News: 2018-2019 offseason discussion catch all thread

Discussion in 'Houston Dynamo' started by AcetheTigah, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. *rey*

    *rey* Member+

    Feb 22, 2006
    Houston
    i've highlighted all the key words with a reminder that we're on a strict $5 per week allowance from Papa Brener.

    seriously, i want an upcoming South American in the ATL mode or even Alenssandrini like everyone else.....BUT that ain't gonna happen sports fans.

    frking Jordan is going to pull out some obscure Albanian midfielder playing in the Hungarian 'OTP Bank Liga' come the summer because his 'dollar per Opta metric' is high. at this point they would be better off letting that Dynamo egamer join the scouting staff with his FIFA19 knowledge.
     
  2. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #652 juvechelsea, Mar 4, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
    Every. Single. Sign. Pointing to over the hill. 29 years old, not a kid anymore, been playing pro since 2006. Massive MLS production fall off. Mexico calls him up less. 1 game in Russia where he played 13'. He has 1 goal in 2 years for Mexico. By about any metric he looks like he peaked c. 2016.

    Sorry but back end value is the "scared" end of the GM pool. You can guarantee the fans they will get a package labeled "Beasley." Fans recognize the name brand. The name brand periodically lives up to some simulacrum of what they used to be. But playing well once in a while is a ticket to missing the postseason. The smart "risky" money is on the Manotas and Elis end of the pool. The risk there is the player is generally not obviously marketable and you have to make an educated guess on promise. But I'd rather be betting on 10-20 goal players I can build a team around and sell on, versus old farts where any potential is some mix of nostalgia and unjustified optimism, or worse, the cynical milking of fans with a deceptive package.

    Last point, I think people would be less grumbly about Elis and Quioto if they had a better supporting cast and so much didn't ride on their shoulders. As I've noted, about 4 guys supply most of the assists for each other, and then 3 guys score. In that context their limitations will show up. Martinez wouldn't be an awful role player mid. The problem is we made him a 10. The forwards would be just fine if they could poach more. It's a prettier version of the anti Oduro complaints which were basically that he was no prime age Ching and shanked a shot against Philly. Thing being that team went on to be awful and it had a lot to do with there being a list of forwards brought in for that team far more useless than Oduro. To me at least some forward gripes are often team critiques. If we win and they get their goals no one breaks down Dalglish or Jaqua or Ngwenya that hard. But on a worse team a better player will get more crap because in that context it all depends on them to make anything happen. The others just had to get open for Dero or Davis crosses and finish enough.

    I think most teams in MLS would be happy with forwards good for about 40 goals and 25-30 assists together. The reasons this team is mediocre lie in the lines behind them. We don't have the 10 to supercharge the forwards, and we could score 58 goals and we would allow 58 back. GDS is not the productive 10 we need.
     
  3. DonJuego

    DonJuego Member+

    Aug 19, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now I don't disagree with anything said here. But its not the point. Desperation for different should not lead you to a known mistake. There are 10,000 things that the Dynamo could do different that are better than taking on GDS.
     
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  4. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1) New ownership
    2) Fire Jordan
    ......
    13289) Sign Two Saints
     
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  5. DynamoManiac

    DynamoManiac Member+

    Jan 27, 2014
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Signing GDS isn't thinking outside the box. It's the epitome of being inside the box. It's the way MLS has worked for a number of years now outside of Houston - sign an aging name player to a huge salary and hope he makes your team better and draws fans.

    The league is shifting away from that model now. You don't blow your cash on a past his prime player. You spend the money on transfer fees for younger players with a high ceiling and re-sale value.

    GDS is not going to turn this team suddenly into a playoff team. The last two seasons he was part of teams that arguably had better players than the Dynamo do yet missed the playoffs. In 2017, they finished dead last in the league.

    Why would you want to blow your cash on a guy who: 1) has shown ample evidence in recent years that he is past it, 2) hasn't shown that he can make a team better or take a team to the playoffs, 3) has no re-sale value, is just cash out the door?
     
  6. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I've heard this a few times now, make a high percentage likelihood mistake -- but err on the side of safe with the mistake -- rather than give the mistake GM the power to take a different risk which while running x% chance of mistake (and that batting average is lower than some other MLS teams) would at least have y% upside potential. If you don't trust the GM, fire the GM, don't exacerbate the mistakes by repeating them out to the next levels.

    I remember this argument being made on Bruin vs Late Career Ching. I remember this argument being made on Bruin vs Torres. I remember this argument being made on Manotas vs Torres. You know, a progression towards club record goalscoring. But "what about the unknown." Yeah, well, Senderos was a fairly known quantity. We got out of him roughly what the previous teams did. Ditto Leonardo and LA. Ditto AJ and LA. I am bored with being LA's dumping ground, and none of them have worked out. In theory, they all were safe late career guys. But that was delusion. They were being dumped by LA for a reason. And LA right now is not a playoff stalwart. Take the hint.

    Also, (1) we are not a regular playoff team, so low risk low reward name brand doesn't move the needle enough to change our outcomes (different way of saying he won't get us in the playoffs, but I think part of the deal is we have to take risks big enough -- like Elis and Quioto in the Xmas binge of 2016 -- where they can possibly change the outcome). And (2) as suggested, an older player not only has modest value to add soccer wise but has little or no resale value in some sort of selling club strategy to get us out of our financial hole.

    If you are going name brand and present value on the field, it needs to be someone so good (and probably expensive) they change the outcome of the games. Otherwise I'd rather we roll dice on getting a Manotas or Elis. Be real on those two. If RSL had our big three and their defense? That game ends 4-1.

    People are upset we aren't a playoff team and lobbing bricks at the somewhat clumsy but fast and productive forward. How about where it belongs, which is defenders who couldn't stop a guy standing a yard away. When Dallas' 5th back comes down and looks like the professional cleanup man, that tells you how bad your backline is.
     
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  7. DonJuego

    DonJuego Member+

    Aug 19, 2005
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #BrenerOut
     
  8. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Look, here's the deal, if you have the lowest payroll and then take few risks, try and create a low risk low reward team of others' castoffs, that is basically a recipe for guaranteed finishing below the red line. That is, right where your payroll says you should be. What stands between us and finishing right where our payroll says we should are the system and personnel with more value than what they cost.

    This is no longer a stacked team in a capped salary league, where if we need some filler, we go out and trade for or sign someone just kind of competent and low risk and then the rest of the team maybe makes them look good. Ngwenya, etc. This is, we don't pay what the rest of the league does, the lineup behind the forwards is subpar, and we are playing catchup. There is not enough excellence to leverage mere competence. They are going to stand or fall on their own two feet. We are looking for more excellence to lift the cheap and somewhat flawed lineup. You cannot short cut good and healthy. You can only get it young before it wants $10 million a year.

    The only other route out is spend the money. But trying to take leftovers from an LA team that is now missing the playoffs, and make them with them yourself, is naive. The system is not that good. This is not the fountain of youth. They are as broken as when they arrived.
     
  9. AcetheTigah

    AcetheTigah Member+

    Apr 6, 2005
    Woodlands, TX
    You guys don’t seem to be listening
    - I said to sign someone at an appropriate value or maybe we can sign someone undervalued.

    When they talked about Ibra coming to MLS everyone said no no no he’s too old too expensive etc etc

    Oh wait - he signed for 1MM a year!?!? What!?! How can that happen?

    That is why you are all prisoners in your own negativity

    Creativity, risk taking and forward thinking is necessary to be successful unless you are just hoping everyone else implodes
     
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  10. DynamoManiac

    DynamoManiac Member+

    Jan 27, 2014
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    A) Never saw anyone saying Ibra was too old. We all saw him score boatloads of goals in the Premier League just one season before, b) his contract was a special understand deal that involves a lot of money outside of the contract in endorsement support. Citing signing him for $1 mil is a meaningless number as it leaves out a lot of details.

    c) there was never any question that Ibra would come to MLS and sell out arenas and score goals. GDS has been here for a while. It has already been established that he does not sell out arenas, and for the past 2 years he has not scored goals and has generally been pretty mediocre. You know exactly what you are getting with him in MLS and it is already proven to not make a team better. D) he has a signed contract already, it is for $6 mil. It is possible that you could work out a deal to get him for less than $ 6mil? Maybe. Substantially less? No way.

    Curse you guys for making me agree with JC, but why in the world would you want a guy that you've been able to watch be crap for two seasons now in MLS? You aren't going to improve the team with an over the hill cast off from a team that had a worse record than you with a more talented roster just two years ago, and that wasn't much better than you despite a better roster last year.
     
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  11. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I get crap for my offseason wish lists but this is now Zelalem, Saief, and Parks who have come back this season. I think there is one other but the name misses me. Previous years have seen players like Garza. I looked up Garza's salary and <$200k. There is a returning USMNT market we aren't tapping, and contrary to excuses it is not gold plated.

    And then I will continue repeating myself that Alvin Jones is somehow still in Trinidad for club ball.
     
  12. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    Kevin Alvarez ended up at IFK Norrköping.
     

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