2017 NASL Attendance thread

Discussion in 'NASL' started by msilverstein47, Jan 9, 2017.

  1. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    One....just because three years is the plan or average doesn't mean it will be for this.

    Two....many of us questioned their approach almost a month or two after they were announced.

    Three....location matters. I said Cosmos could do three years tops at Hofstra, move or fold.
    Very similar here from what I gather. I doubt they have three years of Middle East money to burn.

    Four....Diverse smersh. It is not the answer to everything, no matter what the constant media babble says.

    Five.....RB supporter groups meet with players and the coaches very often. They are very good about this....especially with the supporters group. Can't say about NYFC.
     
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  2. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    It all depends on how much money the Deltas ownership group (and, really, the big money Brazilian) are willing to lose.

    I think the bottom line with the Deltas is that they were utterly clueless about the market they were entering.
    @athletics68 is right: all us locals and natives predicted their struggles. It's not that we had the answers. It's not like we were saying it might work "if they do it right." We were saying there might not be any "right" way to do this.

    Whether they are willing to go one year or three years, I really doubt it matters. I don't see how "marketing" can change the bottom line situation: a D-II soccer market very likely does not exist in San Francisco. You can't "market" to a consumer that's just not there.
     
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  3. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    What does Kenn always point out? Teams spend a ton on marketing, then when the ROI isn't there the marketing goes. Basically more marketing, and spending a lot more will turn this around is his thought process? Yikes. This was the honeymoon...if you can't get off on your honeymoon it doesn't bode well for your late 30's.

    Now, Miami is a good counterpoint....but let's face it, between all the promotions and transfers they have spent on they are losing money. Let's see how long they last, and if the crowds can keep growing. That would be impressive if they stayed the course and made it work.
     
  4. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    This is kind of why earlier in the year I wondered how much attendance has tended to decline from inaugural home openers for expansion NASL teams.

    [​IMG]

    Right now their average is approaching 2400 and dropping.

    You'd think if there was one game when they could really pack the stands, it would have been that home opener. But more and more I think that disappointing home opener was a bad omen.
     
  5. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    When any opening goes that poorly the odds are stacked aginst you. Almost impossible to climb out of.

    Sure, it can be done, but you better have the resources and will.

    MLS essentially had two guys who did....Kraft was looking for dates for his stadium and customers for Patriot Place...but those two did it for the entire league, and they had the will and balls. Very rare.

    Especially for the sinkhole known as soccer in the US.
     
  6. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    SFFC (or what ever they are called) does ok in PDL, but their cost are way lower and they cornered that small hipster market.

    So there is a small market for lower D soccer, but it has already been cornered.
     
  7. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I've covered this directly before. I don't think you've got it quite right.

    See here: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/nasl-in-oakland-ca.2042617/page-2#post-35332871

    And quoted here:

     
  8. the shelts

    the shelts Member+

    Jun 30, 2005
    Providence RI
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I remember trying to make this point to the San Francisco Spiders ownership group in the old IHL about 20 years ago. They were full of buzzwords and expressions........"don't tell me it can't be done, show me ways we can do it" or "we need to think outside the box on this one" etc. All this accomplished was a sense of blaming the PR, the league and the sales team for not making work. I kept telling them that it just might never work.
     
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  9. JDogindy

    JDogindy Member

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And they all of one year.

    The San Francisco Bulls barely survived their first year & folded midway through the season & out of the record books.

    Aside from the Cow Palace being a decrepit shithole, San Francisco doesn't seem like a town that cares much about sports beyond the Giants & 49ers. People assume that the higher median income translates to more discretionary income (I.e. the money left over from paying utilities, groceries, clothes, etc.), but the higher cost of living means less chances for the general public to spend on frivolities like minor league sports.

    Again; San Francisco is second & can still win the Spring Championship, but if nobody is coming to Kezar, does it matter?
     
  10. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope. Cosmos won the league and then promptly went belly up, winning doesn't breed success if you have no core fan base to build off of. And right now the Deltas have like 10 fans in their core base and a supporters group they set up themselves (ie: it's not really a supporters group).
     
  11. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    NYers are in the same boat, yet they spend tons of cash on frivolities.....just not "minor league " frivolities. From what I understand SF is the same way.
     
  12. athletics68

    athletics68 Member+

    Dec 12, 2006
    San Diego & San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know about that. The Cosmos landlords, the Brooklyn Cyclones, are consistently atop the NY Penn League attendance table with about 6000 average. Hell they draw better than half the teams in the AAA leagues despite being a Short Season A team.
     
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  13. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Yeah, but it is Coney. Spend the day, cheap tix.....lots of old folks and grand parents bringing the kids. It's almost like riding the Cyclone, eating a dog at Nathan's, having a beer and oysters on the boardwalk, and going to a game at the beach in the summer is all just part of one big cultural routine and ride. Maybe NYC can get their one day....but the hipster cool, hardcore soccer fan really isn't interwoven into that scene IMO.
     
  14. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And there's the rub.....this is something that MLS has always and continues to Struggle with: how to deal/work with the Hardcore Fan Set. The league LOVES the atmosphere that the hardcores bring to the stadiums, yet there's also that other side of unwanted stuff they bring (see the immature SG members out there and their shenanigans).

    Remember the DCFC supporters's group saying that they don't want to go to MLS because they can't just light smoke bombs off in every section of the stadium? See here's the thing: Insurance companies view smoke bombs/flares as serious liabilities and local authorities take public safety VERY seriously.

    The Coney Island Scene and Vibe that the Brooklyn Cyclones cater to......that set doesn't always look at the SG produced atmosphere as a good thing. Plus there's also the question of whether or not the Hardcore Fan Set spends the kind of money at games as the family set does. I mean....it's a major reason that Suite, Club, and Family seats greatly outnumber the GA Standing Supporters sections.
     
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  15. BHTC Mike

    BHTC Mike Member+

    Apr 12, 2006
    Burlington, ON
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    It's the same thing with a lot of the #CanPL discussion out there now: if you listened to the internet, you'd think that they have to cater to the hardcore almost exclusively to have a chance at success. There's little discussion of the regular fans, even soccer fans, who will drive most of the revenue.

    I think the people in charge are smarter than that--mostly based on Paul Beirne now being involved, he was good at TFC at making the supporters groups feel important, but not losing sight of their overall importance. But they better be. That league has enough challenges already.
     
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  16. Darkwing McQuack

    Darkwing McQuack BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 11, 2011
    Morrisville, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #216 Darkwing McQuack, Jun 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
    6,215 in Miami
    3,494 in North Carolina
    3,890 in Edmonton
     
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  17. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    This is always missed, and every few years, when a new set of hardcores and youngsters find this place and go on endlessly someone has to point out.....you are .01% of the soccer market. Like most on the net, you find a place to surround yourself with like minded hardcore/minority groups, then u post, post, post, justify, rant, and start to believe you are more important and bigger than u are......and forget about the rest of the world.

    All perspective is lost.....yet these folks are sure they are being incredibly open minded.
     
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  18. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have yet to see this proven, and I have asked.

    Before the season, someone said the PDL team has a following and I asked how they knew that and they apparently saw someone with a scarf or something. I have not seen any of their crowd figures (PDL numbers being harder to come by now than ever).

    I just want to know what people are basing their perspective that SFFC is somehow any different than anybody else.
     
  19. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    7,144 at the moment, 5,614 last year, 6,234 the year before that.

    They would rank 11th among Triple-A teams, behind Charlotte, Columbus, Indianapolis, Lehigh Valley, Durham, Nashville, Round Rock, El Paso, Sacramento and Albuquerque, yes.

    But baseball and Brooklyn have a longstanding relationship, as does baseball in general and Americans.

    The Cosmos are an underachieving D2 soccer team at the gate (despite having The Greatest Brand In American Soccer HistoryTM) because they don't know what they're doing and they've overestimated the actual resonance of the brand among the people they're trying to reach.
     
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  20. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup just like Tin Foil Teddy and his jolly minority group of zealots................In their minds they are the opening act for U2 but in reality they are an out of tune garage band who can't even get their own family members to listen to!
     
  21. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. Darkwing McQuack

    Darkwing McQuack BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 11, 2011
    Morrisville, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The gap is closing quick.
     
  23. The One X

    The One X Member+

    Sep 9, 2014
    Indiana
    Club:
    Indy Eleven
    That was bound to happen when the NASAL lost 4 of it's strongest attendance teams to MLS and USL in two years.
     
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  24. BHTC Mike

    BHTC Mike Member+

    Apr 12, 2006
    Burlington, ON
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The gap is in the other direction, it's a chasm, and is getting wider.

    League average attendance is often deceptive, and largely irrelevant to the stability of individual teams and the league as a whole.

    Which of these two leagues would you rather be:

    Small League, average attendance 8,000:
    • Team 1: 20,000
    • Team 2: 5,000
    • Team 3: 5,000
    • Team 4: 5,000
    • Team 5: 5,000
    Big League, average attendance 7,500:
    • Team 1: 20,000
    • Team 2: 5,000
    • Team 3: 5,000
    • Team 4: 5,000
    • Team 5: 5,000
    • Team 6: 5,000
    • Team 7: 5,000
    • Team 8: 5,000
    • Team 9: 5,000
    • Team 10: 5,000
    The USL has 12 teams--one and a half entire NASLs--above the NASL's median team.
     
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  25. Darkwing McQuack

    Darkwing McQuack BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 11, 2011
    Morrisville, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2,701 in Jacksonville
     

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