Looks like the Timbers are actually expanding their stadium by 4000 seats. Moneyball dictates we sell them the 4000 we're not using, right?
I never go through a turnstile when I enter. Even if one is there, I go around it to protect my "midsection". And, if anyone thinks the Union are using an intern or paid employee to pore over security cameras to count the number of people in order to decrease the attendance numbers, then there's no way to have a rational discussion.
Can't believe this discussion is still going on. I'm sure for all intents and purposes the number from the barcode scans - which is never disclosed - is close enough to the 'real bums on seats' number.
What the hell are you talking about? I work for the team and the tickets sold are real. EVERY MLB team announces their SOLD tickets. The Phillies (off to a fantastic start and using young players and they have the #1 farm system in baseball) are 9th in all of MLB in attendance. As I've said before, some nights the attendance isn't the "actual" (tell me Pittsburgh had anywhere near the pitiful 13,000 Monday night when it was closer to 5,000), but many nights (including just about every game this season) it is accurate. What "extreme" you are talking about I'd love to know. Again, I work for the team. The team had a one guaranteed contract next year and tons of young talent and buckets of money to spend on a great free-agent crop next year. Hopefully they spend it wisely. The Union? Well, the evidence is for all to see.
You may work for a team and may know better, but my understanding is that MLB teams (and MLS teams) announce ISSUED tickets, not SOLD tickets. Issued tickets are the sum of sold tickets tickets and those given away for free. In some cases (e.g the Union), teams can increase their attendance numbers significantly by giving away free tickets. Whether or not those people actually attend the game, the attendance numbers are greater. Do you know whether the Phillies announce sold tickets or issued tickets?
Does it really matter? I mean honestly the announced number is nothing but optics. At the end of the day announcing a higher or lower number isn't going to change how hard they are hit in the pocketbook if nobody shows up. Less people in the stadium = less revenue... I'm sure they have the actual ticket scan numbers and that's probably good knowledge for them to have internally, but who gives a damn if it's announced or not... it doesn't do us any good other than more ammunition to attack the team with. what is the argument even about at this point? what difference does any of this make? Why do we care if the numbers are accurate or not? They could have announced 62,000 in attendance for the Montreal game but it doesn't really change anything.
Assuming your questions are not rhetorical (and I suspect they are): As someone who deals with civil fraud on a daily basis, I find it fascinating that an apparently intended byproduct of the STH cards is the ability to inflate the "actual" attendance number. I never considered that until recently.
This isn't anything close to fraud though.... they are just reporting a different number than "actual attendance" and I don't think they ever claimed the numbers they reported were "actual". The Union aren't really gaining anything from doing it the way they are... you could make some stretches of an argument that it helps with perception, I suppose, but to say what they are doing is fraudulent is stretch. I just don't see why any of this matters at all... as long as their reporting methods are consistent, and I have no reason to believe they aren't, as fans we still get a decent barometer of Paid/Distributed tickets vs. Butts in Seats... estimates at STH Numbers and game over game performance at the gate. Also, I'm not sure I follow your comment about Season Ticket Cards.... of course STH's are counted as paid for every game.... how is the card inflating the number?
It's not fraud. My interest in all of this is how there are unintended consequences sometimes with a perceived benefit. See my posts above. There are many, many STHs (more than you would think) who scan ALL of their cards at EVERY game to get the "loyalty points" even though there are less people actually attending. For example, the STH who sits next to me comes to almost every game alone but scans both of his cards. At the last game, a poster on this forum went alone, yet likely scanned all 3 of his cards. The numbers of bar codes scanned versus actual attendance likely differs in the many hundreds. My point is that nobody can know the actual attendance. If I'm a company considering becoming a concessionaire at TES, I would want to know the actual attendance, not the announced attendance. Because of the STH cards and the fact that many are scanned without people accompanying them to games, however, I might be disappointed to learn that what was represented to me as actual attendance is quite inaccurate.
I'll try to find that out. To my knowledge it is only sold tickets, not distributed tickets. "Papering the house" went out with the 70s. Remember the Philadelphia Bell of the old WFL? Home opener was announced as 55,534 and the 2nd game as 64,719. Actual tickets sold were 13,855 for the opener and 6,200 for the 2nd game. When the team had to pay taxes it was discovered what the real figures were and they never overcame that fiasco. Later that year they had an announced crowd of 750. Yep, 750. I HOPE that was the actual, otherwise there may have been more rats there than fans.
My guess is that the people who really care about their s are the advertisers. They generally pay per eyeball on their advertisements. So, there must be something like Nielson or Arbitron that knows the numbers.
I"m not sure which thread to ask this on, but does anyone know if we are still hoping to do the stadium expansion?
My guess would be they are looking into a Stadium contraction. As of now, a 10,000 seat stadium would sell out every game and have a STH wait list.
Vancouver, Seattle, Atlanta and New England all play in non-SSS and Chivas is gone. Dallas currently uses a tarp behind one goal but that is due to remodeling and building the Soccer HOF.
16,297 vs. NYRB. Local rival, significant traveling support, promotions aplenty. Would have been an easy sellout in past years.
Even if you didn't know they existed beforehand, it was pretty easy to discern the "UNION" seats on the bridge side.
Sold and Filled are both important though. Less filled = less concession/parking/merch $$$ for the team.