2017 Confederations Cup - Qualifiers, News and Updates [R]

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Paul Calixte, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    You're whole list is full of exaggeration. But I will call this one out because I follow this league more than most. No. he's not ligue 1 player of the season by far. If anyone is its Lacazette. Silva isn't even the best player on Monaco.
     
    BocaFan repped this.
  2. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Go ahead and point some out.

    Non-biased posters, such as those in RedCafe, seem to think so. Considering both myself and you are biased, I'm inclined to think their opinions hold some weight.

    http://www.redcafe.net/threads/bernardo-silva.417267/page-4

    "The best player in France this year, by far.

    Phenomenal player and improved so much with Jardim.

    But to be honest, with Mata in our team, we have the same type of player so we don't need him"

    "For once they might be close to the truth, he is widely seen as the best player in the league."

    Let me know again where I exaggerated when I said there are those that consider him the best?

    I'm definitely sure Lacazette would be deemed the best player of a league when his team is not only 4th, but Monaco leads with arguably the best attack in Europe, much of which owed to Bernardo.

    Let me know what other exaggerations you (think) you find.
     
  3. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    lol what?

    I don't follow Ligue 1 closely but generally the 4th-best team can obviously have the league's best player. Why not?
     
  4. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Yes, they can. Although that is generally not the case. And not sure what the "lol what" is for. They currently have a higher goal difference than any other team in the league has goals. I'm sure you're well aware that is not very typical, in any league, particularly when it's February. And they topped a competitive CL group, before their form really kicked up.

    If you have a team in such high flying form relative to anybody else, let alone the 4th placed team, I feel comfortable saying that unless that 4th placed team is an extreme underdog, it does not consist of a better performing player relative to Monaco. Since we're discussing Lyon and not Guingamp I'd consider it not even arguable.
     
  5. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
  6. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    The "lol" was for the best attack in Europe comment.

    Don't really follow the best player logic you're making either. It's a team sport. Heck, Maradona was playing for a third place team in the prime of his career. Henry-led Arsenal finished 4th in the season they reached the CL final. So many more examples...

    I think you're confusing 'best player' with the sort of criteria needed to win a Ballon d'Or - type award (i.e. most popular name on a successful team). Your comment about him leading the best attack in Europe is what makes me think you strayed off in that direction. :unsure:
     
  7. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    I'm aware your comment was concerning Europe. I frankly don't see how it's "lol" worthy that a team, which has a higher goal difference than any other team has goals in the 5th best ranked European league, be considered arguably the best attack in Europe. Seems a pretty reasonable argument, notice I didn't say it was a fact. You can try arguing the point.

    I won't be baited into the rest of your post, which is simply a deflection from the actual argument of whether Bernardo Silva is the best player in France. (Not to mention that historically, quality in a league was much more dispersed relative to today and not as top heavy so your argument using historical examples isn't as fullproof as you make it seem, but we can save that for another time)
     
  8. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Why would I be biased with regards to Portuguese players?

    And some guy on Reddit does not make for fact.

    Lemar is Monacos best attacker. Best players are Bakayoko and Fabinho. Then Bernardo and yes... Falcao.
     
  9. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Because Madrid and Barcelona have the best attacks in Europe. It is not even debatable. They score almost as much in a vastly strongly league. Monaco is more at Dortmund's level.

    The EPL has been top heavy for a long time though. Certainly it was during Henry's era. // Recent Bundesliga is as top heavy as leagues get but a good argument can be made that Bayern didn't have the best player in the league for any recent season even while they were wrapping-up Bundesliga titles in February (e.g. De Bruyne in 2014-15). They are just strong in every position.
     
  10. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Reddit?

    In any case, Sports Illustrated, pretty reputable from what I hear, disagrees with you as well.

    http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...ilva-manchester-city-champions-league-ligue-1
     
  11. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Look. I'm sure some people could argue Bernardo Silva is no 1. The contentious issue is that by no means us this a given.
     
  12. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Of course it is never a given, it is subjective, that is why I said it was "widely believed" and not a "fact". My comment was not out of line, considering there are many who believe he is #1, whereas your initial comment made it sound like I had no basis for stating such a thing.
     
  13. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    In top form yes, I agree, it isn't debatable.

    If we're discussing current form, then yes, it is debatable.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ona-Monaco-lead-scoring-charts-100-goals.html

    Monaco, Real, and Barcelona are in a class of their own in terms of scoring this season. I would not take Monaco over the other two if given the choice but it is not absurd to claim they have some say in claiming they are currently Europe's best attack, particularly given that also contains a striker like Falcao that has finally found form.
     
  14. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    What about Shakhtar Donetsk? Similar GPG as Monaco. :laugh:

    And before you bring-up the quality of the Ukrainian league, remember you're comparing Ligue 1 to Spain.
     
  15. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Except Monaco is in the Champions League, and they are performing considerably better in their league ahead of another Champions League team.

    No Ukrainian team, including Shakhtar, is in the Champions League. So, nah I'd say the quality is considerably different.

    Shakhar also, to my knowledge, doesn't have a striker that used to be considered the most lethal in the world, and that has recently found form. Pretty important detail, I'd say.
     
  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY

    Quality is considerably different from what? Of course I’m not claiming Shakhtar’s offense to be at the same level of Barca and Madrid. But using your logic of just comparing scoring rates without factoring in quality of opposition, they would be.

    Monaco is in CL but not all teams in CL are at or around the same standard (not even close), nor did Monaco score many goals in CL.

    Falcao? He’s past his prime though. That doesn’t mean he isn’t still good but nowhere near the level of Suarez in great form.
     
  17. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013

    NOT really ...

    Ronaldo - if he's fully fit this time, Russia2018 will be Ronny's last chance IF Portugal even qualify ... he'll already be well over 33yo though

    Pepe - kek ... a liability, hasn't played much this season, will be well over 35yo, even when he isn't injured Portugal's spine either is near retirement or belongs in a home eating apple sauce with their teeth in a glass

    For the next guys, you added their ages ... makes it sound like an excuse ... for his age, he's blahblah ... "Portugal should only logically be considerably stronger" ... not really ... they can also regress/stagnate, get a bad injury at any moment, play poorly on the day, be drawn into a group that's a lot harder than the one Hungary won, get a rough path to the final, actually need to win more than a couple of matches, face much stronger opponents, ...and so on, and so on ... possibly they all come good yet fail to gel in underwhelming horror :ninja:

    Raphael Guerreiro - he's hardly a starter, used as a sub in half of his BuLi apps, only played over 500' and in just 3 games he stayed on for 90' this season ... also, only 2 BuLi games as LB (unlike Portugal)

    Bernardo Silva - I like this "kid" but he isn't even the best player at his club ... let alone "by far Ligue 1's best" ... also, he needs a move to a stronger league and to prove himself there

    Renato Sanches - "plays for Bayern" ... seldomly and whenever he's given a chance he usually plays poorly

    Joao Mario - already 24 and still he was inconsistent when I watched Inter ... not their best player and let's see what Suning has in mind first

    Andre Gomes - "people will laugh at this one" ... that's a bit harsh, but indeed he's struggling ... not a surprise if you watched him at Valencia though ... why even mention him?

    Nelson Semedo - COME ON, be less of a fangirl, he plays in Portugal ffs, list him if he performs well in a league where Bas Dost isn't the top scorer, haha, Bas Dost ffs ... also, born in 1993, a bit old to still tag him as a prospect

    Andre Silva - oh deary, again I'll refer to Bas Dost ... also, a hat-trick against the Faroe Islands, ffs ... my gran living in a shed with her cats in Tenerife would do better (despite constantly tripping over her saggy bits)

    William Carvalho - almost 25 ... what's he still doing in Portugal? ... what's wrong with him? ... he even had a stint at lowly Cercle (who play in Belgium's lower div... a graveyard for clubs)


    "few countries will be able to match that talent" ...
    Show Spoiler

    ... most Belgians aren't nearly as positive as I am, but even I wouldn't claim that brave little Belgium is currently among the top few (Germany, Brazil, etc. are) ... still here's our XI (3-4-3):

    Eden Hazard - "needs no introduction"
    Lukaku - "needs no introduction"
    De Bruyne or Mertens - "needs no introduction"
    Dembele or De Bruyne - "needs no introduction"
    Nainggolan - "needs no introduction"
    Carrasco - "needs no introduction"
    Meunier - PSG, scored a few worldies, not considered a starter though, while you consider R.Guerreiro a starter (only has half as many minutes and half the amount of starts as Meunier) ... he really performs for country now but also for club he's rated generously (top performances this season but TBH shouldn't have the highest rating at PSG)
    Kompany - "needs no introduction" but reintroduction (recently returned from injury)
    Vertonghen - "needs no introduction"
    Alderweireld - "needs no introduction"
    Courtois - "needs no introduction"

    Belgium are quickly becoming a much stronger team since the manager was replaced, helped a lot by Thierry Henry ... they're doing a much, much, much better job fitting the players into the system (think Chelsea) ... still one of De Bruyne/Dembele/Mertens won't get into the starting XI ... our squad looked good before, yet finally our team is a joy to watch ... very attacking, high intensity, building the play from the defence in a fluid and vertical way, compact and a very high defensive line, often calling the widemen into play, lots of near and quick passes in the final third, lightning-fast transitions and lots of players pushing forward.

    Squad, your argument, not plural, isn't even that strong ... Chile is a team that's really easy on the eyes (a shame we couldn't arrange a friendly with them ahead of the confed cup) ... check out spielverlagerung ... they were quite unflattering when analyzing Portugal ... you will NOT like the quotes I can pull from there ... still, they're spot on ... also, boring Portugal are boring ... nobody should have to stomach long periods of that sort of thing.
     
  18. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    lol ok
     
  19. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    #269 Blondo, Feb 8, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
    @benficafan3

    Already parachuting out of this thread :D ... next time you post a list, try to only include players that actually play for their clubs, that aren't crocked, that are proven quality in a top league (not a TPO playground where most clubs are worthless), that aren't overaged, that aren't "prospects" well in their 20s (the mention of a youth trny when talking about a player that will turn 25 soon, kek), etc. ... your list would be very short ... a hat-trick against the Faroe Islands, haha, why would you even mention that?

    PS glancing at betting sites ... nobody is impressed by Portugal ... even after the EUROs Portugal's odds are longer than England's :ninja: ... Pepe in 2014 kek ... Pepe in 2018 kekekek

     
  20. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    lol ok

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    @benficafan3 confirming the diluted EUROs were crap ... it's only apt that it was decided in a crap way.
    Pepe still injured? ... he's been injured a lot lately ... silver lining, no suspensions.
     
  22. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    @Blondo - first you began with Mexico being a "chihuahua". Now you call the Portuguese league a "TPO playground".

    You should apologize for trolling.
     
  23. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Oh deary, the Chihuahua lover is back ... check out the Mexico sub ... and show them plenty of love.
    The confed cup's group A is really weak ... it's your pet team, the ruskies, the kiwis and boring Portugal.

    Also ... just checking the "facts" he provided ... turns out to be a bit fake

    Thanks for pointing out an omission ... I should have said "an empty TPO playground" ... hardly anybody attends the games of about 15 clubs (out of 18) ... it's mainly a playground for the corrupt ... and when you're still playing there as a 25yo something must be wrong with you ... so I can only assume William Carvalho isn't one of his better "facts" ... he did well at a youth trny though.

    PS to end on a positive note ... more people should watch ... I mean it's Bas Dost and the Faroe-slayer
     
  24. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Country:
    Argentina
    Some important players have been there recently, including DiMaria, Casillas, Gaitan, E Perez, Pereira, Fucile, Falcao, Aimar, Otamendi, Garay, Herrera, C Rodriguez, L Gonzalez, Brahimi, Maicon, Rojo and James.
     
  25. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Instead of grasping at straws ... e.g. Bas Dost and the Faroe-slayer, doing well at a youth trny, etc.... to have a strong "squad"-argument he needed a better list ... with players that moved on and that are proven quality in bigger leagues ... players that aren't being called "prospects" when they're well in their 20s (potential is a very fickle thing, especially in football, in other news: water is wet, the ball is round, boring Portugal is boring, ...).

    On a side note, which league is the worst offender when talking about money leaving football (Portuguese authorities investigating "Football Leaks", haha, as if they have nothing better to do)?

    ... to fall into the trap of recklessly importing legionnaires and selling their souls to the markets ... the main beneficiaries of the flows of legionnaires are the top clubs of the big leagues anyway ... these clubs concentrate talent even more strongly than in the past ... this process is at the heart of the deterioration of competitive balance in Europe ... and it's a stain on those that keep facilitating it.

    PS @Pipiolo ... who do you fancy Portugal or Chile (sorry, obese chihuahua isn't on) ... I enjoy watching Chile a lot more ... it's what triggered him in the first place.
     

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