Somewhere in there. Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan... this is without naming all the real old legends like Wilt, Oscar, etc. They still will burn his shit. LeBron is just not a likeable basketball person.
Success does tend to divide people, but apart from that he seems like one of the MOST likeable stars in history to me... who's more likeable that's as big a star as him? He's a better athlete than Bird & Duncan, more versatile, more dynamic, and with a greater amount of basketball tools. He has a better career than Kobe & Shaq in terms of numbers; Kobe has more rings and lots of individual honors/records (some of which will fall to LeBron...), but he was far less efficient and certainly not as much an all-rounder as LeBron. Kobe was a better shooter (without being a great shooter) and had a very elaborate offensive skillset, and LeBron is basically better at everything else. I'm limited by not being old enough to see/appreciate the really old guys -- people will say Wilt and Bill are in there somewhere but I just don't know how to slot them -- so for me Magic, MJ, LeBron is my lifetime top 3. I can't imagine the path LeBron's career would take for him to mess that up at this point.
I got a theory: if you root for a Western team you probably have a higher opinion of LeBron than a fan of an Eastern team. It's like my opinion of Kobe: he's such a POS (and a Laker) that I know I'm biased against him when it comes to historical perspective. And, I don't care.
For me, he's not even the most likeable on his team. Kyrie by far is. He and Durant are fake tough guys. Just because you're more athletic, doesnt make you better in anyway. Bird is a better shooter, passer and as good a rebounder without the physical advantage Lebron has. Being athletic isnt a skill. Shooting is a skill. You shouldn't get extra points for being athletic. As far as MT Rushmore. LeBron isnt a better passwr than magic. He isnt a better shooter or scorer than Larry. As far as Kobe goes. The stats (other than rings) dont help him. But it says a lot that NBA players pick Kobe over LeBron. Wether it be 1 on 1 or in hypothetical 4th quarter situations.
It could be this. Or it could be that Lebron is just a bitch. The decision (without informing his team) His crying on the court. His constant traveling and double dribbles Not 1, not 2, not 3.... Finals record Poor shooting and free throws.
...but his entire game is built on his physicality and athleticism? How can you separate the two? Kobe and Duncan and Larry and Shaq may be more skilled than LeBron, especially in certain categories... but LeBron is a better, more versatile, efficient basketball player than every one of them. And for all this denigration of LeBron's shooting, Kobe is what a career 45% from the field? And Bird over his career he's only shooting 3% better than LeBron from 3. Better FT% than Duncan. I know LeBron gets lots of layups, I'm just saying... he's hardly Dwight Howard. I used to hold the decision against him too, and his lame first year in Miami after they came out acting like clowns in pre-season and wearing ray bans and being "the bad guys"... but then they lost to Dallas and eventually he came out and said basically "yeah the decision was stupid (but it raised money for charity) and it's dumb to act like the bad guys so we're just gonna play basketball" and then he went to what, 6 more straight finals? So yeah. I don't really care about that stuff. Really has nothing to do with their careers, or the respective level they reached.
D Rose officially on the Cavs. Remember when he was on the Bulls and he wouldn't recruit LeBron, Melo, or Wade?
Skills are practiced and mastered. Athleticism? Most are born with it. Wether its the frame or the muscle genetics. """""Kobe and Duncan and Larry and Shaq may be more skilled than LeBron, especially in certain categories... but LeBron is a better, more versatile, efficient basketball player than every one of them. And for all this denigration of LeBron's shooting, Kobe is what a career 45% from the field? And Bird over his career he's only shooting 3% better than LeBron from 3. Better FT% than Duncan.""" What is LeBron better at Bird than? Being versatile is cool. But that has been a problem for Lebrons teammates. Bosh and Love found that out. When it comes to the last 2 minutes of a game. Out of all the players we named, who you giving the ball too? Besides Jordan.
Bosh won 2 titles on the back of LeBron's play! I don't know how much of a sob story you can make that into... his options are be a good player on a bad/mediocre team or 3rd most important on an incredible team. LeBron is better defensively than Bird, he's a better ball handler, he's a better finisher, better first step, better at drawing fouls, at least equal court vision, better at getting to finals... I mean, maybe I don't understand the question? I especially don't understand minimizing the athletic/physical component of judging these players. No one is saying LeBron is a better finesse player than Larry Bird... his power and speed (and vision) are what his game is built on from the ground up. Do you put George Mikan above Shaq because he wasn't also 300 pounds? What is in Bird's favor in this comparison? He was a better jump shooter and got more rebounds in a much more physical (but far less athletic) league, a league in which it was the forwards' and centers' "job" to get rebounds. Where else does he beat LeBron James? He largely had better teams relative to the rest of the league, he wins that category too. Definitely had better coaching.
Personally if I have the 2017 Warriors as my team going by 2017 NBA rules and I need a bucket to win the game, I would strongly consider putting the ball in the hands of Magic who I feel will make the right decision. If I have the 1987 Warriors as my team going by 1987 NBA rules and I need a bucket to win the game, I'm putting the ball in MJ's hands. If not him, LeBron's. And I probably have Kobe and Shaq and maybe a few others before I have Larry, personally.
I had a post and my PC started acting up. People grade LeBron on his versatility, but maybe he's a jack of all trades a master of none? He's and elite athlete. So are the other million men in the league. How fast you run and how much you run through people don't impress me. Skills impress me more. Lebron still has no post moves, no perimeter moves. No reliable jumpshot. How in the hell can i make him a the goat or 2goat?
Unfortunately, most probably a trade will carry Kyrie to Western Conference and destroy the East even more and more. I think Rose can somewhat revive his career in Cleveland for simple reason he has a team that suits exactly his style of game. Surrounded with 3 point shooters. Rose doesnt suit playing next to Lebron, because I think both got similarities in style.But a team built around Lebron, fits around Rose.
I Think Lebron next move will be to Phoenix. NBA is all about relationships, and the fact that Phoenix hired James Jones as VP and Lebron rates Devin Booker in high. I really dont get why everytime we speak about great NBA players he gets linked to LA. Supposedly Westbrook, Love , George , Durant all should be in LA now.
If you don't think Lebron is a solid #2 all time and in the discussion for 1A, I think you may have bias. I'm not a fan of his, but not sure how you can argue otherwise.
He's not close to Kareem or mj Utter garbage in here. The modern nba is so diff and imo weaker physically that it's easier for a physical specimen like lebron to dominate He still has a wack finals record too
Well you don't have to... I'm just saying the dude came into the league and does it all very well and his numbers show that. Even if you're not an advanced metrics guy and ignore his PER and winshares (which are better than everyone we've named here that isn't Michael Jordan), the guy is on a career stat line of 27, 7, 7, and he did it efficiently at 50% from the field, and that all started at 18! He's guarded positions 1-5. He's won rings, won scoring titles, won MVPs. He definitely does not have Kobe's tools in the post, and as someone that misses watching players like Kobe or Jordan operate on a defender and go through their moves each night, I agree his game is missing that very fun-to-watch component... but his numbers eclipse Kobe on just about every level! Is he as efficient as Curry, no. Is he as offensively versatile as Kobe, no. Is he the leader Duncan is, no. But his numbers are better than all of them. He's not the jack of all trades to their masters of one... he's the guy with the complete game that does things they can't do to outperform them by the numbers. That's all I'm saying... I don't even really love LeBron or anything, I begrudgingly respect him and that took a long time because of my Kobe bias. Just saying, looking at what he's accomplished is amazing. How would his physical dominance be degraded by 1 on 1 matchups against defenses that can't play zone? He is a mismatch for basically anyone in the world, bigger and stronger than guards and quicker than bigger 2s/athletic 3s. He'd do just fine in a more physical league. Bring up his finals record but how many players take their teams to 7 straight finals? Look at his numbers in the finals! He should arguably have 5 finals MVPs based on his performance. Westbrook, Love, and George are so-cal guys... that's why they were linked. Durant was always going elsewhere, it was really between OKC, Boston, GSW. LeBron probably is going to LA because he has a huge house there, his company is there, it's the entertainment capital of the country/world... easy math on this one.
Imo the nba is weak and there are only a handfuk of teams who are any good Only one of them is in the east
How much of that is nostalgia though? The NBA has always been dominated by a handful of stars. It's worse than it's ever been but the finals see A LOT of recurring names year in and year out. You can basically tell the story of the whole NBA for the past 20+ years by telling the stories of Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Jordan, Hakeem, and LeBron.
Not close to Kareem? The same Kareem who made 2 finals (I think without Magic)? The same Kareem who with the best record in the league got swept by Bill Walton? Didn't make a finals with the Lakers until Magic and the Bucks until Oscar? I'd like to hear the argument for Kareem over LBJ - I saw Kareem in his 13th season and he wasn't carrying a team past the GSWs with the sky hook.
LeBron James hate is real. Its as if this dude personally spit in your face or something. LBJ is going down as a big time legend.
He's going down as either 2nd best all time or 1B. Jordan relied heavily on athleticism too. I'd like to know what star you could put on that Cleveland team in his 13th season with tons of miles on legs and beat one of the best teams in the GSW, with an away game 7.