2018-2019 UEFA Season Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, May 29, 2018.

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  1. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Marciniak/Raczkowski for Barcelona-Lyon, Orsato/Irrati for Bayern-Liverpool.
     
  2. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Apparently it was supposed to be Mazic for Bayern-Liverpool, but he was removed since leaving for China.
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, that makes sense. Using two different referees from the same country on both legs in the knockout stage is not something you normally see.

    Of course, in the next round you might have to see it based on how the limited pool of referees is concentrated in a few countries. But historically, it's not something UEFA has often done.
     
  4. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Europa League Round of 16, Leg 2

    Dynamo Kyiv - Chelsea: STIELER (GER)
    Inter Milan - Frankfurt: HATEGAN (ROU)
    Benfica - Dinamo Zagreb: AYTEKIN (GER)
    RB Salzburg - Napoli: DEL CERRO GRANDE (ESP)
    Krasnodar - Valencia: TAYLOR (ENG)
    Slavia Prague - Sevilla: KULBAKOV (BLR)
    Arsenal - Rennes: TREIMANIS (LVA)
    Villareal - Zenit: SOARES DIAS (POR)

    Surprising big appointment for Treimanis. Taylor's, Hategan's, and Kulbakov's third EL knockout match this season.
     
  5. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    Surprised no commentary on Kuipers in what was a very eventful Juventus-Atlético game. A few of my comments

    -Superb man management. Tense game was managed without many cards. Excellent personality and presence, as usual.
    -Juventus had a goal annulled 3 minutes in for a dubious foul on the GK by Ronaldo. I “think” Kuipers blew play dead before the ball ended up in the goal. Not ideal, because now the entire sequence becomes unreviewable. At least, I think so?
    -There was a pretty borderline backpass no call. Looping clearance ... I would have called it in my games. Don’t remember when it happened though ... I think second half.
    -Penalfy for Juve in 85’ was interesting. Kuipers looked blocked, I think he relied on AR2 for help. On one replay there’s a push, but to me it seems as though Bernardeschi trips HIMSELF. Apparently not a clear and obvious error. Didn’t take long for VAR to confirm the decision, I guess.
    -Potenfial penalfy for Atlético in stoppage time. VERY surprised there was no VAR review for what seemed a clear barge by Chiellini. Kuipers restarted play with a drop ball. It was all very confusing and extremely intense. I was certain an OFR and 96’ penalty were imminent.

    Any thoughts on these incidents or other talking points?
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I only saw the second half.

    That alleged backpass is never getting called. The appeal was half-hearted.

    The penalty is easy. Kuipers didn’t need help. He just waited to make sure the ball didn’t end up in the net. You can see from is body language he was always calling it. It is a CLEAR push in the back. The defender’s arm was extended 100%. Honestly I don’t even know what’s to discuss. You can say the attacker fell easily but guess what? If a defender doesn’t extend his arm fully to push his opponent from behind when he’s beat and chasing him, there’s no foul to exaggerate. Focusing on the tripping aspect is missing the point.

    Not to pick on you, but why have an OFR in stoppage time? What on earth was clearly wrong there? The defender cuts in front of the attacker a bit but the attacker throws himself theatrically into the defender, too. I honestly thought at first glance that the attacker might have committed misconduct and the one replay we got to see didn’t convince me otherwise. There’s no way that’s a penalty. Maybe a foul coming out. Kuipers stopped for the injury and went dropped ball. Think about the fact that Atlético players, in that moment and given the stakes, accepted the decision without an OFR. That tells you all you need to know.
     
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  7. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    I figured the lack of commentary was simply because he reffed a fantastic game from start to finish.
     
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  8. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    How was this deliberate body check by Chielini (a known offender) not given as a penalty ??

    1105737518119571456 is not a valid tweet id
     
  9. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see Chielini shielding the ball. He is the one that gets hit in the back, granted you could give an argument about within playing distance, but most cases I don't think that is going to be called at that level, with neither of them actually being within a realistic playing distance to the ball.
     
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  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. Chielini isn’t getting called for a penalty, even if you can be sure he sought out the contact, when he’s the one who gets his back run into.

    You can make a letter of the law argument that he impeded his opponent’s progress. Practically, a better argument could be made that he got charged from behind. Kuipers split the difference, stopped for the injury (which gave VAR time to review in case it was clearly a penalty) then went with the dropped ball. Sensible and calm refereeing in a big moment.
     
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  11. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Never a penalty kick. Chiellini (who I find more loathsome as a player than even Ramos) has position first and is just good defending.

    It's probably more of a foul coming out than anything else.
     
  12. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    As regards the above comments...
    Chielini clearly barges sideways into him , taking him out whereas the number 10 never deviates his run . The ball is irrelevant when there is a deliberate foul .
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You clearly see what you want to see and have determined what you want to determine, so this is pretty much pointless. But from a physics standpoint, when two people are running in the same direction and Player A's receives contact from Player B squarely in his back, you can't really say Player A "barges sideways into him."

    You can say Chiellini cut off his path. You can say Chiellini slowed down to ensure and increase the severity of contact. But it's patently false that Chiellini "barges sideways into him." And that's why no one here, so far, is arguing for a penalty.
     
  14. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the 5-6 years I’ve really followed European soccer closely, I think Kuipers is the best “total package” of a referee that I’ve seen. He may not be the very best at one particular aspect (but I do think he’s the best man-manager I’ve seen), but his overall “combined score” is probably the best I’ve seen.
     
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  15. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Why should I care I’m a Barca fan I’m neutral .
    Look elsewhere .. online .. Twitter etc
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think I ever said you did care. But now that you mention it, though I don't know why, you clearly do.

    You want me to "look elsewhere" for what? You came and asked for opinions here. If our opinions here should be dictated by what you can read elsewhere... then what's the point of asking for our opinions?
     
  17. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    You suggested that it was only ME who thought it was a penalty ... well that’s patently incorrect .. hence the suggestion to try outside this tiny little world
     
  18. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looking at Twitter for opinions on referees.

    Am I supposed to laugh or shake my head at this statement?
     
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  19. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    Pretty sure I can find people on Twitter that think the world is run by a race of super-intelligent lizard people from Mars. And people that think it was a penalty.

    But the fact is, we disagree with each other A LOT in this forum...and if there is no one here (other than you) making the case that it's a penalty, well, that says something.
     
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  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Get out of here with this garbage. Point me to the place where I suggested you're the only person in the world who thought it was a penalty. I literally said no one here is arguing for a penalty and qualified it with "so far." I never said what you said and you're making things up. It's a penalty-area collision at a critical moment in a competitive soccer match with hundreds of millions of eyes on it... of course there are people who think it's a penalty. Doesn't mean they are correct.

    You came here "this tiny little world" and asked a question. You know the audience. You got an answer. If you always knew you'd prefer the answer you could find elsewhere, again, why bother asking here?

    You seem to be really invested in something that you're completely wrong about. That must be frustrating.
     
  21. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I think MASS is implying that a majority of the people posting on this forum are current referees, former referees, or having a very intricate working of the laws. Occasionally we get some outsiders who come in from different forums.

    I think you have been the only person to ask for penalty. One poster said "potential" pk but they were more curious about the lack of OFR (on field review).
     
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  22. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    • Cautioned for trolling
    Don’t be such a drama queen ffs

    I was clear in what I said. It’s you putting words into your own mouth :)

    Only one in the world is you talking not me . Read carefully next time ;)
     
  23. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Fair enough ..

    I thought coming in this thread is get rational responses , sadly not apart from yours , of course
     
  24. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You did get rational responses. You just didn’t like them and decided to double down.
     
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  25. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Italian AR’s have some of the most lazy-looking mechanics and project a lackadaisical manner that I don’t care for at all. AR2 looked unsure when to raise the flag on Bayern’s last scoring chance.
     
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