2017 Confederations Cup - Qualifiers, News and Updates [R]

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Paul Calixte, Jan 9, 2015.

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  1. Nani_17

    Nani_17 Member+

    Nov 3, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I'm just going to let this go. The truth is I like Belgium and they were one of my top picks to win euro16 ahead of Portugal. If me and you pick and choose stats to support our arguments, we can sit here all day. Fact is I don't have a crystal ball and none of us know who will develop to their potential and who won't. I simply like the odds of Portugal continuing to be strong for at least the immediate future, though the CB situation does scare me.
     
  2. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    While no one can predict the future in soccer, I have a strong inkling that Belgium will do better than Portugal in tournaments for the next seven years.
     
  3. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Open question to everyone: how are we feeling about Russia's chances of surviving the group stage? I'd point to South Africa accomplishing at least that much in 2009, but their group was arguably easier.
     
    zahzah repped this.
  4. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Country:
    Portugal
    Ppl are forgetting one important thing... Portugal players are often under Jorge Mendes' stable the most powerful man in the sport

    [​IMG]

    He is one of the biggest reasons Portugal won Euro 2016 and its players go to good clubs...
    be careful.. he wields immense influence and I believe is close with Infantino

    its no coincidence that Euro 2016 was the first tournament where Refs didnt screw Portugal over.

    I was disappointed with the celebration as Jorge Mendes should have been allowed to lift the henri delaunay trophy as well and celebrate on the Saint Denis pitch that glorious 10th of July evening.
     
  5. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Country:
    Portugal
    Portugal needed to go through 7 games to win the Euro 2016, more than any other team in history.

    You should thank God and feel privilege you saw the greatest european footballer of all time lift the trophy with his nation, it was football history that you will recount to your grand kids.

    Belgium is good though, maybe they will win one day. I doubt it because they dont have the mentality like Portugal does. they wont fight to win.

    Portugal also is very advanced tactically these days, in fact even a average Portugal coach like Marco Silva can beat Liverpool and Man united with a shit hull team... a typical Primeira liga match is much more tactical and advanced than an EPL game...

    EPL is football for n00bs, its all just boot forward, no tactic. thats why England and Belgium dont win anything. I dont watch EPL because watching it actually makes me less intelligent, same way I dont watch MLS.

    I only watch Primeira Liga, La Liga. Ligue 1 is improving and Serie A is not what it once was but is very tactical. Thats why not only is my National team successful, I am successful in life as well.

    In fact, since Portugal won Euro 2016 Ive been making a lot more money and have been enjoying much more sex with attractive women. its the trickle on effect of being a Campeao.
    You dont know what being a Campeao is like.
     
  6. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Good luck at the confed cup and the WCQs

    SMH, what a weak and desperate troll ... thanks for the kek, mate.
     
  7. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    They should be able to make it as hosts, I don't think either Mexico or Portugal are such strong sides to be assured qualification to the next round.
     
  8. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    I don't know, though - IMO both are head and shoulders above Russia at the moment. There is a fair question about what version of Mexico will show up under Juan Carlos Osorio; his only tournament with them to date was the Copa América Centenario, and they got demonstrably worse from one game to the next.
     
  9. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Judging by what I saw at the Euros, Russia looks pretty poor. Even in the draw against England they were completely outplayed, IIRC. Home advantage might give them a boost though. That's the only reason I'd give them a chance to finish top 2.
     
  10. glennaldo_sf

    glennaldo_sf Member+

    Nov 25, 2004
    Doha, Qatar
    Club:
    FL Fart Vang Hedmark
    Country:
    United States
    Didn't look that much better against Qatar tbh..

     
  11. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    No, you don't. You know this game pretty well, and you're just being flippant or intentionally obtuse.

    Belgium can't make any impact in tournaments with the recent "Golden Generation" crop of players they have, and don't seem to have any players coming through the ranks that are close to that generation but suddenly they're going to be better than Portugal in the next 7 years? A country that has had a finalist in each Euro age-level (U17, U19, U21, Senior team) in the last 2-3 years?

    Lest you forget that Portugal has, aside from Spain, the best record in the European Championship this century. In the last 30 or so years, Portugal has outperformed Belgium to the point where the latter should be honored to even be in such a comparison. They've just had a Golden Generation and Portugal has very arguably their best generation ever coming up (yes, even better than Figo and Rui Costa's) . You clearly want to write off Portugal so bad that you've made up some scenario in your head where Belgium will outperform Portugal, when there is quite literally no indication, be it historical or basing projections off current players' values, that this will happen.

    Color me extremely skeptical at your "strong inkling", which frankly sounds more like "I just don't like Portugal".
     
  12. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Country:
    Australia
    I had another look at the Confederations Cup draw and I can't see Belgium in there anywhere. Why is the relative strengths of Belgium and Portugal being discussed in this thread?
     
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  13. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Country:
    Portugal
    But you do see Portugal, lets make that CLEAR :)
     
  14. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Country:
    Portugal
    Pipiolo on July 10, 2016
    [​IMG]
     
  15. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Starting off with the Kiwis as Mexico and Portugal battle it out on the first match day/days also helps their chances.
    Especially if that other match is a draw. They can go into the Portugal match confident knowing Portugal are desperate to win and they can just draw to keep in first place.
     
  16. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    There is a difference between potential and realization. For Belgium, De Bruyne, Hazard, Courtois and Lukaku have arrived, they have at least four players of world class status for the near future. With Portugal, it's still about potential - besides Cristiano, Pepe and Nani, whom are all already 30 or above, they have no other players that are established as stars. So while no one can make certain predictions, it's well within reason to expect Belgium to perform higher than Portugal in the near future - I mentioned seven years as this span covers the next two WCs and next two Euros.

    Also, when you say Belgium cannot make any impact at tournaments, you should bear in mind that their quarterfinal appearance at WC14 is a better showing than all but two in Portugal's history.

    Overall, @Blondo has made a strong argument to look forward to Belgium's upcoming performances in international tournaments. I do not feel the same about the arguments made for Portugal, at least not yet.
     
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  17. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    I agree in principle but 7 years is stretching it. Hazard and De Bruyne will both be 33 in 2024. Lets say 5 years (next two world cups).
     
  18. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    #318 benficafan3, Feb 17, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017

    Nice World Cup reference. Portugal also just outperformed that same Belgian team with De Bruyne, Hazard, Courtois, and Lukaku at the Euro, so what is your point? Any particular reason you didn't reference the Euros? Is it because then you'd have to reference the fact that Portugal has as many appearances in Euro semi-finals as Belgium has appearances in the tournament proper? Yikes, yeah, that one wouldn't have done your argument much, could see why you left it out.

    My point at least takes into the fact that this Portugal team that outperformed Belgium did it with a subset of starting players that are 24 and under that have already proved they can win an international title, and did it more recently. And these players couldn't do anything about it in 2014 because they of their age, making your WC 2014 reference even less relevant.

    Joao Mario was bought for 40ME by Inter last summer. He was fulcrum to Portugal winning the Euro.
    Safe to say he'll be world class.
    "Joao Mario a bargain"
    http://www.football-italia.net/98115/joao-marios-bargain. You should read that, would probably introduce you to some information you haven't come across.

    Renato Sanches. The winner of the Golden Boy. Not sure what else can really signal you'll likely be world-class than that. Take a look at the list of players who have won it. He was crucial to both Benfica's success last season and Portugal winning. Youngest player to play in a final, youngest winner, and the only teenager to win it, ever. The previous youngest player to win was a 20-year old Italian player in Italy's 1964 squad. You'd have to go through some serious mental gymnastics to try and state he is not easily projected to be world-class.
    "Renato Sanches like Platini, says Ancelotti" - 31 January 2017
    http://www.fourfourtwo.com/my/news/renato-sanches-platini-says-ancelotti

    I can personally tell you Nelson Semedo, current 23 year old right back at Benfica is the best RB at Benfica I've ever seen. He would have started in France had he not suffered a major injury in the latter part of last season. Will be Top 5 RB in the world within 2-3 years.

    Bernardo Silva.
    "Bernardo Silva is the best player in France at the moment" - February 6th, 2007
    http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...ilva-manchester-city-champions-league-ligue-1

    Raphael Guerreiro. Voted into 2016 Euro Team of the Tournament at 22. Starts for Dortmund. The Portuguese NT coach referred to him as being shocked when he realized how good he was in his Portugal NT practice.


    Re-read all the above. Portugal has many players near-world class levels, if not will be well within that class, bar any very significant variations, very soon. All of the above achievements denote world-class talent. And that is not even an extensive list and they haven't even entered their prime.

    Please tell me where I'm not seeing your argument because, given the above, I would believe you'd have to be pretty obtuse to try and argue that Belgium is projected to be better than Portugal, given all of the above, and the fact that Portugal has shown consistent success in tournaments in the 21st century, success that would rival any country not named Germany or Spain. Yet you not only expect that trend to stop, you expect it to stop when Portugal currently has a young crop of players already achieving the highest of levels and arguably the best generation in their history.

    Color me very doubtful of your argument and your ability to properly argue it with data.
     
  19. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    We'll see, like I said one thing is hype and another actually becoming a world class player. Comparing Renato Sanches to Platini just shows to me it's over the top marketing rather than a measured view of the player. Hazard and De Bruyne are already there, let's see whether any of the players you mention actually achieves it. Until it happens, I will maintain the default view that Renato Sanches does not become a new Platini.
     
  20. coelho

    coelho Member

    May 12, 2016
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    Belgium does have some amazing talent and players, several being world class players.

    But Portugal has at the moment the most depth In the national teams history and the best crop of young players in there history I believe.

    I'd put Joao Mario at a world class level for a midfielder, he'd start at any club in the world. Raphael I think will be world class by 2018 world cup, he really makes the midfield click at Dortmund, incredibly skilled difference maker kind of player.

    I think William Carvalho is a top 5 defensive midfielder in the world, for a big man he sure lays on a beautiful pass.

    Gomes is starting every game now at Barcelona in there midfield.

    Bernardo Silva is world class bar none, regarded by many as the best player in France, the only reason you can argue he isnt world class is because he's not on a world class team hence not as much exposure. He will star at the confederation cup.

    Andre Silva 20 year old striker at porto was just named the highest transfer value of any young striker in the world, he's a star and on his way to becoming world class.

    Renato sanches will get there in time.

    Nelson Semedo at right back along with Joao Cancelo of Valencia I would argue are easily two of the top 5 best young right backs on football. Semedo probably becomes the starter very soon, looks like he will be heading to man United in the summer.

    Point is I think we have world class players but when your not playing at madrid or manchester or Chelsea or whatever u don't have the exposure and hence ppl wait to call you world class until your on that team.

    Oh and I forgot Gelson Martin's the best young winger in the world I believe. Probably madrid bound in the summer it sounds like.

    Now Belgium has a great team no doubt, but because they haven't won anything and now that Portugal has and has that confidence and a great structured team with Fernando Santos at the helm, I'd put my money on Portugal doing better. But Belgium can best any team in the world. Right now they kind of remind me of the Spanish teams that never won, so much talent but can't seem to put it all together at tournaments.

    Head to head I don't fear Belgium because of this but they could easily beat Portugal any day of the weak and vice versa. Portugal I think is the most underrated team in the world right now.

    But again there's no telling who will do better, under the right system and coach Belgium could become the number 1 national team in the world, they have the talent.
     
  21. coelho

    coelho Member

    May 12, 2016
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    You mentioned Portugal bring old at the euros.
    Right now the best players in each position are:

    LB Raphael who is 23 and was the best left back at the euros, probably should have won best young player over sanches.

    CB: Pepe and Fonte old but we have Semedo who is I believe 22 who everyone in portugal wants starting, and Oliveira 24 who should be on the team, so we have youth there but definitely oldest position.

    RB Semedo 23 and Cancelo 22, both regarded as two of the top 5 young rb in the world. Semedo apparently going to Manchester United in the summer, Cancelo apparently has agreed to Barcelona move.

    In midfield defensive mid Carvalho is 24, Joao mario 23, Andre Gomes 23, sanches 19.

    On the wings Bernardo silva the best player in France is 22, Gelson Martin's is 20 or maybe 21 can't remember, Nani still not old but older at 30 but those other guys are better players than Nani now.

    Up front Ronaldos 32 but Andre Silva is 20.

    That's young.....
    Like a very young starting lineup outside of centre back and Ronaldo. Great mix of vets and young star players.

    Everyone complains about the way they played in the knockout round but it's the way they had to play to win with the squad they had. Bernardo Silva was injured and the only reason sanches made the squad, Silva was rated by football experts as going to be a breakout star at the euros. Without his creativity they couldn't play the same style as with him in the lineup. Also Andre Silva wasn't on the team but is now a starter beside Ronaldo which gives them the first real legit goal poaching striker they have had in a very long time. I've watched a lot of porto games this season, he just has a knack for being at the right place at the right time, instinct that just can't be taught. So with Bernardo up front on the wing or in midfield, and Andre Silva up front and a starter or super sub winger in Gelson Martins, all of a sudden portugal can now play that attacking style they couldn't at the Euros. You coach with what you have which is what Santos did. Not to mention Semedo is a he'll of a great offensive right back which is a big upgrade in attack over Cedric who was the starter at the euros. Also with Guerrero starting in Dortmund midfield he could potentially play there for Portugal as he's becoming world class in midfield, he makes Dortmund tick. So at the confederation cup and world up all of a sudden they now have the squad to dominate possesion and play like a Germany or Spain or a Belgium if you like. It's going to be a completely different style of play and squad at the Confed and WC than the euros.



     
  22. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    @coelho ... so how do you think Portugal will line up in the confed cup? ... glorified friendlies and Portugal are in a weak group ... it should be an offensive 4-3-3.

    The spine is ancient yet younger CBs haven't stepped up to an adequate level (especially Oliveira should never be called up) ... so still depend on the old guys? Tuchel left Raphael on the bench again (played very little this season and hardly played at all as a LB) ... but the other LB options are a bit crap. Nelsinho was born in 1993 and at that age he still has plenty to prove ... however Cancelo is now behind Montoya in the pecking order ... that's Montoya ffs and Valencia are poor as well ... Nelsinho it is then? W.Carvalho also is largely unproven (in the big leagues). Joao Mario is far from world class (unless you use a fangirl definition of world class). I assume you saw PSG run over Barca in the CL ... Gomes was a disaster (no surprise as he's been awful for a long time now) ... Barca should really think twice before buying a player from Valencia again ... probably better to play Bernardo in midfield. Up front Ronaldo (spending a lot of time off-side and being booed lately), A.Silva (very raw, especially for a striker) and Gelson (despite he also isn't in his prime)?

    Santos needs to properly bed in fresh blood and the confed cup allows you to experiment. Santos is past it though ... he was sacked before he went to Greece ... taking the Greece job also looks poor on your resumé ... but his resumé already wasn't that good. The standards at the EUROs were very low ... no innovative tactics ... Conte was the only manager I rate with Löw a distant second (Italy and Germany also were the most tactically impressive sides at the EUROs) ... with Conte gone, have a look at the managers of the top sides ... it's an underwhelming list.
     
  23. coelho

    coelho Member

    May 12, 2016
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    No need to change the centre backs? They may be older but they are both still very good CB's. I would expect Semedo to push for a spot but Pepe and Fonte at the Con fed cup and world cup partnership I would be happy with, neither has shown signs of slowing down as of yet. So I don't expect a big drop off coming, World cup will be there last tournaments I would expect.

    Raphael has played regularly when hes healthy, he just came back from injury which is why he was on the bench the other day. And the reason he hasn't played LB is because Tuchel said he is too good to lay left back, he is more valuable to play in the midfield. If you ask anyone who covers Dortmund he has been there best midfielder and people consider him the engine that makes the team tick which was evident at the start of the season when he was involved in so many goals and once he got injured all of a sudden they weren't playing as well. If you watched the euro's or have watched him at Dortmund he is special, TSN guys here in Canada were talking before the champions league game this week that he can become one of the best players in the world.

    All other Left backs are crap? I like Antunes and Coentrao if the guy can ever get healthy man he was a beast. Hes still young enough when he leaves madrid this summer and if he can get healthy and play regularly then I would love him at left back and Raphael in midfield. People don't realize before the injuries he was one of the best left backs in the world, man that guy never had a bad game for Portugal, he was the most important player behind Ronaldo from 2010 to 2014. Big if but hes still young enough to get healthy and play and get back to form. And what about Ricardo Peirera voted best left back in French League in 2016 whom I will talk about below since hes mainly a right back but played left back in 2016 for Nice.

    Right now yes I would have Nelsinho as right back as I think he is the best Portuguese right back. This is an insanely deep positon for Portugal. You have Cedric who is a good solid right back, he has been very good this season at Southampton, you have Cancelo who scored 3 goals in his first 3 games for Portugal. I wouldn't say hes lost his job to Montoya, Cancelo has played more minutes this season for Valencia than Montoya? He has also played a lot as a winger as he is very offensive and so he has started quite a few games on the wing. And do you not know who Ricardo Pereira is?He is 23 and was Voted GFFN Ligue 1 left back of the year in france in 2016. He plays both right back and left back and is highly regarded as one of the best fullbacks in France. He's mainly a right back but can play either.
    Here is a recent article on him about Liverpool set to rival inter milan in a 22 millon dollar move for him.
    http://www.90min.com/posts/4539551-...2m-rated-full-back-ricardo-pereira-from-porto

    Carvalho may be unproven in a big league but there is a reason big clubs have offered large sums for him which Sporting have turned down and done a good job of keeping hold of him although he should be gone in the summer. Was he not arguably the best defensive midfielder at the Euro's ? Did you watch him? How many big defensive midfielders can pass the ball like him? he was also named the best player in the under 21 euro's the previous summer over big names in Europe.

    Joao Mario is an excellent player, if you don't rate him as a world class talent in midfield it's because you haven't watched him play closely. I don't know anyone who has watched him closely who doesn't think hes a top midfielder.
    here is a brief clip from a recent article on him:
    What he has given to the Nerazzurri is a sense of calm and purpose. His fluid yet determined style seems to have few weaknesses. He is strong, quick, has a range of forward thinking passes as well as knowing when to be safe. Adept at set-pieces, he likes to run with the ball and has an incredible shot on him. His critics will tell you he can’t tackle, but that should be seen in context, as he is superb at ushering the man on the ball into a non-dangerous space without ever committing. The man who idolised both Zinedine Zidane and Manuel Rui Costa growing up looks on track to be at least in the same bracket as the latter.
    Joao Mario is simply a stock that will continue to rise to such an extent that it may never be worth selling.

    Gomes I can't defend because I simply haven't watched him at Barcelona this season. I think he has great potential as he has great size and good offensive instincts.

    I would have to disagree on your thought Santos. He did a marvelous job of providing confidence to the players.
    He had them believe they could win which is something I don't think had ever happened before, Portuguese players thinking they could actually win a tournament. He instilled that into them and he also put the perfect scheme together for the team he had to win the tournament. Come on man! Adrien alongside Carvalho in the midfield was impossible in the knockout round's for other teams midfielders to get any room. They man marked Modric and Rakitic to so well in that game and then Pogba in the finals. That was a partnership that didn't allow opponents midfields to dictate games. Putting Ronaldo with Nani in a strike partnership worked beautifully, they combined for 6 goals and made Nani look like the player he was supposed to become. That was something none of us anticipated, but you don't think that was a smart tactical move? Having the balls to bring in an 18 year old in Sanches which worked wonders off the bench wasn't a good move by Santos? He knew he didn't have the players to play the traditional 4 3 3 style Portugal has always played. That's what you do as a coach, you work with the talent you have. The players fully bought into Santo's system 100 percent in Unity which lets be honest, how often does that even happen in football with the egos of players. That system under previous coaches wouldn't have worked, the players wouldn't have bought into that, Santo's was able to do something other coaches couldn't do which was gain the full trust of the players and garner the respect to where they trusted in his every plan. He also experimented with something like over 50 different players called up after he took charge in 2014. Please read this article about Santos below about the Euro's and tell me if you agree.
    http://www.firstpost.com/sports/eur...rnando-santos-machine-like-drive-2885890.html

    Oh and PS there are article's out today suggesting Chelsea are looking at a $70 million move for Bernardo Silva.
     
  24. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    It's a nice poetic article ... yet I'd take it with a grain of salt ... usually prose reflects reality better while poetry distorts ... since it's much more relevant to you, have a look at spielverlagerung's analysis of the games involving Portugal ... spielverlagerung is quite accessible, decent quality and unbiased, e.g.:

    http://spielverlagerung.com/2016/07/01/portugal-advance-despite-woeful-structuring/

    You can find more articles on Portugal games at spielverlagerung.com ... you could also buy a subscription to specialized publications if you're really into tactics ... I'm sure there are great ones in English (or even Portuguese if you speak the language and you're more interested in the Portuguese school of thought).

    Also, wait for silly season to open ... no need for transfer gossip all year round.


    Update:
    Tielemans just scored No. 32 and No. 33 ... needed the win and once again he delivered ... Tielemans came on late in the game as he was being rested for the return against Zenit.



    One with his strong foot



    ... and that's his weak foot
     
  25. coelho

    coelho Member

    May 12, 2016
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    Spiver.......spiverliver.......spiversplang......sorry I have not clue who or what a spliverliverlang is. If you want unbiased articles read goal.com, espn, sportsnet, read the praise that Santos got that was universal. Anyone who criticized him for not doing a good job or not knowing tactics is a biased goof ball who knows nothing about football. People love to criticize Portugal mainly because of how much they hate Ronaldo, but we won the euros and that's all that matters. That doesn't happen with a bad coach, sorry it just doesn't.
     
    verde-rubro repped this.

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