2018-19 Roster Movement Thread

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by vividox, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I know I'm a consistent Nemeth fan-boy, but I do think there is value in Vermes quote on this. He arrived in the day to day groove of NE, and not in sync with SKC. We didn't seen a ton, but there were moments when he played that he showed he still has some cool elements in his game. Also, Nemeth is a confidence guy. PV just gave him a mainline of the stuff.
    That said, we need a striker now, and one capable of being a plan b.
     
  2. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    They're forecasting Rowe at mid. I think he's an option to rest Roger, Felipe and might grab some wing minutes during national team/injury absence.
    A year ago, we'd have been doing backflips about landing Rowe. He is quite a nice player. He didn't mesh with BF but that happens. He's still in the national team discussion. He does make us younger (not young, but -er).
    We know he has a great engine, we know he's got talent. Rowe is a massive stop up from the Mapp, Davis and (crap, I forget the third one) sort of signing, where we could use what they used to have, but had to hope they were still alive (they were not). Rowe may not start more than a couple games, but he's the sort of player who we know can start a long string and be quite influential. I think this is a great addition.
    The other side of the Rubio deal might well be that he was looking for not only a bunch more money, but the sort of commitment to time on the field that PV clearly is not comfortable in giving him. Trading him now and picking up both a nice bit of change and Rowe is a good move, if you consider losing him for nothing next winter as the alternative.
     
  3. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    We are paying Fontas way more than bench money. We know it takes time to break into PV's system, but Fontas will have to start, a lot this year. The Barath move, we hope, is an upgrade on the Didic, Amor roll of CB for the future.
    So, either Ike gets his wish and is out, or we use the money from the Rowe deal to make him happy and we see a 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 (or 3-2-3-2) as a primary formation.
    3-2-3-2
    Fontas Ike Besler
    Ilie, Roger
    Russell, Felipe. Gerso
    Nemeth, Salloi
    3-5-2
    Fontas Ike Besler
    Wallace Zusi
    Russell, Felipe Rowe
    Nemeth Salloi
    3-4-3 (3-1-2-1-2-1 as it is now known)
    Fontas Ike Besler
    Ilie
    (2from)
    Zusi/Wallace/Rowe/Roger
    Felipe (Busio)
    Rusell, Salloi
    Nemeth
     
  4. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Back 3 as an emergency lineup only. You know this.
     
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  5. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    And if we go with a back 3, we all know it will really be a back 5.
     
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  6. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Yeah, I just got excited thinking about it. I mean, we will be in a back four the entire season. but PV's approach and our talent really could work with a 3-4-3.
    But yeah.
     
  7. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I actually think if Zusi and Wallace are our wingbacks it would be 3 in the back.

    To me, if Nemeth is out/rested and I have the option of starting Hurtado up top or going with a 3-5-2 with Zusi and Wallace as wingbacks, Illie/Roger (or Rowe) and Felipe in the middle and Salloi/Russell up top, I think we could do worse. And that could really change how people play us.
     
  8. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, I think the Rowe thing is really a "long term" look at replacing Roger, who did slow down a bit near the end of the season ... and I know it's almost as cliche as replacing Seth, but Roger isn't Roger without his range and workrate.
     
  9. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rowe's never played the way Roger plays, he's not been a physical presence like that.
     
  10. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    And how much of the problems with Roger is age and how much of it is Peter?

    Yeah, Peter did more squad rotation this year than ever, but he still doesn't use in-game subs with an eye towards keeping players fresh over multiple games. Where would Roger be if he was a 60/30 player and not asked to push through to 70/80/90 minutes every time he steps on the field.

    This is going to become a big issue as our core ages. We know that Matt, Graham, Roger aren't 34x90 players anymore, but they might very well be much more useful with a lot of early second half subs along with games off to keep the fresh, and to make sure their subs are also match fit.

    It's not playing every game that wears players out - they practice for a few hours pretty much every day. It's the time at the end of the game that takes the toll. Again, Peter was much better this year, but then he trusted his bench more, and we had some injuries that forced his hand at points.

    I honestly think Roger could transition into being a combination player as long as he's not often asked to go 90. Start some games with the expectation of going 60-65, and be prepared to be that high-energy super sub in others. But nothing in Peter's history shows he's prepared to use a player like that. Roger will start and play 90 until it breaks him, then mid-season we'll through a replacement that has no match fitness in the deep end to sink or swim.
     
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  11. lukeD

    lukeD Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like Rowe and we needed midfield depth, but for me, the Rowe for Rubio trade only works if there is something else coming at the CF position. Hurtado is straight up USL level. At best, he's your third forward. More importantly, the jury is still out on Nemeth at CF. He was great here his first time, when Dwyer took all of the CBs attention and he played wide. Last year, he did nothing that would indicate that he's capable of being an effective starting CF. No hold up play, limited link up play, couldn't generate his own shot, and frankly it looked like his teammates were intentionally not passing to him (go watch the Portland game if you question that).

    CF was a position of relative strength and now it is a position of weakness. Hopefully there is something more to come at the CF position but I'm not holding my breath given this groups history at the position.
     
  12. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FWIW from today's conference call with PV

     
  13. lukeD

    lukeD Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks Buzz. You're on top of it as always.

    Not sure what Peter watched last year to have confidence in that group as CFs. Neither Salloi nor Croizet is a CF. Hurtado is poor. If that is the group going into the season, SKC is one injury to Nemeth away from playing false 9 soccer.
     
  14. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was really thinking Rowe to the #10 and Felipe to the #8 (Roger's spot). Sorry for the confusion, you're absolutely right. To me though, Busio and Kuzain don't have that in them either, so I think right now our backup for Roger is Felipe and potentially Medranda when he's back.
     
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  15. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having Rowe added to the rest of the stable of backups (that he seems to trust more than he's trusted in depth in the past) like Croziet, Busio, Kuzain, eventually Medranda ... could help.
     
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yeah, or Rowe could be the next Mapp or Evans. Wasting away on (or off) the bench. And if pressed into service, full of rust and lack of match fitness, set up to fail. That's my fear.

    Not trusting or using your roster becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
     
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  17. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a "chicken or the egg" kinda thing ... did Vermes not trust his depth because it wasn't good or were they "not good" because he didn't trust them enough to play them so they "rotted" on the bench ... like you said earlier I think ... this past year was the first year he has used his bench with some success ... was it an "one off" or a trend? Who knows.
     
  18. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    He seemed to figure out using in-game subs - until the heat is on and he reverts back. I'll never forget that great Houston final that we won the game, but lost the series and we played high press for 90 brutal minutes with Houston having used 14 players being dead on its feet while we had 2 or 3 subs left at the end. That was peak Peter.
     
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  19. KopRules

    KopRules Member+

    May 31, 2011
    Brookside
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    PV’s conf call crushed my spirits on Rowe. I loved Nemeth when Don was baterring people inside, but I agree with others on here who are rightfully skeptical of Nemeth at CF. Seems like we have a talented squad coming back but a huge hole in the top of the formation. I’m usually a PV backer all the way, but think he’s mismanaging this one. I think he over thought what Rubio was versus what Rubio wasn’t. I sure hope I’m wrong and PV is right.

    I’ll ADD: if Nemeth can come in and be effective at CF, the squad depth and ceiling on 2019 is extremely high. I suppose that’s an off-season ‘gamble’ that many teams fanbases in mls would envy.
     
  20. kcscsupporter

    kcscsupporter Member+

    Apr 17, 2002
    D17
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i feel that nemeth will succeed in either of these two scenarios: 1. he plays in one of the wing positions, or 2. he plays with a striking partner up top. he's not a lone striker.
     
  21. vividox

    vividox Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 10, 2005
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    It's kind of amazing how many "forwards who would do well with a striking partner up top" we've played as lone CFs or wingers over the last eight years.
     
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  22. kcfooty

    kcfooty Member

    Feb 16, 2011
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And then proved it when they moved on...
     
  23. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s also amazing how many people that do well here flame out elsewhere.
     
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  24. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    To be fair, few forwards are the complete package. Most strikers would play better as part of a two striker system but have to make do as the lone one. Honestly, having two real attacking wingers like Salloi and Russell is more attacking support than many 9s get. Vermes wants a cf with good feet and good linkup, and he's right to. Dom never fit that bill, so no matter how many goals he scored, we were always gonna be a weaker team offensively with him on the pitch. Rubio was a huge upgrade in that regard.

    I think Nemeth can do well at that too. He's got great feet and is a clever passer. It's just a question of the dirty work, really.
     
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  25. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I get the sense from the Rowe interview on arriving with SKC that ol'Brad kinda messed with the heads of his players. I got that sense out of Nemeth, he arrived on the edge (ledge) and it sounds like that was what Rowe was feeling last season, as well.
    To be annoyingly mod, from taking a look at their passing and attacking numbers and positions, Nemeth showed that as a CF he will work almost exclusively in the 14 and 17 zones. Rubio drifted wider, in the 13 and 15 and a lot of his interplay was out there. He tried to get lost making runs into the central zones, and obviously did a decent job of that. Almost everything of worth that Shelton did was without the ball.
    We know Nemeth is good with the ball at his feet. He actually put himself in positions to score a couple more times than he did, but really looked low on mojo. His shots were timid.
    But we also know that Vermes wants what he wants. From the way he's talking, I think he wants a traditional central playing striker, who will be a fulcrum to elevate our most excellent wide attackers.
    I know I am pollyanna every year at this time (OTOH we are consistently decent), but I could see this group match or exceed (at least come close) to our record shattering attack from this season. Part of that is I see a continued upwards trajectory for Salloi. We know he works hard in the offseason and I think he will be as much better, again, as he has been. His shot is as quick and accurate as anyone in MLS. I could see him jumping from 14 to 18-22 goals in 2019, which would probably represent his last season with us. I can easily see Russell repeat or exceed his 10.
    To make this trade make sense, Nemeth has to connect those 2 and add some goals on his own. If Nemeth produced at the same rate he did in 2018, he ends a season ( using 2037 minutes as a full season, because that's what he played in 2015 for us) with 5-6 goals and 5-6 assists. That's not terrible for our attack. It doesn't quite replace what we got from Rubio (not close on the rate, of course) and is substantially better than what we got from Shelton. But Vermes was not going to give Rubio more minutes than he got this year, we know that. I think with a full preseason, a mojo refill and an 11 set up to play to his style, he can score more than that, and might be back in the range of 10 goals, 10 assists.
    If that happens, we win the west again and we're better set up to challenge for MLS Cup.
    Also, tossing this out: Our biggest disappointment in 2018 had to be Croizet. But he got better as the season progressed, and we ended at the point where he could be counted on to provide at least a shot of energy. Vermes likes this player. Vermes is not an idiot. We may well see Croizet look like a very different player in his second season in MLS (he would not to the first, or in the first couple hundred) to show vast improvement in year two in a new country, league.
     
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