2018-2019 UEFA Season Referee Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, May 29, 2018.

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  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The week after the UCL Final pretty much marks the start of the next season. Qualifying matches for the UCL start June 26 (though, admittedly, we're talking about clubs from Gibraltar, Kosovo, Andorra and San Marino). Anyway, UEFA published its list of Elite Referees today.

    ELITE GROUP
    Aytekin (GER)
    Bastien (FRA)
    Brych (GER)
    Cakir (TUR)
    Collum (SCO)
    Eriksson (SWE)
    Gil Manzano (ESP)
    Hategan (ROU)
    Karasev (RUS)
    Kassai (HUN)
    Kralovec (CZE)
    Kuipers (NED)
    Makkelie (NED)
    Marciniak (POL)
    Mateu Lahoz (ESP)
    Mazic (SRB)
    Oliver (ENG)
    Orsato (ITA)
    Rocchi (ITA)
    Sidiropoulos (GRE)
    Soares Dias (POR)
    Skomina (SVN)
    Taylor (ENG)
    Turpin (FRA)
    Undiano Mallenco (ESP)
    Zwayer (GER)

    So Bastien, Gil Manzano and Soares Dias on. Atkinson and Fernandez Borbalan off via retirement (also Thomson and Tagliavento retired in December, when Oliver and Taylor got promoted).

    I think the next two seasons are going to see a big changing of the guard in UEFA. Rocchi, Kuipers, Undiano Mallenco and Mazic are all 45 so all could retire in December. I believe Rocchi and Undiano Mallenco might even be compelled to retire, because I don't believe the Italian or Spanish FAs allow their FIFAs to go past age 45. Regardless, even if those four don't leave this year, their days are numbered. As are Kassai's and Eriksson's. You're going to see some of the newer names step up and take some of the really big group stage matches this fall. And I bet you're going to see more promotions in December.

    Insofar as the UCL Final goes, it feels like a broken record now but I think Skomina has to go in as the favorite unless he has a disastrous World Cup. It's almost like a "yes/no" referendum on him this year (whereas last season it was a race with Mazic). If he fails and presuming a Spanish team is involved in the match, I think you're looking at Turpin, Collum, Orsato and Marciniak as the next tier of candidates. I'm not sure you can venture outside those 5 + Mateu Lahoz. The next sort of tier of officials--Oliver, Makkelie, Sidiropoulos, Hategan, etc., will get very good matches this season but none of them have done enough so far to be considered for a final--they need more time.
     
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  2. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree on your list, except I thought it odd that Marciniak wasn't used more this year. I looked back at the assignments, and he was used in the round of 16 but he had the quarters between Bayern and Benfica the year before. While not even enough to call it a "regression", I find it interesting that he wasn't given a quarter when Oliver was, and a difficult one at that. Obviously that could be as simple as family emergencies or other stuff, but it's interesting.

    Is there a reason why you wouldn't throw Cakir or Brych in there, too?
     
  3. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe it was quasi-public that he was supposed to have a semi final, but was unable to accept it due to an injury.
     
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  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Marciniak has a tough match and then was injured. Otherwise I think he gets a semi or the EL Final. I wouldn’t read it as a regression.

    Until proven otherwise I’ll work under the impression that the CL Final referee won’t be repeated. That’s why no Cakir and Brych. Also it sounds like Cakir could go to China after the WC, anyway.
     
  5. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ah, makes sense.

    Yeah I didn't even think to check if Cakir or Brych had done a final before, but that absolutely makes sense.
     
  6. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member+

    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    Des Moines, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Regarding Oliver getting a QF this season, I still think UEFA and Collina gave him that assignment thinking the odds of the tie becoming as heated as it eventually did were slim. Now in my opinion, his courage in awarding that penalty and sending Buffon off for his actions give him a much bigger boost than if it was a routine Madrid advancement.

    I completely agree with MassRef that Oliver will need - and get - more time before being in consideration for a final. However, it wouldn't completely surprise me to see him get a first leg semi this year if he does well.
     
  7. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Who's the favorite for the Super Cup? Turpin?
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree with this. I think he and Makkelie will be fighting to see who the next big thing is. Wouldn’t be surprised to see one or both get a semifinal. They are the sort of referees who could be in consideration for the Euro 20 final without even attending WC 18 as referees.
     
  9. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I don't know about Italy, but Spain definitely has a mandatory retirement age for FIFA referees of 45. They also have a mandatory age of 45 for working in La Liga. Meaning, once you hit 45 you not only have to step down from the FIFA list, but also from refereeing in La Liga full stop.

    Velasco Carballo was forced to retire and step down once he hit 45.

    Mallenco will be done in December which will put an end to a quite lengthy FIFA referee career. He has been a FIFA referee since 2004. To last for 14 years as a FIFA referee in one of the biggest leagues in the world is quite an accomplishment, especially in a league with so much scrutiny. He refereed multiple El Clasicos and did about as good of a job as you can on a, at times, seemingly impossible game to referee.

    His international career was quite interesting. He was supposed to be the guy to replace Mejuto Gonzalez as Spain's number one referee. He went to the 2010 World Cup. He did okay. He got a knockout match in that tournament and was forced to go home with Spain advancing all the way.

    That following season (2010-2011) he ended up getting a CL quarterfinal first leg match between Man U and Chelsea and didn't end up having a good game. He ignored his AAR's input on a last minute penalty appeal for Fernando Torres and he seemingly never really recovered internationally after that. I believe that was his high water mark in the Champions League as far as assignments went.

    For some reason, UEFA and Spain decided to go with Carballo as Spain's number one even though Carballo could never referee any of the big matches in Spain due to him being from Madrid. In Spain you can't referee teams from your city/region. So Carballo could never referee Barca vs. Real or Real vs. Atletico and Barca vs. Atletico.

    Carballo ended up representing Spain at Euro 2012, World Cup 2014 and Euro 2016 and had debacles in Euro 2012 and World Cup 2014.

    Mallenco constantly still got CL games and would get knockout matches in the round of 16, but, for whatever reason, never was given a chance to become Spain's number one referee.
     
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  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Has Eriksson had it? They could give it to him as a retirement/consolation prize.

    But I’d say Hategan or Karasev are two good options who likely won’t be in consideration for the UCL Final. The problem with Turpin is he’s sort of vaulted past being a Super Cup ref to a UCL ref. Putting him on that match restricts you if you care about not repeating a referee on the two finals.
     
  11. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    No way will Turpin see Atletico and Simeone so soon after the game he had in London.

    My guess it is a battle between Brych and Cakir for that match, especially with it being Atletico vs. Real Madrid. Neither of them have had the match either.
     
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  12. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Eriksson had it in 2013 between Bayern and Chelsea.
     
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  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These are two good points.

    It’s probably either Brych/Cakir because it’s a big game and UEFA wants to reward one of them. Or Karasev/Hategan to gamble with someone new on a relatively meaningless match.
     
  14. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    How about Oliver or Makkelie? :D
     
  15. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    Keep an eye on Gil Manzano. He did a handful of Champions and Europa league matches this past season. He's from Extremadura, which doesn't even have a club in Spanish Second Division, so he's free to referee the entire Spanish First Division. And he got some big games this past year: both Barcelona derby matches, the Seville derby, Barcelona vs Atlético Madrid, the Derby de la Comunitat (Villarreal vs Valencia), plus the Copa del Rey final.
     
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  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It might not be too long until he, Oliver, and Makkelie are the top 3 in Europe. Collum and Turpin will be in the mix, too. And Marciniak is the other obvious candidate for a long career, presuming he doesn't pull a Clattenburg.

    The big questions right now are who will rise to the top from Germany and Italy--I tend to think Zwayer and Orsato are not the next big things from those nations. Gil Manzano is 34 and Oliver is 33. Germany and Italy need to figure out who their equivalents are going to be. Zwayer is young, but I'm not sure he has "it." Orsato will only be around for a couple years.

    Siebert, who just got promoted to Group 1 and is 34, might be the long-term German option. Similarly, Massa, who is 37 and also just got promoted to Group 1, could be the designated Italian for advancement. Germany has a ton of options heading to Euro 2020, but Italy needs to figure their situation out quickly because Rocchi, Orsato, Banti, and Mazzoleni (who probably constitute their top 4 at this very moment) are all out of the picture by then.
     
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  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eriksson will retire after his friendly this upcoming weekend. So the Elite list is already down one official.
     
  18. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Shows how difficult it really is to go out on "top" at the highest level and maintain consistent performances over the years. Eriksson went from a dark horse World Cup Final candidate in 2014 and an almost lock for a CL Final appointment to barely getting a Europa League knockout appointment and ending his career on a meaningless pre-World Cup friendly.
     
  19. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Don't forget he had an EL Final, a Super Cup, a Euro semi, and a couple of UCL semis in his CV!
     
  20. YoungRef87

    YoungRef87 Member

    DC United
    United States
    Jan 5, 2018
    How did Eriksson fall so far out of grace?
     
  21. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I think Makkalie only got some Europa League matches this past season and I'm unsure whether they were in the advanced stage. I've seen him do a number of Eredivisie games and he's a very good match official.
     
  22. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He had Manchester United vs Sevilla and Barcelona v Roma in the UCL knockout stages.
     
  23. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Eriksson retiring without officiating the CL final is surprising; considering how highly regarded he was within UEFA not long ago as @RedStar91 points out.

    Yet still not as surprising as FdB or Bo Larsen not getting the assignment.
     
  24. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Eriksson has cited annoyance with the FIFA ref hierarchy as the main reason (poor communication and favouritism and such). I'm guessing at least part of it is sour grapes but apparently he wasn't told personally that he wasn't going until more than a month after the lists hit the papers.
    He'll be working for the Swedish broadcasters during the WC.
     
  25. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd

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