2017 MLS Week 3 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by bhooks, Mar 14, 2017.

  1. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    03/18/2017

    New York City v Montreal Impact
    Yankee Stadium (2:00pm ET)
    REF: MARK GEIGER
    AR1: Kathryn Nesbitt
    AR2: Kevin Klinger
    4TH: Robert Sibiga

    Atlanta United v Chicago Fire
    Bobby Dodd Stadium (4:00pm ET)
    REF: JOSE CARLOS RIVERO
    AR1: Corey Rockwell
    AR2: Eric Boria
    4TH: Marcos DeOliveira

    Vancouver Whitecaps v Toronto FC
    BC Place (4:00pm ET)
    REF: ISMAIL ELFATH
    AR1: Apolinar Mariscal
    AR2: Mike Rottersman
    4TH: Daniel Radford

    D.C. United v Columbus Crew
    RFK Stadium (7:00pm ET)
    REF: TED UNKEL
    AR1: Adam Wienckowski
    AR2: Andrew Bigelow
    4TH: Jorge Gonzalez

    Orlando City v Philadelphia Union
    Orlando City Stadium (7:30pm ET)
    REF: FOTIS BAZAKOS
    AR1: CJ Morgante
    AR2: Danny Thornberry
    4TH: Silviu Petrescu

    FC Dallas v New England Revolution
    Toyota Stadium (8:00pm ET)
    REF: ALAN KELLY
    AR1: Kyle Atkins
    AR2: Anthony Vasoli
    4TH: Younes Marrakchi

    Sporting Kansas City v San Jose Earthquakes
    Children's Mercy Park (8:30pm ET)
    REF: JAIR MARRUFO
    AR1: Eduardo Mariscal
    AR2: Jeffrey Greeson
    4TH: Chris Penso

    Colorado Rapids v Minnesota United
    Dick's Sporting Goods Park (9:00pm ET)
    REF: NIMA SAGHAFI
    AR1: Eric Weisbrod
    AR2: Jason White
    4TH: Kevin Stott

    Real Salt Lake v LA Galaxy
    Rio Tinto Stadium (9:30pm ET)
    REF: SORIN STOICA
    AR1: Cameron Blanchard
    AR2: Jeff Muschik
    4TH: Baboucarr Jallow

    Portland Timbers v Houston Dynamo
    Providence Park (10:30pm ET)
    REF: ALLEN CHAPMAN
    AR1: Peter Manikowski
    AR2: Jeffrey Hosking
    4TH: Alejandro Mariscal

    03/19/2017

    Seattle Sounders v New York Red Bulls
    CenturyLink Field (7:00pm ET)
    REF: BALDOMERO TOLEDO
    AR1: Frank Anderson
    AR2: Gianni Facchini
    4TH: Dave Gantar

    http://www.proreferees.com/2017-mls-regular-season-assignments---week-3.php
     
  2. Dayton Ref

    Dayton Ref Member+

    May 3, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Looks like Nima Saghafi gets the first trial center of the year
     
  3. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know the PRO website doesn't reflect this, but I was under the impression that Saghafi would be promoted to part-time this year. I could be wrong, but either way the assignment here isn't shocking. If he still is technically a 4th official, I can almost guarantee he'll see the most middles this year of that group.
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So he's not PT yet. Nevertheless, I predict he will be before the season is over. He's clearly next.
     
  5. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    @coreyrock Corey I very much enjoyed your spirited and energetic performance at the Atlanta United match today. I noticed you were "walking the dog." I also noticed your "no that ball did not go into touch, it was on the line" signal. I had never seen that before.

    Thanks for a job well done.
     
    coreyrock repped this.
  7. Raider025

    Raider025 Member

    May 13, 2015
    So... that red in Atlanta for DOGSO was on point for me. Not sure what the announcers are on about, I see this is pretty cut and dry.

    As for the double yellow to Shea, the first was for the cynical challenge, which I agree with, and the second came moments later after Shea said something to Elfath that made him look at Shea like he was crazy, before proceeding to pull the red out. Any ideas what might have prompted the second one? (wordwise I mean. I think it shows up in the highlight for it when it shows it the second time).
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be clear, the first one--not the second.

    The second seemed like a red DOGSO. Again, no card.
     
  9. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When possession is never gained, it's a pretty high standard for DOGSO in FIFA's eyes. This was close. Am interested to see if PRO weighs in on this.

    I believe it was yellow followed by straight red. He didn't get him for dissent--it was AL.
     
  10. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    #11 GlennAA11, Mar 18, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
    wow. Busy night for the referees tonight.

    Unkel was too busy showboating/being dramatic with his PK calls to do any cautioning or sending off. It was a very strange game. I guess the players are going to be taught the hard way that you are not allowed to touch the ball when a call goes against your team...even if you are just kicking the ball to the place where the freekick will take place.
     
    RedStar91 repped this.
  11. jdmahoney

    jdmahoney Member

    Feb 28, 2017
    Plymouth, MN
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Wow. Can't believe Davis got a red card for what might justify a foul call in the Minnesota-Colorado game. Davis has control of the ball and just barely glances Hairston with his cleat. He didn't make contact with the studs, so I see no reason for a red, much less a yellow. This decision by Saghafi is downright baffling, especially considering he isn't technically on the PRO centers list yet.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What does that have to do with anything?
     
    Bradley Smith repped this.
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And now that I've seen it...exactly how hard is too hard when you completely miss the ball and hit your opponent's knee with your studs?

    Admittedly, it's a weird foul. And possibly accidental. But it also is the type of foul that ends a career. It's not cut and dry either way, but it's certainly not baffling. I'd personally go red. Moreover, the attack on Saghafi seems particularly unwarranted as I would bet the information on misconduct came from the fourth, based on the delayed whistle.
     
  14. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All of the above, and I'm 100% red card, personally. That's a great way to shatter someone's patella.
     
    MassachusettsRef and JasonMa repped this.
  15. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    How about when you completely miss the ball and hit your opponent's ankle with your studs?
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  16. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
  17. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a Rapids fan I thought it was orange but I wouldn't have been shocked by a yellow. I don't know how you consider that "might justify a foul". It's clearly card-worthy.
     
  18. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't look now, but the announcer made perfect sense on that red card. "could be yellow, could be red, and we get to look at it several times."

    Thats gutsy 4th involvement (from Kevin Stott?). If that was Kevin, that's two weeks in a row with great and unusual calls from him. I'm not sure another 4th would have said "red card" and I'm not sure a more senior ref would have followed that input anyway. All around well done by the crew to communicate and trust each other.
     
  19. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FIFA's instructions involve considering the point of contact on tackles like this, where the higher up the leg it goes, the more likely it is red. Every tackle on the foot or ankle can't be a red, or we'd be playing 8 v 8 in most pro matches. Admittedly, this is closer to SFP than many other similar tackles, and such a decision would be defensible, but I'm with Geiger here. Red isn't necessary on this tackle.
     
    threeputzzz repped this.
  20. jdmahoney

    jdmahoney Member

    Feb 28, 2017
    Plymouth, MN
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Ok. After seeing it again, it is a foul and probably a cautionable offense. But, you can also see that he hit him with the side of his cleat, not the studs. To me this is yellow, not red, because Davis is not trying to make contact, it was just reckless. Not serious foul play. If there was input from Stott to Saghafi and he saw something different (intent?) than we see from the camera angles, then excellent communication and decision from the crew.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  21. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    That's a good explanation thank you.
     
  22. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    From watching games across Europe, I think that is a clear instruction by FIFA. You almost never see a red on through ball over the top in the air. See the Suarez PK in the Barca vs. PSG game.

    Also, see every time an attacker is dragged down on a cross in the box.

    What's interesting for me in this clip is if FIFA/PRO don't view this as a red card because the attacker doesn't have possession, then can you have a red card for DOGSO on a through ball at all? Is it possible at all on a professional game? If FIFA/PRO don't view the likelihood of the attacker getting possession here, than it is not possible.

    For me, this is a red card. The only arguments against it, potentially, are the other defender there and maybe direction.

    But if this isn't a red card because the attacker didn't have possession or wasn't likely to gain possession then, to me, this would mean that defenders should just grab attackers on any through pass without the fear of red.
     
  23. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Has no one in PRO told him how ridiculous he looks? He almost fell down on the second penalty.

    I know MLS referees have had for years trouble with DOGSO and they have always had a tougher standard than European referees for what constitutes DOGSO but that was poor from Unkel.

    I knew there would be some learning curves with the new law, but I just don't understand how Birnbaum does not receive a yellow in that game.

    Did Unkel sleep through or miss the PRO preseason camp where they focused on the law changes? I would think DOGSO would have been covered extensively.

    He then bailed out Birnbaum again on the second PK, by not giving him a straight red. That needed to be a red because it was a push.

    We obviously haven't had many examples in MLS, but I fear MLS referees are just gonna be ignoring the yellow card portion and pushing and pulling portions of the new DOGSO law in the penalty area.
     
  24. aphelorah

    aphelorah Member

    Jun 9, 2010
    USA

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