2018-19 Development Academy

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by TheFalseNine, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Nobody is saying their contracts are great, they're horrible! And we can spend hours chastising G. Kleiban for his representation (and for a lot of other things), but the fact remains that those players and their families agreed to those contracts. Yeah, they felt indebted to the Kleibans "for all they've done for us," but where I come from money talks, bull.... walks. I wonder if the rest of the story will be revealed.
     
  2. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    The only way that this would be ok is if Kleiban made a deal with Nike to work with the clubs and pay for some of their salary. However, that is not the case. Both of those clubs have deals with much smaller companies.
     
  3. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I think there are two questions up in the air, which depending on how you answer them, colors your interpretation.

    1) How much better is it to develop in Germany? If it's much better, the difference between 10k and 50k (in MLS) isn't decisive.

    2) Maybe Mendez and Llanez aren't that special, at least from the point of view of scouts in Europe. Maybe their market price is low until they prove themselves in that environment.

    I don't really have answers to those questions so I'm withholding judgment. What puzzles me is what Brian Kleiban thought was going to happen after this. The Galaxy under Klein have been a mess, so did he think he was going to get away with this? I doubt 3four3 is so profitable that he doesn't have to think before walking away from a steady job.
     
  4. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Family dynamics can be very tricky. Gary is the older brother, and he may have some psychological sway over Brian. People don't always do things that are in their best interest, and family dynamics can play a part.
     
  5. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    I think ledezma's salary has a lot to do with a minimum salary rule/law. It really just complicates that.

    the issue isn't just the salary its the coach...his brother...their then current club and leaving the country and choosing the clubs they did and gary's twitter comments about well everything. its just a really strange situation.
     
  6. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, Ledezma absolutely benefits from the minimum non-EU salary in the Netherlands, but that doesn't discount the work of his agent: after all, there are plenty of players with agents who can't get Dutch clubs to bite on them given this high minimum.
     
    Tom Collingsworth repped this.
  7. It's easier to get into a German club's academy for a non EU kid than into a Dutch one. You really have to bring something special and then it still doesnot mean you'll succeed.
     
  8. Actually it's not a benefit, but a hurdle to get over. Only if you make it over the hurdle it becomes a benefit.
     
    xbhaskarx repped this.
  9. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    its a complete benefit

    if the player gets the contract they get paid well for a first contract

    if they don't get the contract its because they aren't worthy so they don't spend the next five years going form the u19 to the u23 team only to find out at age 23 they weren't good enough for that league.
     
  10. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand that, and in fact, that was my point.
     
  11. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
     
  12. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #837 xbhaskarx, Apr 16, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    1) Where are you getting $50k from?

    Gilbert Fuentes signed with the Quake at age 16 and made $82k in 2018. U-20 teammates: Jaylin Lindsey made $67k, Andrew Carleton $87.5k, Chris Durkin $89k, and Ayo Akinola a whopping $140k! Efrain Alvarez makes $72k with the Galaxy, as does Bradford Jamieson, so that's pretty much the MINIMUM figure to use.

    Also, if you really think the difference between $10k and $50k or $70k or $90k isn't "decisive", I have to wonder if you've ever lived outside your parents basement..... Really any salary for any job in the real world, making 7x or 9x that amount is a massive difference. That's much more the case at low levels like $10k, which is poverty wages in the developed world, even with free food and boarding.

    2) Are Mendez and Llanez less "special" than those MLS homegrowns? Less "special" than other YNT kids who have gone to Germany (most of whom had not "proven themselves" in Germany before signing)? Given that Mendez was the US Soccer young player of the year in 2018, I think it's safe to say, no.


    It's also worth considering how this may hurt the market for the next batch of USYNT kids looking to move abroad... will teams give them similar lowball offers?
     
  13. Thundering165

    Thundering165 Member

    North Carolina FC
    United States
    May 1, 2017
    Raleigh
    Hopefully this is only a temporary placement for the GA Cup. If Armour is considering signing with Atlanta, he should take into account that there is a mildly hyped LB around his age currently on their books. I would really like to see him make the transition from academy to first team at NCFC over the next year or two.
     
    ChuckMe92 and ussoccer97531 repped this.
  14. Arantes

    Arantes Member

    Fluminense
    Brazil
    Dec 4, 2018
    It's only temporary. Considering Armour was a forward up until recently, he has come a long way. However, athleticism will only take him so far. Benching Bello would be next to impossible with either ATL2 or with the U17 MNT. If I were him, I would continue watching LB tape consistently to define his own playing style. He is often out of position but is able to recover due to his superior athleticism.
     
  15. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    #840 luvdagame, Apr 16, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
    hmm....

    reading recent posts in this thread....

    never thought we'd become (name your third world country) in the way we treat kids and their parents desperately trying to make it to the big time.

    angry.

    sad.
     
  16. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I’m not sure what my opinion is. I think the Atlanta academy will be better for him, but the first team path is blocked and I’d like to see a boycott from US prospects on signing first team deals with Atlanta United, if they have other options. The USL first team path is mostly unproven, but it could work. I think the best option for Armour is Atlanta academy (won’t be blocked there by Bello) and then signing abroad at age 18.
     
  17. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    :rolleyes:

    FWIW, I didn't work when I finished my undergraduate degree and instead chose to go to grad school where I lived on a pretty minimum stipend. But the income foregone was worth it in the long run since my career prospects would be better. People make these kinds of tradeoffs all the time.

    The argument is that Germany would be better for their long-run prospects, and if so, a couple of years of missing out on 50k (or 70k or whatever) would certainly be worth it. I don't know if going to Germany does make that much of a difference, but it's certainly the argument that would be offered and I wouldn't rule it out out of hand.

    I'm no fan of Gary Kleiban, so I'm willing to believe he's a terrible agent or intermediary, but it's also hard to believe that this was the best he could do if there was a huge demand for those players.
     
  18. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    the counterfactual is unknowable, but imagine a world where cory gibbs represented those two. mendez of course was coming off a youth tournament where he absolutely dominated and was recognized by us soccer.
     
  19. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006

    most german clubs don't pay that much though it may take years to 'make up' that amount.
     
  20. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Again, I don't know how much benefit learning in Germany brings, but my guess is that both of these players have dreams of playing at top teams and make millions per year. Sports is one of those "lottery" jobs where most players don't make it in the pro's but those who succeed there can retire off of what they make.

    Say that the chance of being one of those players is 5% if you spend those first key years in MLS vs. 20% if you are in Germany. Chances are in both leagues that you won't make it, but for a better shot at it I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot. Again, I don't know what the actual probabilities are, just that there are some probabilities where the decision makes sense and other probabilities where it doesn't.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/675490/average-bundesliga-salary-by-team/

    Even in Germany, if you make it, you get paid pretty well.

    The other thing I wonder is if there is a handshake deal that if they play well they will get a new contract.

    I think there's more to the story, but I guess we'll see. If there isn't, the problem kind of solves itself since no player will want to be guided by the Kleibans after this.
     
    Winoman repped this.
  21. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    Cmon man Mendez is not a glorified tryout caliber prospect. Maybe he’s not mckennie but he’s at least Soto
     
  22. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    germany is way behind the premier league and that website you linked proves it. It literally says only 12 clubs in all over germany have a average player salary of above a million dollars. that doesn't mean that each player makes a million dollars...that means they average it. There are also much better websites to get salary info that one isn't very accurate.

    Did you know at freiburg the club with ur 'wonder if secret handshake deal' only pays one player more then a million dollars a year? one player....one single player lol.

    If you make it...but its more then likely you wont because it really is a difficult thing to do.

    I think you should stop wondering about secret handshake deals.....because they don't exist. If he plays well he'll get offered a new contract...if he plays too good he'll be sold because they won't be able to afford him....if he doesn't play well we will get the stories about how the german clubs don't like americans.

    I don't think you understand how difficult it is to get one of those really big contracts.

    5%??? try like .005% I mean you think 1 in 20 kids gets a million dollar a year salary that come through mls academies? not even close.

    20% in germany? you think 1 in 5 kids get a million dollars a year in germany? do you know in germany these big clubs have literally a hundred kids working in their academy trying to make it.

    This is what those brutal nba agents tell those poor kids who leave learly for the nba when there is actually little chance they will be drafted. They say hey teams are handing out 20 something guaranteed contracts and the same amount of nonguaranteed contracts all you need is one team to like you oh and don't worry if that doesn't happen either if you just get invited to a camp if teams like you you'll get a contract. so these kids think they have three different ways to 'make it'...the truth is no they aren't going to the league undrafted kids don't make it, a bunch of second round kids never get into the league and a number of first rounders are out after their first contract which isn't enough to retire on. if you make ur decisions on the money you'll end up broke with a sad story.
     
  23. Wage bill says alot, but not all.
    Bale's Real Madrid paycheck alone is bigger than the whole Ajax selection plus staff.
     
  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. Mendez was the "Player of the Tournament" at the CONCACAF U20 Championships. Now, that doesn't mean he's the second coming of Iniesta. But that tournament did feature a lot of good prospects, such as Diego Lainez of Real Betis.

    For Pete's sake, Brandon Servania of that same U20 Championships team makes $185k with FC Dallas. We can give a ton of examples. Bryan Reynolds, who's never played a game for FC Dallas, makes 4 times as much as Alex Mendez. It don't compute. And there's nothing that anybody has said in this thread that makes it compute.
     
    USSoccerNova repped this.
  25. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    the issue is baysider apparently feels that bale had a 20% chance of getting that contract...
     

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