2018-19 Offseason Player Movement Rumors & Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by jaykoz3, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You are probably about right. Though it will always be tough to rank us without any legit competition. The priority for me is reaching parity with and then passing Liga MX. Then becoming the best league in the Western Hemisphere. A league of choice for players in the Americas. I think we’re on our way to that. Hopefully the next CBA hastens the progress.

    All that said, I would be happy if Vancouver were willing to shell out $10 mln plus to replace Davies. I’m just not sure this guy is worth it.
     
  2. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m not so sure about that. Let’s look at 4 of the leagues mentioned. Belgium, Denmark, Portugal, and the Netherlands. The median TEAM salary in those leagues was $1.6 mln, $1.9 mln, $4.6 mln, and $7.7 mln. Meaning half the teams in the league spend more, half spend less. If we assume a 25 man roster, that produces an average salary of $64K, $76K, $184K and $308K respectively. MLS median wage team was SKC at $9.1 mln... with a 30 man roster that is an average of $303K. Taking out the bottom five wage earners bumps the average to about $352,000. Regardless, SKC’s average is pretty close to that of the league as a whole and they don’t have a top heavy lineup in terms of salaries. No huge DP contracts. The Netherlands too is pretty spot on.

    The rest are well below. The average wage for the median spending team in Denmark and Portugal is half the leagues overall average and in Belgium it is an insane 16% of the overall league average. That means the top spending teams pull up the average FAR more in those leagues than they do in the MLS. I would argue that the average salary is far more indicative of the average player in the MLS than it is in these other leagues.

    Taking it one step further, the average league in this study reports the wages of their top 25 or so players as near as I can gather. Barcelona’s average is based on just 23. If you simply use the top 575 wage earners in MLS (25 per team) and average their earnings, MLS’ average jumps to over $440K and the median comes in right at $200K. I’m not saying those bottom 115 are unimportant, but most spent most of the season on USL roster, not on the pitch for an MLS team.
     
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  3. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1087695661804457989 is not a valid tweet id
     
  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #304 JasonMa, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
    So, throwing out a scenario that's looking more and more likely. What happens if ATL and/or LAG aren't able to move one of their DP's by the roster deadline on March 1st (earlier for ATL actually I think because of CCL play)? Would MLS rule one of the DPs ineligible to play until the rosters met requirements? Would there be some sort of penalty imposed on the team (fines, lost points, etc)? Would MLS force a sale or trade at lower than market price to force the teams to be roster compliant?

    Unlike more recent rule changes I'd have issues if MLS announced some new rule allowing them to keep all 4. In the past the new rules have been put in place to allow the teams to acquire players (Beckham, Dempsey, Altidore, etc.) that would help the league and those players weren't officially signed until the new rule was figured out. Essentially LAG (or Seattle or whomever) went to the league and said "We've got this great opportunity to sign player X which will help us but also help the league, but we need a rule change". The league also quickly made sure the nw rules applied across the board.

    In this case though, this would be ATL and/or LAG going to the league and saying "We screwed up and signed an extra DP thinking we could move one of our DPs but we can't and now we don't meet roster guidelines, can you make a rule change to help us?". That I would see as unfair and regressing back to the "old days" of MLS where some teams seemed to get away with more things than others. Especially if it was done on the cusp of a new season where the rest of the league spent the offseason building their rosters to meet roster guidelines.

    Thoughts?
     
  5. Kombucha

    Kombucha Member+

    Jul 1, 2016
    Club:
    --other--
    They also should not be able to have more than 3 in the 18 and should not be able to gain any points as long as their roster is out of compliance. They still play the games, but can only prevent the opposing team from gaining points, not gain points themselves.

    MLS likely wouldn't be that extreme, but I bet that both teams are in compliance by the deadline and if not then MLS would alter a rule that allowed the team to pay some sort of penalty and not play the chosen DP.
     
  6. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since when has MLS come down hard on the Galaxy? They'll bend over backwards to help them out if it comes to it.
     
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  7. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    LA can either buy-out Gio or they can try to restructure Alessandrini's contract. He was only 400k over the TAM threshold last year. They can put him on a new contract at 1.5 million with a guaranteed pay increase up to over 2 million in the year Gio's contract expires.

    As for Atlanta.....I'd say Barco goes on loan somewhere for 6 months with the hope he kills in the U-20's and on loan or an offer comes in for Almiron that they want.
     
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  8. cpyanez2k

    cpyanez2k New Member

    NYCFC
    United States
    Jan 22, 2019
    Give teams a 4th DP or more TAM, GAM or PAM; if our beloved League truly wants to grow and to have a realistic chance to win the CCL, you need to allow teams to have depth with their rosters. This has doomed MLS teams in the past.

    In my opinion you can't have it both ways, parity and salary control won't allow the league to reach the next level.
     
  9. Kombucha

    Kombucha Member+

    Jul 1, 2016
    Club:
    --other--
    I think Barco's Transfer Fee is way to high to be come off the books with a loan.
     
  10. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So just say "You're ok ATL/LAG, don't worry that you broke the rules, we'll change them for you"?
     
  11. cpyanez2k

    cpyanez2k New Member

    NYCFC
    United States
    Jan 22, 2019
    They have not broken any rules, this is MLS. You make them as you go.:laugh:
     
  12. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This, I think they'll both figure something out. LAG just have to figure out what they want to do. Ideally they would clearly like to move Dos Santos, but no one inside the league is going to take on that salary for a guy who has scored 9 goals with 5 assists over the last two years and has had trouble staying healthy. Moving him outside the league is problematic because anyone taking him is going to want salary relief and that means he would still be a DP on your roster. Then again, eating a $5 mln buyout can't be too appetizing. I think PhillyMLS laid out the best case scenario for LAG. Hopefully they can get it done.

    As for Atlanta, apparently Newcastle have left their $20mln offer on the table, so ATL could take that. That said, MLS has an interest in ATL getting the most they can out of that sale. It makes no sense for them to force ATL to take less. I think ATL has a few other options too. They may be able to buy Barco down apparently. Though who knows if they have the TAM. Then again, perhaps they sell Villalba, grab some GAM in the process and that gives them the flexibility? I don't know.

    With that said, I know there is a lot of hate out there for LAG and some of the rule changes that have benefited them over the years. However, I don't think punishing two of your most ambitious clubs is a great move either. LAG are in this position because they brought in Ibrahimovic. Guy is awesome for this league. ATL are in this position because they spent 8 figures to bring in the South American player of the year in Pity Martinez. We want teams doing this type of thing. You certainly don't encourage ambition, if you reward those teams for doing that by forcing a team into a huge buyout or into completing the biggest sale in the league's history at below market value. Especially in the final year of a CBA. I get that sometimes we get pissed at some of the ambiguity of the league's rules, but I personally have zero issues with giving either of these teams a little temporary leeway. Especially if that leeway works its way into our next CBA and encourages greater ambition from other teams in the future.
     
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  13. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd rather that than MLS be governed by the ambition, or lack thereof of, of teams like New England and Houston.
     
  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LA is in this position because they re-signed Ibra to a DP contract after already having 3 DP contracts on the roster. They brought him in last year on a non-DP contract.

    There's no ambiguity to these rules though. Teams are allowed 3 DPs. ATL and LAG have signed 4 for 2019. Should we also allow them to sign 10 internationals and 35 players even though the limits are 8 international per team (+/- traded slots) and 30 players because its good for the league? Why even have roster rules then?

    This sin't the smallest teams complaining about the rest of the league moving away from them, this is two teams moving away from the rest of the league. Shouldn't Toronto or Seattle or LAFC or NYCFC also have had the option to sign a 4th DP this offseason if they wanted and not be penalized for it?

    Again, if they had made the announcement at the end of 2018 that they would allow a 4th DP this year I wouldn't have an issue (well, I'd be concerned about unbalancing the league but I wouldn't think anyone was getting an unfair advantage) but in this scenario where we get to opening weekend and the league has to make a rules change in order for LAG and ATL to be roster compliant I don't see how that isn't the same sort of 'Mickey Mouse' crap people used to complain about for years.
     
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  15. cpyanez2k

    cpyanez2k New Member

    NYCFC
    United States
    Jan 22, 2019
    MLS Mickey Mouse of 10 years ago would not be the same as MLS Mickey Mouse of 2019, especially if that 4th DP allows Atlanta, Red Bulls or Toronto to win the CCL. :laugh:
     
  16. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can see your point, but ATL is actively shopping Almiron and LAG is actively pursuing a solution for Gio/Allesandrini and were before the other DPs were signed. The league knew exactly what was going on and likely explicitly greenlit both.

    Personally, I think both will find a solution before the deadline. If I had to guess, LAG will restructure Allesandrini after finding no takers for dos Santos and Almiron will be sold. However, again, I don't think saying you can't resign Ibra because you haven't wrapped that up or you can't sign Martinez because you haven't completed the sale of Almiron make a single iota of sense.

    As for Toronto, they had 4 players making more than Barco last year, five making more than $1.295 mln and two others making more than DP threshold. I don't think they'll be crying.
     
  17. cpyanez2k

    cpyanez2k New Member

    NYCFC
    United States
    Jan 22, 2019
    Not a shock that someone from the Colorado front office is bitching about the big spenders.
     
  18. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #318 JasonMa, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
    Not a shock that a new member has no idea how incorrect labeling me as "Colorado Front Office" is...

    To your point though, did you miss the part where I said that I wouldn't have an issue if they had announced a 4th DP at the end of the 2018 season? This isn't about the spending, this is about the possibility of the rules being applied unequally, even in regards to the other big spending teams.
     
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  19. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    Transfer fee doesn't matter in this context. From how I read the rules you can get salary cap relief if the player's salary is paid for while he is on loan to another team. For a DP I assume that is only the salary portion that MLS is on the hook for, which is a couple hundred thousand. If that is taken care of then he would likely come off the books as a DP.

    The transfer fee matters if he is sold on or if there is a loan fee. Any money they receive for that has to be applied to the transfer fee and the salary outlay they made on the player.

    So they wouldn't be able to get any GAM from the loan fee unless it went over the initial amount of money they spent. It basically keeps teams from getting free money against the cap by losing money on a DP.
     
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  20. mbar

    mbar Member+

    Apr 30, 1999
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the LA and Atlanta situations are fascinating but also very different. I think LA knows that Gio has no value and knew that when they signed Zlatan. I don't think they would have done that without knowing they would bite the bullet on Gio (baring a miracle) or do the Alesandrini contract restructure. No sympathy for LA.

    Atlanta knows that Almiron has value so this has to be more frustrating. The league structure is hurting their leverage.

    All that said, I think you have to follow the rules as they are laid out. Can't just provide exceptions as you go.
     
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  21. PhillyMLS

    PhillyMLS Member+

    Oct 24, 2000
    SE PA
    Actually think it could be two issues in Atlanta. First. and most likely, is that I think they are finding early in the window there is less of an appetite to meet their valuation of Almiron. That may change in the next week as teams start to do their panic buying.

    Secondly, and I have nothing but a gut feeling on this, might be Almiron. I think there is a chance that he had a change of heart towards the end of the season. Sort of like how Martinez said "Atlanta is my Barcelona", I think Almiron may have come to a decision that unless it is a really big club then he may be happier in Atlanta. He seems to really enjoy it there, so that may be something that plays into this.

    Course, none of this would be an issue if Atlanta wasn't proactive and already signed a replacement.
     
  22. ukraine76

    ukraine76 Member

    Feb 8, 2001
    New York
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really don’t understand how someone who follows MLS and is not a hater can think that Denmark is better. We’ve now had multiple years when MLS teams got their hands on best players from Scandinavia. Going the other way are players who don’t really cut I in MLS (like Gall). As mentioned, our salaries are a multiple of theirs. What would be the logic behind Denmark being stronger than MLS?

    I do think we are behind Russia and Portugal, but not by very far. We are on par with Belgium and just behind Holland. I would say that given the trend we are about 1 year away from being on par with Holland. Our top end talent is comparable. Our bottom teams are better. Yes, we do not have the quality of Ajax and PSV and Benfica, but that’s only 3 teams per league
     
  23. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    MLS and Denmark are much better than Sweden and Norway. It's more of an open question between Denmark and MLS.
     
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes.
    No. Too harsh IMO.

    But even the "yes" is a break for those teams...if someone is injured or away for international duty, they benefit from the extra DP.

    Luckily those aren't the only two choices. :rolleyes:
     
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