PBP: 2017 CONCACAF Gold Cup Quarterfinals: USA vs El Salvador

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Sebsasour, Jul 19, 2017.

  1. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Yet.....he is STIL better than LOLOLOLas.
     
  2. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Based on what we are seeing this tourney, he was right, though, wasn't he?
     
  3. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Absolutely. Wait til he gets back in shape from his foot fracture. He'll be even better but if I were Bruce, I'd re-consider carefully where he is placed on the pitch. I like him as left or right mid in a 3 man midfield in a 433 type set up or inside the wb in a 352 set up and play him as the "10" with 2 more defensively postured mids.

    The problem for me with the 2 man American blob 442 (Dempsey plus Altidore who didn't score) with Gyassi as outside mid is that he tends to get stuck too far from goal. And look who the c-mids are, Nagbe/Acosta and Bradley, who cant put a thru ball in to Jozy or Demps - on those occasions when they aren't totally pre-occupied with defending the middle, as they should be.

    I was disappointed in Arena for playing him so long against ES when we need him for CR.

    --------------------morris---agudelo
    ---v/fana--gyassi----Bradley----dax--zusi
    --------------Besler---gonzo---miazga
     
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    So you were ok with Klinsmann not playing him, then.
     
  5. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm fine giving looks to players. I'm disappointed Nagbe never maximizes his talent.
     
  6. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    No, obviously this team isn't great. We all know that an all-MLS (with a few LigaMX and Euro players) isn't as good of a team as we have, but I certainly think some players have shown well, and I don't even think this is necessarily the best team we have. People talk about our lack of creativity, but you do realize that Arena also left off Feilhaber who is a very good player and would've been one of this team's best players? He also left off players like Kljestan, Nguyen who whether they are very overrated or not (I think they are), they will give you more of a possession and creativity game than Zardes and co. Some of it was poor squad selection. And then we gotta realize that we have seen a migration of young talent towards MLS that rivals that of the talent in Europe, so those players might not be ready for this team, but they will be eventually.
     
  7. dundee9

    dundee9 Member

    Jan 13, 2007
    A migration of young talent towards MLS that rivals that of the talent to Europe? Um what talent is that??
     
    juveeer repped this.
  8. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Do your own research
     
  9. dundee9

    dundee9 Member

    Jan 13, 2007
    That's exactly what the guy who thinks the world is flat said to me.
     
    matabala repped this.
  10. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ussoccer, you follow our youth, almost all the top young talent is going --------> overseas.

    For every Carleton or Pomykal there's like three Americans abroad, if not more, and others in MLS academies who aren't signed and are just waiting their turn to bolt.
     
    juveeer repped this.
  11. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I can't say that I agree.

    In one of the threads in the YNT forum in April, I made this rankings. Its not updated, but it probably wouldn't be that different. 11 MLS, 7 Europe, 2 currently with "DA" teams.

     
  12. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Name them.

    And Nagbe doesn't count as he is a fly in.

    The over 30 trio of creative mids you mention is ONCE AGAIN not in the squad. That makes 2 coaches in a row who have overlooked them. If either thought they were the answer, why wouldn't they be brought in?

    Zardes has actually been one of the more impactfful players on this roster.
     
  13. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Hamid and Howard were both good in the one match they've gotten. Besler's been good. Acosta and McCarty have done well, outside of that first GC match. Rowe and Agudelo did well. Morris and Dwyer combined for four goals. Dempsey had an assist on one of the goals against El Salvador, Bradley played well against ES. Altidore and Nagbe are players with a lot of caps. Definitely some players in that mix who could help the NT.
     
    deuteronomy repped this.
  14. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    "Disdain" is too strong a word but yes, they're more potted plants that chase coaches for a 20 second sound bite than anything else. Ironically, they were more useful in the days when coaches didn't do the now obligatory sideline interview at half or whenever. The intrusion of the Media during the actual playing of the game always bothers me. Seeing a reporter talking to a coach while the game is "active", his players standing around in a huddle in the background is absurd and unprofessional. Can you see a Lombardi, Landry or Auerbach talking to a sideline reporter instead of to their players? There is no longer any separation between Sport and Media. Play the game, let the commentators comment THEN talk to the press. It's all one big TV show produced by Fox or ESPN. Rant over...
     
    soccerusa517 and russ repped this.
  15. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    Sounds like a job for Super Sunil....not.
     
  16. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I feel like there is a lot of chicken vs egg going on with the MLS vs. Europe stuff.

    Yeah, generally our best players do, have and will continue to play in Europe for the foreseeable future since the money and competition is better there. That's no mystery and it has been that way for a long time now. But, sending a mediocre player to Europe won't make that player suddenly miles better, if for no other reason than if they're a poor player, they're not going to get a game in a better league anyway.

    Sure, there are exceptions, Donovan being the biggest or Bradley/Jozy when MLS threw a giant pile of money at them. But, in the vast majority of cases, good players get bought by good teams. Good teams aren't buying our scrubs and turning them into world beaters. They wouldn't bother for one, and it's likely impossible second. Don't get me wrong, I am glad our top players go to Europe where they can flourish and be rewarded. I just don't understand the notion that we can just send everyone to Europe as some sort of panacea for crappy soccer players.

    In short, our best players aren't our best players because they play in Europe. They play in Europe because they are our best players.
     
  17. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Playing in Europe as a youth is a high-risk/high-reward option.

    The bottleneck is not lack of desire, though. It's lack of passport.
     
    russ repped this.
  18. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, this seems obvious, and true even for our young prospects. Those displaying great ability, especially in an attacking spot, which can be seen through dynamism and statistics like goals+assists; are much more easily identified across the pond, bid on, and as a result snapped up.

    That doesn't mean they developed them. The reality is a vast majority of development is going to take place in your upbringing, in your backyard (case in point - Deuce), at the local field, and in organized football through school and clubs. By the time you reach your later teens, you're largely what you're going to be as a player, outside of physical growth, which environment has nothing to do with.

    If anything going to Europe may have blunted their development over the years because they are surrounded by more negativity, have opportunities limited, and face pressures as Americans which can erode their confidence. The most important keys to success are to continue playing, stay motivated, and confident.

    It's not like the sample of European transports is littered with successes. We've always had a low elite player rate, whether that player went the European route or American one. Pulisic is on pace to comfortably be the best American player ever, but prior to that Donovan and Dempsey have been our best. Most went more the American route, with European adventures as a high majority of players of any note at least partake in. A good chunk of our elite attacking talent going to Europe is not some sort of new thing.

    Home is where the heart is. This is who is on average going to believe in our American players and accommodate them.

    Unfortunately, in the last couple of years, because of the shifting of rules in MLS, in an attempt to compete with Europe, while trying to cling on to the core principles that kept them afloat in the earlier years; the U.S. has been failing in giving our players opportunities to thrive. This has mostly adversely impacted our attacking talent because the amount DP/allocation money has been naturally directed toward foreign offensive players, because that's who has leverage (it's more profitable to be acquired than re-hired - see Bradley, Altidore, and Dempsey as American examples). This is a problem they need to take their heads out of their butts on to remedy, for the betterment of their own league and USS which impact them too.

    But the rules haven't hurt the defenders as much because that's seldom what teams are using those exceptions on. So MLS is still probably the most reliable route for American defenders, at least to begin their career.

    For most players, regardless if they start in America or Europe, to remain motivated they need to move up rungs in the ladder at a point. It's not their dream to play in the 15th best league in the world, and to make hundreds of thousands per as a realistic max. Football is a taxing sport. Eventually that passion is going to wane somewhat to drive you to run 5 miles a day (running by itself sucks to most people).

    So you do need that bridge to move across to (better leagues in, not freaking Scotland or the 2. BL) Europe at some point. Klinsmann exploded that bridge temporarily by not calling in new MLS players because they were in MLS and he wanted to punish them for that even though it was a matter of circumstance that he was making worse. Now those virtual MLS lifers need to get re-motivated when they have a late potential lifeline. Easier said than done.

    This group in Gold Cup has disappointed, and it's largely been an MLS-centric one. But some of the more promising ones from it like Roldan and Hamid, Bruce didn't give an opportunity to for whatever reason. And others like Rowe (not even someone who is ballyhood in MLS) plus Dwyer have seized the opportunity. A few of them have been decent as well.

    Vis a vis the narrative that we've under-performed in this tournament because MLS; was a similar thing being said about Europe/abroad when the 2015 squad who spent most of their seasons there at the time fared much worse than even this? Not by the same people. But you can't have it both ways. You can only try. They will continue to.
     
  19. FidelCashflow

    FidelCashflow Member

    Charlotte FC
    United States
    May 17, 2014
    NC
    Club:
    Charlotte
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably because the game was against Nicaragua
     
    russ and Eleven Bravo repped this.
  20. shnaggletooth

    shnaggletooth Member+

    Jun 23, 2002
    Nicaragua might be a minnow, but Bedoya played the number 10 position like he born (or reborn) to it. I don't know if that was Bedoya's first MNT start in that particular role, but we may have found some CM depth that we didn't know we had before.
     
  21. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    unlike you, I remember Grape Lichaj when he was just knee-high.
     

Share This Page