game, if that's what FIFAs members wanted. Of course, a withdrawal of UEFA would almost certainly immediately end the FIFA, while they might be able to do without one of the other associations for a couple of years, but at least on the long run, a worldwide association wouldn't make much sense if any of the continents dropped out.

And again, I think you underestimate what European football gains from the World Cup. Noone would immediately go bankrupt or anything, but a lot of people get exposed to football and its stars during a World Cup. On the long run, without the World Cup there would be less fans, in particular less international fans and thus lower revenues. Like I know you, you probably don't think that this would be a bad thing - truth to be told, I'm not so sure about that myself - but noone who has anything to say will agree with you there, they want people in Hong Kong running around in ManU jerseys, and even the World Cup is still the best tool to get new people to do that.

 

Can't afford? No, you don't understand me. Its not an issue of money at all. No, I don't think they can do it period as UEFA. They would have to disband the confederation, and re-form as a separate governing body. A separate governing body which would have no cooperation from clubs for national team play at all, one which would have no transfer rules or regulations at all, one in which national federations were fully independent to run themselves without interference. The FA want's to invite Real Madrid to play in their league, no one to stop them. Chelsea wants to buy Frank Ribery in March without Bayern's approval, no problem. Sheikh What'shisname buys Liverpool decides it would be a great idea to play half of the club's home games in Qatar, no problem. Germany and England want to play a national team game, too bad, Manchester United and the entire Bundesliga don't want to release their players and there are now no regulations requiring them too. There is a lot of infrastructure built into the entire FIFA-confederation-federation pyramid that you take for granted, but if it wasn't there anymore you would sure notice it was gone. For instance of what happens when rules in an international sports federation breakdown see what happened in hockey within this decade when the Russian and Czech national federations refused to accept new IIHF regulations on player compensation for transfers. This is when players like Malkin were teenagers. NHL clubs just started poaching players under contract directly off of their European club teams without their consent, knowledge or compensation. One day they are chilling in Moscow, the next they are suiting up for the Pittsburgh Penguins, while the other club wonders why their players didn't show up for practice.

 

Also is their any guarantee the Europeans can act in concert? The English, French, Spanish, Portugese, and even the Dutch and Italians have sympathetic ties with a large number of ex-colonial countries. Cutting them out might not fly especially with the various CONCACAF, CONEMBOL, CAF, and AFC federations leveraging those relationships. You get an exemption for say Argentina to participate in the "European Championships", you can be sure Colombia, Ecuador, Chile, Mexico, etc. will be lobbying Madrid at various levels of government for exceptions

 

Look. We are talking doomsday scenario here.

Player release. The World Cup is the top stage for a player to be on. BUT its all about the glory. A player cannot make enough money in a WC to survive for 4 years, they need a league to play in. And where are the leagues where the real money is? Europe. Other leagues around the world take in overseas players, but lets face it, they are not the cream are they? Yes, MLS has Beckham. But he went there when it looked like he was in his twilight years. Llundberg moved to extend his playing career... The J-League has a bunch of Brazilians, none of whom would be stars in Europe. So on, and so on.

Fact is, If UEFA broke away, then the rest of the world would have to ask for their players back. They cannot simply go and get them. Yes they had the option of barring those players who remained in Europe from playing in the WC, but we are talking about their livelihoods!

The WC is a fantastic shop window, and does attract many new people to the game. However, the Premier League can do that on its own. Shunnosuke Nakamura moved to Espanyol, and Spanish football exploded on Japanese TV. 2 games a night on Saturday and Sunday, and a special midweek. None of this happened before he turned up there. OK, he has since left and moved back to Japan, the experiment failed!

The Premier League saw monster growth in Korea with the signing of Park. As well as enjoying viewing figures in China, greater than the population of England!

And yes, I know Ferguson saw Park at the WC, but given the scouting networks European clubs have, the vast majority of players that get taken to Europe are picked up outside o a WC.

 

What a strange argument.

 

Hardly. Preferntial trade status already exists for a number of countries because of colonial ties.

 

I'm sorry to break your FIFA World Cup bubble, but the European Cup as a tournement is watched all over the planet, as is the Champions League. So the world is exposed to the soccer stars on a yearly basis from the European based tournements. The WC only comes in as a interlude between two Euros.

To the other poster who claimed that UEFA needs the FIFA to impose releasement of players from the clubs to the nat teams. If clubs want to make money from the UEFA organized profitable CL/Euroleague, than they have to underwrite and sign to the UEFA rules. So if the case arises that the UEFA would decide to break away from the FIFA they in a blink of an eye could copy and impose those FIFA rules. The clubs would be suicidale not to sign. Would FC Bayern not sign? They would get hurt in sponsor income and miss out the 40 million €€ they made in the CL up to this point.

 

The dirty little secret of the FIFA cartel. The clubs....they don't really need UEFA's help to organize a major money making event like the Champions League. Its only FIFA's presence that guarantees them that right. Its one of those infrastructure things that you would sure notice if it was gone. The thing about having competing governing bodies is that suddenly the cartel's power is gone, and all the club's and federations would get to pick and choose which rules they want to follow or if they even want to bother joining.

 

You are aware the clubs could just organise their own Champions League right, the clubs don't need UEFA either. Heck they've threatened to do this before and will do so every time their little billionaire owners don't get their way.

 

your post is almost similar to Whitecloud, so I react to both.

Yes the top clubs can start an own CL, but that comes at a cost that isnot clear to people from outside Europe. That Clubs CL would falter, because they would be thrown out of their national league immediately. And while especially the USA soccer fans may be accustomed to club owners molded to the baseball/basketball leagues, that doesnot work in Europe. A club is embedded in a social structure and community. They are in a sense a metaphore for our ancient tribal structures. So thinking that you would be able to survive out of a national league with only matches in a clubs CL is laughable and makes clear that those who post that have no clue what so ever how soccer in Europe works. Our soccer clubs are totally different from baseballclubs. Supporters want to see them play against national archrivals. Cl matches are a bonus, but a club that would have the stupidity to leave its natural environment will be dead within a few months.
Playing for a break away club would also hurt the player as he wouldnot be allowed to be a meber of the FA of the country, so he wouldnot have the opportunity to play for the national team anymore. And what glitter may be put on the CL trophy, for a player the winning of the Euro Champions for nat teams outshines any club trophy, and that is recognized by sponsors too. So the value of a player playing for a break away club s goes downhill.

 

Neither the European Championship nor the CL have the same reach and media presence as the World Cup, not even close. Another 10 or 20 years and the World Cup may become obsolete, but I'm not sure about that... the European Championship isn't all that important outside of Europe, and the CL lacks the event character of a month-long World Cup.

 

While that's true, why would Europeans care about any of that? European football can more than sustain itself with or without FIFA, and with or without the world cup, that's the point. Europe doesn't need the boost the world cup gives to football worldwide. Football could barely be more popular than it is now in Europe. Again that's both on the highest and lowest level. The popularity and organisational quality of football on the lowest level is the strong point of European football if you ask me, when compared to other continents, and while that's perhaps another discussion, it does underscore the point of Europe not needing the world cup.

The European championships is in the top five of major, as in most watched globally, sports events in the world, by the way.

 

Again, Europe doesn't need FIFA and the World Cup to continue - other confederations don't need the World Cup either to continue at the level they are, though without FIFAs regulation of intercontinental transfers South America in particular might get into trouble - but it is important for future growth. Neither UEFA nor most clubs would seriously consider dropping out of FIFA and the World Cup at this point.

 

Global trade and international treaties dont really play a part in Football. The only thing that affects players is the need for a visa. If you come from an EU nation, you dont. And since UEFA covers EU nations, that is pretty irrelevant.

UEFA does not need to "grow" the game in Europe. It has a pretty much unassailable lead already. A WC is all about the glory. European football has the momentum to keep going as it is, without taking much of a hit should the WC disappear.

 

Wasn't my point. It was that France, England, Portugal, and Spain have been involved with extending benefits to the Francophonie, Commonwealth, Organization of Iberian-American States, etc. in a number of areas for some time. Seeing how important soccer and the world cup are to a number of people, I could easily see a lot of lobbying through these organizations for inclusion in this hypothetical "Euro Championships + Brazil and Argentina".

At the world cup level and what a hypothetical UEFA break from FIFA would mean would probably involve a lot of political wrangling from outside actors.