2018-19 Bundesliga Matchday 6: Bayer Leverkusen vs Borussia Dortmund

Discussion in 'Borussia Dortmund' started by BVBFNM, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Rewatching the 3:2 still puts a smile on my face. The fast passing that made Leverkusen dizzy, Alcacer basically setting up his own goal and immediately starting the run towards the goal and Hakimi with the beautiful cross into the box. Simply a fantastic goal by all involved. It's so important to have a striker that can play football with the guys around him but who also keeps the opponent's defense honest. It's just another factor why I think that he will make the life of our wingers easier.
     
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  2. BVBFNM

    BVBFNM Member+

    Apr 3, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Well, we've taken the lead and are now Top of the table. Let's keep it that way until the end of the season, as unlikely as it may be.

    Seriously, Alcácer has to play the full 90 minutes of every match, otherwise we're toothless in attack, however if he has brilliant season with us it's back to Barcelona so a declining Suárez can make way for him, which is the harsh reality. Delaney should only be deployed against deadbeat opponents or to help better midfielders rest when we're securing a win, starting him vs better teams is suicidal.

    On to the next match. Anything less than all six points vs Monaco would be embarassing.
     
  3. MtnGardener

    MtnGardener Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 21, 2017
    I watched this one a second time and wrote a minute-by-minute for myself. Best player was Hakimi. He mades many dead end dribbles (the most of any player) and several bad passes, but he was so dangerous on offense and so good on defense that it was worth it.

    JBL was terrible. Anyone who says otherwise..,.. watch it again. Back passes. Terrible touches. Misreads on D. If you doubt, I can give you the details.

    Witsel was really good. I missed it on the first watching. But he held the ball well under pressure a dozen times. He linked well, he was good on defense, he didn't overcommit, he made many good build up passes.

    Philipp was meh. He had a really good 4 minutes from 22-25, and another three from 47-49. Otherwise he was mostly a liability. He saw some good openings but failed to execute on shots and passes.

    DAZ was really very good. His MBM is impressive.
    Delaney was bad in both the remarkable ways and in the unremarkable.
    Pulisic had a rough game. His first touch was off. Most of the times he was dangerous involved a lucky bounce going his way. He also didn't adjust when the ref was clearly not calling anything but large fouls. His biggest contribution was corners, they were good.
     
    hava repped this.
  4. Jiri Havran

    Jiri Havran Member

    Apr 8, 2016
    Oslo
    Club:
    Shanxi Baorong
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    What about Dahoud?
     
  5. MtnGardener

    MtnGardener Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 21, 2017
    Dahoud was neutral for me. On D he ran around a lot, but rarely found the right location. His offense had moments, but was mostly ineffective. My MBM reads:
    (note, anything that I considered run-of-the-mill isn't mentioned)

    57' Poor touch (on a difficult ball) by Dahoud. Leads to fast attack. High skill by Lever.
    58' Dahoud beautiful pass to Reus.
    60' Nice defense by Dahoud, intercept cross into box.
    61' Dahoud sloppy giveaway
    64' Good from Dahoud to JBL to Pulisic.
    64' Terrible turnover by Dahoud.
    67' Good combo Dahoud and Reus, ends up Dahoud nice switch to wing. JBL misreads.
    68' Dahoud nice to Witsel
    68' Witsel to Sancho, to Witsel to Dahoud. Dahoud gets fouled (hit directly from behind, no ball) not called
    68' Passive defense (Dahoud was extra, should have pushed), great attempt for Lever
    72' Good run Dahoud, good vision to Reus
    73' Dahoud, two hopeful passes, both intercepted.
    75' Good reaction Alcacer to Dahoud to JBL gets free kick.
    78' Dahoud nice leave for JBL, blasted over
    82' Dahoud runs into deadend.
    84' Dahoud pass to Reus, blocked
    86' Announcer says "Like for like, Delaney and Dahoud"... What?
    87' Hectic D. Maybe Witsel should close in the middle. But Sancho hounds on the wing. Corner conceded. Some luck. Bailey has a few chances, does badly. Terrible header by Dahoud.
     
  6. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Interesting I agree with the majority of this.

    I too gave Hakimi the MOTM, but in reflection Reus was the best player on the pitch, his work rate was exceptional often tracking back and winning the ball, which very few 10s do. He also gave the ball away less than Hakimi.

    For my you are too harsh on Larsen. He was poor and below the required standard, but for me he was the best out a bad bunch (Pulisic, Larsen and Philipp.) I haven't watched the game again, but from memory he made an excellent run and linked up well with Reus in the first half. In the second half, he made a good run, when Reus played an excellent defense splitting pass to put him through. Larsen should have done better with the shot, but it was still a positive. He also played Reus with a nice first time pass, from a Pulisic cross. Then of course there was his goal. I may be wrong, but I am sure he lost the ball less than the other two. As I said I don't think it was anywhere near the required level for a Dortmund player, but still better than the others.

    I also disagree with your assessment about Witsel. For me he just had a good solid game. I think his passing is just too slow and he can't step up the speed and pass through the lines when needed. It's not just this game, but quite a few like Anderlecht. In the first half he had a couple of chances to play Reus through, but he delayed too long and the opportunity was lost, which brings us on to Dahoud.
    For me Dahoud has a positive, because he changed the game. His movement and passing through the lines was able to create space and link up the midfield and the attack. Even when he didn't directly take part, he influenced the play by his movement alone. Then there is his speed of passing. Dahoud passes the ball quickly, which finds the attacking players in space. The same pass made to slow means the defender reactions to the pass.

    Leverkusen used up a lot of energy in the first half, but they weren't yet feeling it at the start of the second. It was Dahoud's energy, ability on the ball and quick passing which changed the game.

    However, your notes reveal the biggest weakness of Dahoud's game; he gives the ball away cheaply in our own half. I was watching highlights of the Chelsea vs Liverpool game and everyone talks about Sturridge's great goal, but it would probably have not happened had Barkley not made a careless passing losing the ball.

    Dahoud reminds me of Barkley and De Bruyne in this aspect. Technically sound players, who give/gave the ball away cheaply due to carelessness. Barkley keeps doing it, but De Bruyne worked hard and has stopped this part of his game. I hope Dahoud takes after De Bruyne rather than Barkley, but his ability to link play makes him vital for us and a risk we must take.
     
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  7. MtnGardener

    MtnGardener Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 21, 2017
    Reus was excellent. I think Hakimi got more points in my estimation because of how much of improvement he was in his position. So I take Reus for granted. I think there is no argument Reus was excellent in offense and defense, his work rate is high, his vision is great. But it wasn't his personal best game.

    As an aside, I wish I had a chance to see these games live, or at least with a full-field camera. I watch a lot of live soccer and there are players who I think are not easy to judge if you only can follow the camera. For example, defenders who do a good job organizing the defense, or midfielders who take wise defensive positions when a back pushes forward.

    As for JBL, I dunno. If you have a chance to watch again I'd be interested how you see it. My MBM for him:

    1' jbl loses in the air
    7' great dribble and interplay JBL to Witsel to JBL to Witsel to philipp
    10' JBL plays loose ball forward, gets away with it, then gets fouled (another shirt pull) ref plays advantage
    11' Pulisic corner, near post header by Philipp way off. JBL ends up offside (could easily have run back onside)
    21' Good pair of headers by Delaney, but just out of reach of JBL
    23' Nice pass DAZ, poor touch JBL has to send it back.
    24' Bad pass Akanji, bad read on bad pass by Diallo, decent recovery, JBL comes back to help
    25' Good pass DAZ. Bad touch JBL, back to diallo
    26' DAZ nice pass, JBL to Delaney, Delaney pass/deflection too far. cleared
    30' JBL good effort on high press, but clumsy, Diallo ends up getting bowled over and winning throwin (no foul, run over face first.. can't possibly be a fair challenge)
    31' JBL boots it from 1/2 back to Burki?
    32' Good defensive read by Hakimi, good pass to DAZ, bad pass by JBL forces DAZ into the defensive corner area
    34' Good hounding by JBL in offensive corner.
    34' DAZ touches ball away, just misses JBL
    38' Philipp tries dangerous bicycle (foul called) rather than lay off for wide open JBL running on
    41' Nice run Diallo, JBL runs the wrong way.
    46' JBL clumsy turnover
    49' JBL makes nothing from free header, heads to defender.
    49' Philipp tries well spotted back heel for JBL, poor execution.
    50' Good defense on corner by JBL.
    52' Akanji heads down to JBL. JBL fails to settle to his left, has to shoot awkwardly, it is weak.
    58' Reus to JBL, JBL bad touch, lost.
    62' Reus nice center for JBL. JBL hard shot, but right at keeper.
    64' Good from Dahoud to JBL to Pulisic. Pulisic goes down asking for foul, no foul called (looked clean to me)
    65' Great cross by hakimi, Hard shot reus, rebound JBL for goal (Alcacer would have had it if not)
    67' Good combo Dahoud and Reus, ends up Dahoud nice cross to wing. JBL misreads. Out of bounds.
    72' Nice pass DAZ to Reus, Reus to JBL
    75' Good reaction Alcacer to Dahoud to JBL gets free kick.
    78' Dahoud nice leave for JBL, blasted over
    79' Wasteful pass by JBL.
    82' Dahoud runs into deadend. Reus and JBL win it back.
    94' Poor read by JBL on defensive corner gives free header. Blocked.
     
  8. Scheherazade

    Scheherazade Member

    Jun 4, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    #58 Scheherazade, Oct 1, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2018
    Kicker gave Alcacer the highest rating for this game, a 1.0. It's fair, we looked out of sorts until he came on. They underscored Witsel with a 3.0 which is the median.

    Sancho has not been rated this season because he plays too few minutes, at the same time he is the most prolific chance creator in the top euro leagues.

    Informative stuff. JBL is a good backup striker candidate, he is weak in the build up but very goal hungry and opportunistic in his off the ball runs. If LF starts him over other players on the wing, it is because he contributes more defensively. I think LF has no time for Weigl Kagawa and Goetze because he gives priority to players who will contribute in defence.
     
  9. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Thanks for doing this it's very useful.

    First I want to stress, I by non means think Larsen had a good game. He had a poor game. Ratings are useless unless you know what scale a person uses.

    For me a 7: is a standard good performance, the player should be happy with his job, but there is lots of room for improvement. It is what is expected of every player.

    A 6 is below expectations, not worthy enough to be dropped immediately, but a few 6's in a row should mean you lose your place.

    A 5 is a poor performance. Unless you have lots of credit in the bank you can't complain if you are immediately dropped.

    Philipp, Pulisic and Larsen were all 5's for me, but Larsen was just the best out of them. None of those 3 could complain if they were dropped for the next match.

    Looking at your write up:

    lost possession 4 times.
    bad touch resulted in putting the team in a bad decision 4 times

    These are not good especially when you look at his positives. It's why I would give him a 5, but I am not asking for this, because it's a lot of work, I bet Pulisic and Philipp gave the ball away equally as much or even more often. I also bet they wasted good attacks by over dribbling more times.

    It's not that Larsen played well, he didn't. I just think others were worse.
     
  10. MtnGardener

    MtnGardener Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 21, 2017
    Yeah, I agree they were all 5s by your rating. The difference for me is in the danger created. I ranked them Pulisic 5+, JBL 5 , Philipp 5- using your system.

    I have attached my full MBM, you can look if you want. There were a couple foul/not-foul instants I would have loved to see a replay with a different angle, it affected the match quite a bit how lenient the ref was. Also, what was worthy of mentioning is very subjective. When a play petered out because the defense was in good shape I didn't bother rewinding to see if anyone made poor positioning choices early on that might be worth mentioning.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    When the difference is this small according to my scale, then it's hard for me to really disagree, because you have watched the match twice and I have only seen it once. Even without you pointing out all this, my rating might have changed.

    I still think actual results count for something and even if it was a tap in Larsen did get a goal.

    When judging a player I also judge the result. So if for me a player dribbles past a defender to create space, then continues dribbling and loses it, when he could have made a pass, it is a negative. I don't say good skill in dribbling, I say kept hold off the ball too long and let the team counter on us.

    Of course having a dribbler is important for the balance of the team. Even when Pulisic is playing badly, the possibility of him being to beat a man easily one on one does give the team more options.
    Thanks I will have a look.

    See I thought the ref did a really good job letting the game flow.
     
  12. MtnGardener

    MtnGardener Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 21, 2017
    I don't think a ref should ever let a shoulder pull or shirt pull go. Play advantage, of course, but those are clear fouls, they are never accidental, and the players have a right to expect to be protected from it. Also, it allows a low-skill way to wipe out skill, why would we want that in soccer?

    For leg bumps I feel more flexible. They are harder to see, often happen by accident, and in the moments were a ball is only mildly under control it can be hard to judge who would have gotten the ball first had a leg foul not happened just prior (which would change who the foul should be on). I am in favor of letting those go unless it is clear.
     
  13. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    For me it depends what you call shoulder pull. Putting your hand over someone's shoulder is fine. Shirt grabbing should always be a foul.

    Football is also a contact sport. It's not just about skill, it's about being physical and tough. The best players never walked away from a physical battle.
     

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