2018-2019 UEFA Season Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, May 29, 2018.

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  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #126 MassachusettsRef, Oct 3, 2018
    Not much. Or maybe not anything. The final sequence is out of order in this video so I didn't post this initially to avoid confusion, but the play immediately preceding the 2CT is at 10:19 here (again, as long as the video stays up):



    This is why I insinuated that, in spirit, the first caution was much more DR than DT, even if DT is probably the reason it gets written up.
     
  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #127 Orange14, Oct 4, 2018
    There was a deliberate hand ball outside the box by Handanovic, the Inter keeper in the PSV match yesterday. Referee only showed a Yellow card. I'm not a ref but wonder where the line between Red and Yellow on a play such as this one is.

    1047573564994572289 is not a valid tweet id
     
  3. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #128 code1390, Oct 4, 2018
    I think it's a red. At worst the attacker will be shooting at goal with a single defender on the line. I wonder what made the ref go yellow?
     
  4. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #129 Orange14, Oct 4, 2018
    I don't know. I was watching it on the Univision feed and my Spanish was not quite good enough to understand what the match commentators were saying. I didn't see any comments on the TNT wrap up show. I guess this match was not deemed as a high profile one for US viewers.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #130 MassachusettsRef, Oct 4, 2018
    Better video, including Mazic indicating there were two--no, wait, three!--defenders covering:

    https://streamable.com/vgonp


    Of course, there weren't. There was one "covering" at best. I suspect when he saw this again, he realized he was wrong. This should have been red.
     
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  6. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    #131 socal lurker, Oct 4, 2018
    I don’t think it was that bad. The play of the ball was to the right of the GK, and the attacker was going around to the left and was going to have to cut back. My first view, I thought the touch was hard enough to bring the other defenders into play. On re-watching, I think it was soft enough that only the one was really back, so DOGSO would be the better call. But I think it was fairly close—and I fully understand how Mazic got there,as he’s watching the play and the defenders are coming back hard so a looking a moment later, the defenders also look more prepared to help than they do with the luxury of replay.
     
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  7. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    #132 Thezzaruz, Oct 5, 2018
    [​IMG]

    Been some complaints from Rangers fans that this didn't get called as Offside in the build up to a goal on Thursday night. Hard to disagree tbh. :D
     
  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    #133 socal lurker, Oct 5, 2018
    Yikes—if that is a properly timed pic, that’s a pretty big miss!
     
  9. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #134 balu, Oct 11, 2018
    Selected Nations League appointments:

    League A

    Poland - Portugal: DEL CERRO GRANDE (ESP)
    Belgium - Switzerland: MATEU LAHOZ (ESP)
    Croatia - England: BRYCH (GER)
    Netherlands - Germany: CAKIR (TUR)

    League B

    Russia - Sweden: BANTI (ITA)
    Slovakia - Czech Republic: VINCIC (SVN)
    Ireland - Denmark: ESTRADA FERNANDEZ (ESP)

    League C

    Montenegro - Serbia: ROCCHI (ITA)
    Greece - Hungary: STIELER (GER)
    Estonia - Finland: PAWSON (ENG)
    Norway - Slovenia: SIEBERT (GER)
     
  10. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #135 balu, Oct 11, 2018
    Selected friendly appointments

    Wales - Spain: TAYLOR (ENG)
    Turkey - Bosnia and Herzegovina: KARASEV (RUS)
    Saudi Arabia - Brazil: MAKKELIE (NED)
    Peru - Chile: VILLAREAL (USA)
    Costa Rica - Colombia: ELFATH (USA)
     
  11. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #136 balu, Oct 14, 2018
    Selected Nations League appointments:

    League A

    France - Germany: MAZIC (SRB)
    Iceland - Switzerland: EKBERG (SWE)
    Poland - Italy: SKOMINA (SVN)
    Spain - England: MARCINIAK (POL)

    League B

    Ukraine - Czech Republic: MAZEIKA (LTU)
    Russia 2-0 Turkey: RACZKOWSKI (POL)
    Republic of Ireland - Wales: KUIPERS (NED)

    League C

    Israel - Albania: MAZZOLENI (ITA)
    Finland - Greece: GIL (POL)

    Surprising League A appointment for Ekberg, whose name I've never heard of.
     
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  12. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    #137 Thezzaruz, Oct 14, 2018
    Yea not that well known but he's been on the FIFA list since 2013. Mainly done early rounds CL/EL and some knock-out rounds/final in the youth Euros and such.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #138 MassachusettsRef, Oct 14, 2018
    Suspect this is a precursor to a UCL debut. That said, it’s probably the lowest profile League A match available.
     
  14. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #139 balu, Oct 21, 2018
    UCL group stage, Matchday 3

    Group E
    AEK Athens - Bayern Munich: KULBAKOV (BLR)
    Ajax - Benfica: BUQUET (FRA)

    Group F
    Hoffenheim - Lyon: UNDIANO MALLENCO (ESP)
    Shakhtar Donetsk - Manchester City: DEL CERRO GRANDE (ESP)

    Group G
    Roma - CSKA Moscow: SIDIROPOULOS (GRE)
    Real Madrid - Victoria Plzen: GRINFELD (ISR)

    Group H
    Young Boys - Valencia: TREIMANIS (LVA)
    Manchester United - Juventus: MAZIC (SRB)

    Mazic gets the clear marquee match, Del Cerro Grande with a relatively big appointment. Treimanis, Kulbakov, and Grinfeld get back-to-back assignments. Grinfeld with a seemingly small match, but with Real Madrid in trouble this match could be much bigger than it appears.
     
  15. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #140 balu, Oct 22, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2018
    Group A
    Club Brugge - Monaco: OLIVER (ENG)
    Dortmund - Atletico Madrid: TAYLOR (ENG)

    Group B
    PSV - Tottenham: VINCIC (SVN)
    Barcelona - Inter: HATEGAN (ROU)

    Group C
    PSG - Napoli: ZWAYER (GER)
    Liverpool - Red Star Belgrade: SIEBERT (GER)

    Group D
    Lokomotiv Moscow - Porto: MADDEN (SCO)
    Galatasaray - Schalke: BASTIEN (FRA)

    Back-to-back appointments for Vincic, debuts for Siebert and Madden. Oliver, Hategan and Zwayer with big matches.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #141 MassachusettsRef, Oct 22, 2018
    Fascinating assigning. Rosetti is clearly looking to identify and establish the next generation, which will have big implications for 2022.

    A big question is what that will mean for EURO 2020. There's going to be a lot of competition for those slots now, as a bunch of referees will be on the rise right as others are starting to fade out.
     
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  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #142 MassachusettsRef, Oct 23, 2018
    I think the English assignments in Group A are reversed.
     
  18. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #143 balu, Oct 23, 2018
    Right, I can't edit anymore, so:

    Group A
    Club Brugge - Monaco: OLIVER (ENG)
    Dortmund - Atletico Madrid: TAYLOR (ENG)
     
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  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #144 MassachusettsRef, Oct 23, 2018
    Fixed it. Couldn't do it on my phone earlier.
     
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  20. jasonakramer

    jasonakramer Member

    Apr 27, 2016
    #145 jasonakramer, Oct 24, 2018
    Thoughts on the disallowed goal in PSV-TOT, apparently for Kane interfering with play in an offside position?
    https://streamja.com/JWGb
     
  21. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    #146 socal lurker, Oct 24, 2018
    I'd love to see the explanation. I don't see interference by the OSP player.
     
  22. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #147 Geko, Oct 24, 2018
    I can see them disallowing it if the defender on the post is TRYING to get to the ball and Kane's in the way... but you can't interfere with someone who isn't moving.
     
  23. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #148 MassachusettsRef, Oct 24, 2018
    Or who has no chance of getting the ball, anyway. The ball enters the net 2/3 of the way toward the left post (defending side) while the defender in question is standing adjacent to the right post. And it was hit at pace from 8 yards away. There's not a chance in the world this was being stopped. Shockingly poor call given the Laws and known instructions.
     
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  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #149 MassachusettsRef, Oct 24, 2018
    From later in the match, this is interesting:

    https://streamable.com/m09wj

    It absolutely has to be a red card. Red card is the expected decision.

    But given the touch from the attacker around the keeper, which is straight into the path of the defender, it's really not DOGSO (how can you call something DOGSO if the defender is more likely to possess the ball than the attacker, based on the last touch?). It looks like DOGSO, but no OGSO is present at the moment the foul occurs. I think there's enough to classify this as SFP, but it's not obvious--particularly given the left studs from Lloris don't appear to actually hit the opponent and the foul is more with the tucked right leg/knee.

    Would be fascinated to see what VAR would do with this. Probably not enough to overturn, but I also don't think it would be deemed clearly wrong if only yellow was initially awarded.
     
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  25. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    #150 sulfur, Oct 24, 2018
    I was looking at this, and if I were doing a video test, this breaks down to a caution every time:
    * Likelihood of control is gone (defender is getting that ball), so DOGSO out
    * Lead studs down, contact is knee to shin, thus not SFP by considerations

    Having said that -- I think that you're spot on when you say that red is the expected decision IN THE GAME.

    It's a great example of the "classroom" vs "real world" and I'm glad you brought it up.
     
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