2017 Confederations Cup - Qualifiers, News and Updates [R]

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Paul Calixte, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    I think for teams like Porto, Benfica, etc. they don't have the money to compete with the rich European teams, which is why they rely on scouting young South American, African and even Mexican players for their squads. It is inevitable that those that reach a high international pedigree will leave for the top four leagues eventually.

    As for your question, I only watched two matches of Euro16, including the final. Portugal were not necessarily boring but they were on their heels for most of the match, France lost the game mostly because they let frustration overtake them. I did hear their matches against Poland and Austria were complete borefests.

    So I would say I enjoy Chile far more, hopefully the Chileans big four of Sanchez, Vidal, Medel and Bravo are still at their best for WC18. If that is the case, they should get far in the tournament.
     
  2. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Don't forget they still must qualify. They should manage. They'll have to start beating the teams they're supposed to beat though and there isn't much margin for error anymore.
     
  3. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    That is true, it is not guaranteed that they will make it although they should.
     
  4. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    That's a bit of nonsense though. I made these comparisons before but I think it went unanswered: do you think the Spanish are saying the same about Sergi Roberto or Brazilians about Rafinha to support an argument that they have so many great players?
     
  5. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    What they're saying is irrelevant, do they need to say it as well for my statement to be true? Not to mention that you're not exactly comparing apples to apples as neither of those players cost Barcelona 40+ million Euros like Andre Gomes did, an obvious recognition of his talent.
     
  6. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    It was a rhetorical question, I'm just drawing comparisons b/w Gomes and players that have a similar status at FC Barcelona. If you can't understand why some posters aren't able to recognize Gomes talent, than ask yourself if you'd be convinced if someone was telling you how good Rafinha is.
     
  7. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    I can absolutely understand why posters would be unable to recognize his talent, it's because they haven't watched him play. Underperforming in the most renowned midfield in your first season doesn't mean you aren't talented. Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus wouldn't all be vying for a player that didn't have talent, particularly when one of them ends up paying one of their largest ever transfer fees on said player. He's shown glimpses of talent at Barcelona, the kind he showed plenty of at Valencia, that much I've seen most Barca fans state with no problem. He's just been underperforming, as has much of the team this season.
     
  8. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    This is the parroting I was referring to. The Croatia game I can see being a borefest but against Austria, Portugal had 23 shots, vs. Austria's 3. Against Poland, who dominated Germany in their second-half against them and could have easily won, Portugal outshot them 21 to 14.

    The only borefest was Croatia and that's if you find no enjoyment in a highly tactical match. Against France, Portugal held the game until extra-time when they really started attacking, with the game ending with Portugal having 9 shots vs. France's 18. Although I'd be curious as to what other approach people would want Portugal to have taken given they were playing a France team in a Paris final, with their overwhelming star player leaving the game early through injury.

    And yes, @Blondo, can poke fun at the Portuguese league all he wants yet it will continue to be a conveyor belt of top talent that feeds the elite clubs, with your list a good representation of that talent and not even as extensive as it could have been.
     
  9. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    The Portuguese league deserves a fair bit of criticism ... and ridicule too (especially when Bas Dost is the top scorer) ... sure for the Portuguese it's relevant but hardly anybody else watches it (even in Brazil the attitude is quite indifferent to it).

    Did you at least watch Benfica's CL games? @benficafan3 ... I enjoyed the ones against Napoli (Nelsinho, your 23yo "prospect" playing on the same flank as Mertens) ... Mertens played roughly 110' over the 2 legs and bagged 3 goals and an assist (directly involved in 4 of the 6 goals that Benfica conceded) ... in the 2nd one, IIRC, he provided an assist, a deft flick, immediately after coming on and scored a nice goal himself not much later to secure the win ... in the other leg ... Nelsinho was slowly jogging back, gifting Mertens acres of space before he was finally clipped on the edge of the box (Mertens then scored the first one with a well-placed free kick) ... during the second goal, Nelsinho was caught ball watching ... very poor marking throughout. If you like lists so much ... instead of 23yo "prospects" that are unproven in a top league, start including players like Mertens, a player in his prime, and he's in scorching form:
    [​IMG]


    Compared to Portugal ... check out brave little Belgium's list (starting XI with Hazard, Lukaku, KDB, Mertens, Carrasco, Nainggolan, etc.) ... only Meunier "needs introduction" ... and look at him lately (the worldies he scored earlier this season aren't in this vid; he's also more of a starter than your BVB "boy" based on his stats, you do know those are easily available, and despite having much better stats I wouldn't call him a starter at PSG) ... as "the few" really means only a handful of teams ... Portugal aren't one of these teams (and neither are Belgium) ... apropos, your list had quite a few holes ... maybe you should indeed fear mighty Hungary when they come to Portugal ... seriously they're dire, they didn't need a result against Portugal at the EUROs, the game was a joke, Portugal conceding 3 goals was laughable ... in the current Qs, again, Portugal were lucky to be drawn into a very soft group (good job Faroe-slayer) ... but like the previous Qs, losing against Albania ffs, Portugal started with a defeat.


    Also, in Portugal, like in Holland etc., 20 is old ... quite a few "prospects" on your list were overaged ones ... e.g. 25yo and playing in Portugal, what's wrong with the "kid" ... again, if you want to have a strong argument include them when they're proven quality in a top league (Faroe-slaying, shouldn't merit a mention either). Even Portugal's golden boy, Renato Sanches, is a case of too much, too soon ... hardly plays at all and he's out of sorts when he's given minutes ... causing harm to his development.
     
  10. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Country:
    Portugal


    [​IMG]

    This one picture here is more than your entire nation ever accomplished in football

    - an all time great with a major international trophy in one image....
     
  11. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Country:
    Portugal
    [​IMG]


    LOL WTF IS THAT ? CUCKS!!!!! LOSERS NEVER WON AT ANYTHING HAHAHAHA
     
  12. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Country:
    Portugal
  13. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Country:
    Portugal
  14. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Oh deary, you're fuming ... that's a big no-no ... you're lucky that I'm not keen on that report button ... more speech instead of less (up with that sort of thing) ... can use poor trolls as a pulpit to keep preaching (still, down with that sort of thing).

    Also, those pics could have been used to parachute out of this thread ... 4 posts already, SMH ... what a waste. Let's join you at this level: Portugal in 2016 <<<<<<<<<<<< Greece in 2004 <<< pretty much any other EURO in history.

    Again, be less of a fangirl ... Gomes must be better than Iniesta or Messi, I guess ... Barca's legendary teams weren't just the best legionnaires around but these teams had several home-grown players leave their mark on modern football ... when dipping their toe into the transfer market Barca paid a lot more for e.g. Overmars (and that's well before the massive inflation of transfer fees) ... adjusted for inflation, getting Fabregas back was much more expensive (warming CFC's bench now though) ... Alcacer's fee wasn't much lower ... both he and Gomes have been poor and both also came from that very poor Valencia side ... awful season, banged up by sides with no budget to speak of (in Europe too), bottom half ffs, because nobody showed much except for a few glimpses ... it really isn't a surprise that Gomes isn't working out.
     
  15. Nani_17

    Nani_17 Member+

    Nov 3, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    For your sake, I hope Belgium can do something with this current crop. After this current generation I have a hunch they will go back to being that team no one even considers or thinks about.

    Portugal, meanwhile has been pretty consistent for the last 18 years, and we have enough evidence to suggest that should continue for a little while more.

    I also wouldn't mind seeing Portugal play Belgium in the next WC. I would have some good positive thoughts going into that match, as all my recent memories of that match up have been pretty easy victories for Portugal.
     
  16. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I got Australia and New Zealand in the Final.
    (Not really but I wanted to bring the thread back to the topic at hand... ...the Confederations Cup.)
     
  17. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Apr 30, 2009
    Lima, Peru
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    I actually have them as a tiebreaker question in my family's Confed Cup pool: which will get more points in the group stage? :D
     
  18. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    #293 Rickdog, Feb 12, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
    well, for that to happen, they must first, make it for 2018.

    Currently Switzerland has their number at the european qualifiers (they have a 3 pt. lead, cause they defeated them at home by 2 - 0), and lets not forget that only one team makes it directly to the WC from each european qualifier group.
    (Portugal's only points there, have come after defeating "powerhouses", Andorra, Faroe Islands and Latvia):rolleyes:
     
  19. Nani_17

    Nani_17 Member+

    Nov 3, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Thanks captain obvious, I was under the impression the qualifiers are over and we already made it.
     
  20. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    The Confed Cup is considered a dress-rehearsal for the World Cup ... as you overvalue friendlies, glorified or not, you could add a few memories ahead of the final event in 2018 ... indeed Portugal has been pretty consistent at the World Cup ... consistently failing to qualify for nearly the entirety of the 20th century ... and in half of the apps from 2002 onwards Portugal failed to survive the group stage ... that's horribly underwhelming ... currently Portugal's WCQs aren't going swimmingly ... going back to failure in the Qs already? ... Portugal as well have a lot to be modest about ... good job in the EUROs though, I'll gladly give you a big thumbsup for it, and enjoy the Confed Cup as most likely it will be the last.

    Show Spoiler
    Belgium qualified much more often (twice as many apps at the World Cup as Portugal) ... and only once did we finish outside the top 16 ... i.e. our worst finish was 19th in France1998, with one of Holland's best ever teams in the group instead of a not so mighty Hungary (Belgium ended up in 3rd place after 3 draws; recently another team didn't manage to do better, IIRC it was in some awful trny in 2016) ... Portugal often finishes outside the top 16, in half of their WC outings to be exact ... but yea Portugal only managed to qualify for a handul of those.

    [​IMG]

    Also, I don't mind adding to our H2H lead in competitive matches (friendlies, meh) ... 3-3-2 in favour of Belgium (not unusual that it's only 8 competitive matches and it isn't really important TBF) ... still Portugal have never beaten Belgium in a WC match (while Belgium won the 1990WCQ convincingly with 3-0) ... in 2014 Belgium could have met Portugal in the RO16 ... but the US saw them off (didn't even matter that the US lost their last game) ... pro tip: try to survive the group ... although for a side like Portugal trying to qualify or to not to end up as WC bottom dwellers is a big ask already ... even now, after the EUROs, betting sites offer longer odds for Portugal than us ... Portugal could very well fail to qualify for Russia2018 ... wouldn't be a surprise considering their track record ... IF Portugal pull it off and we face each other, who do you think will play dominantly?

    Portugal are defined by individualism ... a lack of tactics ... soaking up pressure and looking to hit their opponents on the counter or aimlessly crossing from wide positions is what's to be expected from this structurally flawed Portugal "team" and a manager like Santos ... insufficient teamwork leading to predictable and largely ineffective attacks ... most headed shots per game, that's Portugal ... hoofing balls opportunistically into no man's land is what Portugal resorts to.

    Show Spoiler
    At least Belgium have taken steps to remedy what used to be decided by 100% improvisation, what was the lack of a plan for how to attack ... now we finally have a framework ... Belgium are quickly becoming a much stronger team since the manager was replaced, helped a lot by Thierry Henry ... they're doing a much, much, much better job fitting the players into the system (think Chelsea) ... our squad looked good before, yet finally our team is a joy to watch ... very attacking, high intensity, building the play from the back in a fluid and vertical way, compact and a very high defensive line, often calling the widemen into play, lots of near and quick passes in the final third, lightning-fast transitions and lots of players pushing forward.

    Portugal had one of the oldest squads at France2016, while the likes of Hungary also had their grandpa pants pulled up very high, kek Kiraly ... Belgium one of the youngest, together with the likes of Germany ... actually Belgium's XI was the youngest to start in a tournament in roughly 50 years, basically since the beginning of the EUROs ... while Portugal's XI, with an average age of about 30, in that laughable game against Hungary, was one of the oldest ... especially that back 4 was ancient, with an average age of 34.

    [​IMG]

    R.Carvalho is nearing his 40s, very telling that Portugal called him up, and Pepe could be joining him in China soon (or rot on the bench/injured/suspended) ... the other "serviceable" CBs are very much on the wrong side of 30 and a bit crap ... e.g. Fonte will be well over 34yo in Russia2018 and he's one of the "kiddies" because none of the younger ones have stepped up to an adequate level ... Portugal's spine is ancient ... maybe they should ask Brazil to ship over another few Pepes ... up front Portugal better pray A.Silva comes good or keep struggling as always ... some of Portugal's "kiddies" will unlock their potential but usually most flatter to deceive ... Portugal could very well be left with many holes in the squad, dotted with unproven players or a very thin one with few options ... CR7's last WC chance ... good luck replacing the irreplaceable ... it could even end tragically if Portugal once again fail to qualify.

    Show Spoiler
    "Belgium continue to bring through insanely talented players via their impressive youth set-up at an alarming rate" ... every year we keep receiving plaudits over and over again ... also, as I said before, Belgium's XI are very young and very hungry (benficafan posted a list with top, top Portugal players, some "prospects" were well in their 20s though, go compare with Belgium's XI that I shared) ... for the forseeable future we're good, very good ... still Germany and especially France are very much on another level than Belgium or Portugal ... as Portugal have plenty of personnel to replace and efforts to properly bed in the kiddies need to be ramped up ... Belgium's "woes" are few in comparison.


    Tl;dr ... for Portugal, anonymity beckons more insistently
     
  21. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Country:
    Portugal
    Belgium NT Trophies

    [​IMG]

    # of Ballon Dors for Belgium

    [​IMG]

    Champions League Titles of Belgium

    [​IMG]
     
  22. ---Z---

    ---Z--- Member+

    Nov 2, 2005
    CAMPEAO
    Club:
    Sporting CP Lisbon
    Country:
    Portugal
    I do agree Portugal's Defense is aging and will likely be a problem in 2018. Hopefully they find some others to step in.

    midfield is very strong and more forward options are emerging. As for World cup Qualifying, there are plenty of games to go. It's not about how you start, its how you finish.
     
    BocaFan repped this.
  23. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    A big thumbsup ... at least we can agree on something

    Well, it's about time that Portugal improve their WC record and qualify for Russia2018 after a strong finish.

    Now let's have a look at Portugal's "golden" boy in midfield and while we're at it compare him to Belgium's most recent addition ... Renato Sanches and Tielemans ... same age, very different stats so far ... and as Tielemans has more often been used as a holding midfielder, his career stats are just scary, receiving plaudits for his defensive work as well

    Renato Sanches

    2 goals - 1 assist (league) ... 0 (domestic cup) ... 0 (Europe) ... only 2 goals and 1 assist so far in his career, that's just poor

    2,269' (league) ... 337' (domestic cup) ... 730' (Europe) ... career total: 3,336'

    His development is regressing ... because he's far too raw he's hardly been given any minutes this season and he was abysmal in the few minutes he received ... too much, too soon ... damaged his development and continues to rot on the bench ... IF, and that's a big one, he gets a lot more minutes he can avoid dropping well below the average experience for his age ... yet it IS looking really bad for him ... still what a strike, although it took a deflection, in the Poland game ... luckily he tried to get a shot off or else it would have been a complete non-event.

    Show Spoiler

    Tielemans

    22 goals - 21 assists (league) ... 4 - 1 (domestic cup) ... 5 - 3 (Europe) ... 31 goals and 25 assists so far in his career and counting, as not only does he play, he has been the driving force in midfield

    9,777' (league) ... 796' (domestic cup) ... 2,011' (Europe) ... career total: 12,584'

    He bagged 15.5 goals for every goal Sanches has, provided 25 assists while Sanches just has the one, for every 90' Sanches was given Tielemans racked up roughly 4x as much, in his debut for country he immediately provided an assist (only 11' as a sub against Estonia though) ... Tielemans shattered every age record available, impressed everybody as he turned into an ultra-modern midfielder and although he's still a teenager he's now phenomenally experienced ... with Tielemans, it’s not a matter of if, but a matter of when he'll stake his claim as one of the best in the business.


    2016 was Portugal's first and only prize ... before looking at trophy cabinets, maybe wait until Portugal have taken home a bit more silverware ... investing in a trophy cabinet makes more sense for some of the sides at the Confed Cup than for others ... as I said before: "Portugal as well have a lot to be modest about" ... especially now the diluted EUROs have lost prestige because of this expansion mess and the way EURO2016 was decided. At the Ballon d'Or, football merely pats itself on the back and more importantly it's an individual award (Fifa handed us one of those gala-event awards, Team of the Year 2015, it's completely useless but at least it's for the NT) ... the Ballon d'Or is an evening when egotistical nature trumps team-tactical play, unlike on the pitch ... it's quite apt as Portugal are defined by individualism ... a lack of tactics.

    Show Spoiler
    Belgium have won silverware well before Portugal did ... when Belgium won the 1920 Olympics, it was the most prestigious trophy in football ... back then there was no World Cup and football at the Olympics was an event for senior teams, not youth like it is now ... TBH, we don't even care about it ... better win the World Cup before it's turned into another diluted monstrosity


    PS your trolls are old ... maybe you can help me translate the ancient memes ... as they look like hieroglyphs to me:
    pedobear | pedobear| lolcats ... what does that even mean, grandpa?
     
  24. Nani_17

    Nani_17 Member+

    Nov 3, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    "consistently failing to qualify for nearly the entirety of the 20th century"

    That is why I said the last 18 years, maybe you struggle with math? but the 70's and 80's and most of the 90's are not within the last 18 years. Even then, we have 1 semi final(great) 1 rd of 16, losing to the eventual champions and only conceding 1 goal in 4 games(average) and 2 group exits(poor). Not a huge sample size, but not horrible, also not good.

    "currently Portugal's WCQs aren't going swimmingly ... going back to failure in the Qs already?"
    This is certainly not new for us, struggling at the beginning of qualifying has become our norm, and in the end making it has also become our norm.

    "enjoy the Confed Cup as most likely it will be the last."
    Well it may just be the last for everyone as they may put an end to the tournament. Isn't 1 Confederation cup better than none? So enjoy watching the next CC, as you more than likely will never have a chance to watch your team play.

    "3-3-2 in favour of Belgium (not unusual that it's only 8 competitive matches and it isn't really important TBF)"

    Again you are taking my words and inserting your own rendition. I said recent results, as Belgium last won in 1989. Last 4 matches Portugal 3-0-1

    "Portugal are defined by individualism ... a lack of tactics ... soaking up pressure and looking to hit their opponents on the counter or aimlessly crossing from wide positions is what's to be expected from this structurally flawed Portugal "team" and a manager like Santos"

    This is just straight up comical. Portugal won the Euro, not sure you know this. Portugal and France were the two teams that held opposition to the lowest pass completion rate in midfield, no coincidence they were the two finalist.
    Santos has had success with Greece, considering the quality, success with Portugal and success in club level. However someone needs to call him and let him know there is a random guy on a soccer blog with more understanding of tactics than him.

    "R.Carvalho is nearing his 40s, very telling that Portugal called him up, and Pepe could be joining him in China soon (or rot on the bench/injured/suspended) ... the other "serviceable" CBs are very much on the wrong side of 30 and a bit crap ... e.g. Fonte will be well over 34yo in Russia2018 and he's one of the "kiddies" because none of the younger ones have stepped up to an adequate level"

    Well Carvalho being called up was no surprise, he was having a great year with Monaco despite his age. Pepe has also been named to team of the tournament 2 or 3 times now. However I actually do agree with you that this is our biggest question mark going into the future.

    Look at the U21, U20, U19 and U17 results over the last several years. I believe 1 or 2 tournaments don't say much about the youth, but collectively through several years I believe it starts to paint a picture. That picture suggest we are in a better position going forward.

    International trophies= Portugal
    Ballon Dors=Portugal
    Champions league=Portugal
    Top level Managers=Portugal

    Euro semi final appearances, Portugal 5 Belgium 2
    World cup semi final appearances, Portugal 2 Belgium 1
    However WC appearances, Belgium 12 Portugal 6, so I guess we are all even:thumbsup:
     
  25. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Guess what, I can pick an arbitrary period too ... besides from 2002 onwards Portugal finally stopped consistently failing to qualify (the 20th century however) ... be happy I gave you that one ... "still in half of the apps from 2002 onwards Portugal failed to survive the group stage ... that's horribly underwhelming" ... also, the last time Portugal faced Belgium only a teenage Fellaini was there ... completely different team than the current one (Fellaini being a squaddie now) ... unlike Belgium, plenty of players from back then still play for Portugal though ... ancient.

    Why overvalue youth trnys? ... it's more important to help promising kiddies unlock their potential than to win youth tournaments ... like friendlies they don't mean much ... or African sides should be dominating the World Cup ... a win at all cost approach to youth trnys usually proves detrimental to youth development.

    Until recently, runners-up at the EUROs was the best finish for both Portugal and Belgium ... neither Portugal nor Belgium did better than a SF exit at the World Cup (still Olympics 1920, wink wink nudge nudge), the Ballon d'Or is an individual award, NTs can't win it, nor can a NT win the CL ... sure there are much better Portuguese managers than Santos, e.g. Jardim, still check out spielverlagerung for a better analysis of Portugal's performances EUROs ... accept the criticism or not but they do make a lot of sense.

    PS on the All-time table of the FIFA World Cup ... Portugal (17th) outranked by Belgium (14th) ... still who cares ... even Holland would gladly exchange all their runners-up medals to once lift the cup ... that's the only piece of silverware that matters ... 2nd is the first loser and more of those silly silly quotes.
     

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