2018-2019 UEFA Season Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, May 29, 2018.

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  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #26 MassachusettsRef, Aug 1, 2018
    Huge news. Am very interested, and slightly concerned, to learn what the "personal reasons" might be.

    Also interested to find out how/why Rosetti got this job. He hasn't been a big player in UEFA. I would have thought Hugh Dallas was next in line if Collina ever left in the near-term. Total speculation, but this could be a signal about the future of VAR in UEFA. It also could just be a changing of the guard and shift to the slightly younger generation (while keeping the job in Italian hands), of course.
     
  2. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #27 code1390, Aug 1, 2018
    At this point I'd be pretty shocked not to see VAR in the group stage of the Champions league next year considering the World Cup went okay (at least compared to expectations).
     
  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    #28 socal lurker, Aug 1, 2018
    Sometimes that is code for "pushed out but want to let him leave gracefully." If that is what it means here, it could suggest there will be a meaningful change in some areas.
     
  4. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    #29 RedStar91, Aug 1, 2018
    Total speculation on my part, but I think big reason is that Dallas simply doesn't have the accomplishments in his refereeing career as Rosetti. Also, Rosetti has much more experience being head of referees than Dallas. Rosetti was in charge of the Russian program for a while and I think he had a major role in Italy as well as admin.

    I think the days of just appointing some "average" or "non-distinguished" former international referee to these type of positions are over. You have to have cache and name recognition for these roles. Look at who has PRO hired to be GM. They hired Walton, Premier League referee, and, now, Webb, FIFA World Cup Final referee. Whoever PRO hires after Webb will have a level of experience that is similar or close to Webb. I doubt you'll see someone like Alex Prus or Michael Kennedy hired.

    Dallas had a solid international career, but he never did any major Final other than a 4th official on the World Cup Final. "Rosetti refereed the opening and final match of Euro 2008" sounds better than "Dallas was the 4th official on the 2002 World Cup Final" on a press release and lends more credibility.
     
  5. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #30 code1390, Aug 1, 2018
    Does anyone want to take a guess at who will ref the Super Cup in a couple weeks?
     
  6. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    #31 London_ref, Aug 1, 2018
    Dallas will turn 61 in October, so maybe he might be considering retirement in the not too distant future.

    Rosetti, at 50, could potentially have this role as long as Collina did, maybe longer.
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #32 MassachusettsRef, Aug 2, 2018
    I'll guess Marciniak... mainly because it's Marciniak, and it just got announced today.

    Hategan is FO.
     
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  8. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #33 balu, Aug 3, 2018
    So no Marciniak for the UCL Final? ;)
     
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  9. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    #34 London_ref, Aug 3, 2018
    This will be the 3rd year in which I predict Skomina to get the CL final. Surely, form-permitting it's his to lose.

    Turpin, Mateu or maybe Collum are good options for the EL final.
     
  10. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #35 RefIADad, Aug 18, 2018
    I didn’t feel like starting a Serie A ref thread, so I’ll just leave this here. Watching the Juventus match on ESPN+ replay. Those Diadora pink referee shirts the Italians wear are awesome. We need that as an official color in the US.
     
  11. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    #36 fischietto, Aug 18, 2018
    Beyond the jerseys ... Pasqua himself had a great game. Interesting VAR vs GLT incident as well
     
  12. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #37 RefIADad, Aug 18, 2018
    That GLT/VAR situation was pretty wild, but eventually I think it was the correct call.

    What horrified me was when the Chievo players rolled their GK over when he was obviously unconscious. I know they were in a state of panic, but you just can’t do that.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #38 MassachusettsRef, Aug 20, 2018
    The UCL Playoffs are big money affairs and it's where we first see the Elite referees. Leg 1 appointments:

    Benfica : PAOK - MAZIC (SRB)
    BATE : PSV - ZWAYER (GER)
    Crvena Zvezda : Red Bull Salzburg - ORSATO (ITA)
    Ajax : Dynamo Kyiv - TURPIN (FRA)
    MOL Vidi : AEK Athens - ROCCHI (ITA)
    Young Boys : Dinamo Zagreb - UNDIANO MALLENCO (ESP)

    With the reformatting this year of the UCL and UEL, you will see more Elite referees in the UEL playoffs this season. For leg 1, they include:

    Mateu Lahoz, Kralovec, Collum, Bastien
     
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  14. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    #39 RedStar91, Aug 27, 2018
    Leg 2 Appointments:

    Benfica : PAOK - Brych (GER)
    BATE : PSV - Taylor (ENG)
    Crvena Zvezda : Red Bull Salzburg - Cakir (TUR)
    Ajax : Dynamo Kyiv - Skomina (SLO)
    MOL Vidi : AEK Athens - Marcianak (POL)
    Young Boys : Dinamo Zagreb - Kuipers (NET)

    With all the ties pretty much in the balance, all the big names as expected are picked.

    Looks like Cakir isn't going to China just yet. We should see him for the group stages at least.

    Taking into account both legs, the only real massive surprise, for me, is no Mateu Lahoz. Instead they went with Mallenco. Could be a sign that the title for Spain's #1 referee is up for grabs again.

    Only surprise, kind of, is Taylor over Oliver, but I guess they will be battling it out to see who is England's #1.

    There seems to be no fall out for Brych and his insubordination towards Collina and FIFA over the World Cup.
     
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  15. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    #40 balu, Sep 5, 2018
    Selected UEFA Nation League appointments

    League A

    Germany - France: ORSATO (ITA)
    Italy - Poland: ZWAYER (GER)
    Switzerland - Iceland: OLIVER (ENG)
    England - Spain: MAKKELIE (NED)

    League B

    Czech Republic - Ukraine: TAYLOR (ENG)
    Wales - Ireland: TURPIN (FRA)
    Turkey - Russia: SOARES DIAS (POR)
    Northern Ireland - Bosnia and Herzegovina: KRALOVEC (CZE)

    League C

    Slovenia - Bulgaria: MASSA (ITA)
    Albana - Israel: KASSAI (HUN)
     
  16. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #41 code1390, Sep 5, 2018
    Kassai in a League C match is interesting.
     
  17. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    #42 fischietto, Sep 5, 2018
    I am withholding judgment to the relevance of Nations League appointment importance until I myself fully grasp what the hell this competition even is.

    It’s not for lack of trying — every article I read, every video I watch, leaves me with more questions than answers!

    As a big fan of Orsato, I am nonetheless excited for his big game!
     
  18. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #43 code1390, Sep 5, 2018
    It seems like everyone who writes an article makes it way too complicated.

    55 teams split into four leagues which are further split into groups. Winning your group gets you promoted to a higher league and the opposite gets you relegated to a lower league. The results of the Nations League will set the seeding for the Euro 2020 qualifying draw. After the Euro 2020 Qualifying, the top four teams from each league who didn't qualify when have a playoff for the final four spots in Euro 2020. This guarantees at least one nation from all four leagues. Basically there will be one League D minnow at Euro 2020.

    Did that make sense?
     
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  19. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    #44 fischietto, Sep 6, 2018
    Yes in fact it did. Thank you. I was really caught up on how this figured into Euro 2020 qualification when qualifiers were still also occcurring. Now I see how it fits in.
     
  20. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #45 MassachusettsRef, Sep 6, 2018
    I think I said this summer that these four--who weren't even at the WC as referees--could be the big names for EURO 2020, given all the upcoming retirements and turn over. Looks like UEFA is going to test that theory right out of the gate.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #46 MassachusettsRef, Sep 6, 2018
    It makes sense but it seems so weird to me. Because the issue of qualifying playoffs will revert back to how teams do in the fall of 2018 without taking into account at all how they did in 2019.

    Let's say a League D minnow finishes 3rd place in their group by 1 point in the qualifying campaign that takes place in 2019 (March-November). That means they fall 1 point short of qualifying directly for EURO 2020. If they did not finish in the top 4 of League D in the fall of 2018, they don't go to the playoffs for EURO 2020 (which take place in March 2020). A team could finish last place in its group for 2019 qualifying, without ever winning a game, and still go to the qualifying playoffs if they perform in the 6 games this fall.

    In effect, a team that beats up on other minnows this fall will be rewarded MORE than a team that falls just short against much tougher competition in 2019.

    I get why UEFA has done this--it lends excitement to "friendlies," offers UEFA more control and should make it more money. And I readily accept that my example (or an example like it with League C) will be rare. But it's still weird. And the weirdness leads to confusion. I doubt this exact system will stand for 2024.
     
  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #47 MassachusettsRef, Sep 6, 2018
    It's also worth noting that this system is ripe for match-fixing. If you're a League B or League C team that is struggling heading into the final two matches this November, there is a HUGE incentive to lose and get demoted a league so that you have an easier time qualifying for the playoffs next time particularly because it does not harm you at all for the qualifying stage proper. Maintaining your League status does absolutely nothing for you, whereas promotion helps (playoff entry, more prestige and better competition) while demotion also helps (easier path to qualify for major tournaments). That's not a smart structure.

    Of course, none of this is about refereeing. But it's still interesting.
     
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  23. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    #48 fischietto, Sep 6, 2018
    Ok ... honest question.

    Why is the Rudiger incident NOT VC? I get it wasn’t intentional, but we are taught not to judge intent but to judge action. If extending your studs into an opponents neck doesn’t endanger the safety of an appointment, what does?

    I don’t think RC would have been the “expected” call, but it’s hard to reconcile that with the language of the law ... and current VAR interpretation.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #49 MassachusettsRef, Sep 6, 2018
    I don't think many people are watching this match, so video would help. Doubt this will stay up, but for now...



    That's only one perspective, of course. But Pavard is sliding under Rudiger and Rudiger is clearly off-balance. Maybe he intentionally pushed his foot into the neck. But maybe he really has no where else to put his foot and he tries to gain balance. It's hard to say. No, aren't supposed to read intent but we also have to put the result into context. If a player slides under another player and gets stepped on, it can't automatically be VC. Maybe this is, maybe this isn't. I could certainly be convinced that it is with other or better angles/context. But the fact that there's doubt at all here makes no card the expected result.

    Also, there is no VAR in the Nations League.
     
  25. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    #50 fischietto, Sep 6, 2018
    Should have linked the video... my mistake.

    My VAR thought was more along the lines of ... what would happen with VAR in that situation? Interesting hypothetical.
     
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