He may have been looking upfield, but the AR and the AAR should have been watching. Throwing the ball from below waist level should always be fair play - just as playing the ball from the ground!
Well I think what kept the Ref from calling a foul was that Salah had hooked Ramos' arm before Ramos pulled on Salah's arm. He probably figured "you're both grabbing each other" and let it go. On Benzema/Karrius, for me it was an easy interference call. Benzema purposely moved into the release path. Just like jumping in front of a punt or jumping in front of an overhanded throw.
Ramos hooks first with the upper arm and elbow to Salah's uppper arm. Salah subsequently grabs with the hand. Salah releases as they go down, but Ramos shifts his hold to Salah's forearm and wrist, maintains it, and rolls his body away from Salah as they fall to the ground.
I wold have waived off the goal because I think Benzima is too close and knows exactly where his path is taking him. But that is only opinion and as Mass Ref says this is grey area.
Food for thought for the referees here: I do a little bit of judo and also found many judokas comment the same: What Ramos did is banned in judo, because it has a very high risk of injury, including breaking the arm. Now... If this was a judo match Ramos would have been disqualified for the move. The problem being that football referees are unlikely to know how dangerous such a move is. You are accustomed to kicks, studs in, so I understand why there was no card. Who expects a move banned in judo at a football match? But logically speaking - shouldn't something that is banned in judo for being a dangerous move and which results in forfeiting the match also be deserving of a red card in football? EDIT: Just let me add - the move that Sergio Ramos did is called Waki Gatame in judo and is banned across the board.
There’s nothing really more to be said about the Benzema goal. I think by the letter of the law it is a good goal. Ultimately he cut off the path of the ball, not challenging the gk from releasing in general. Spiritually, I feel that this is a bit contrary to the protections that are specifically given to the gk release. I don’t feel like the game wants to encourage attackers to challenge in this way: we have, after all, recently added restrictions against an attacker in the PA not being allowed to challenge for a ball first after a gk. Practically, are we in for a bit of a nightmare? Are players from youth to adult not now going to be emboldened to guard the gk release a la the inbound pass in basketball, especially against teams that want to play out? Where are we to draw our line?
A few examples: Three examples of someone doing the move and getting disqualified. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ude_hishigi_waki_gatame "Falling directly to the mat while applying or attempting to apply the Waki gatame in competition is listed as an Hansoku-make (Grave Infringement) by the International Judo Federation."
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ude_hishigi_waki_gatame "Falling directly to the mat while applying or attempting to apply the Waki gatame in competition is listed as an Hansoku-make (Grave Infringement) by the International Judo Federation." Grave Infringement = Serious Foul Play ergo obvious red card. Given the above proof and information I believe all those claiming this was not a red card offence need to rewatch the clip and reassess their position.
I did just that and still do not see serious foul play on the part of Ramos. He could be called for a holding foul. The slow-mo replay that starts at about 30 seconds into the clip El Rayo posted has a good angle view. He does pull Salah's arm in toward his body when they are both still on their feet (foul), but as they are headed to ground his arm is moving away from his body to brace himself. In the Judo examples you posted the offender uses the opponent's arm for leverage to throw them off their feet and appear to maintain the hold on the arm all the way to ground. I see a definite difference.
Two things: 1. No football referee is qualified to make this judgement. The fact of the matter is that the best person to judge what Ramos did would be... a judo referee. Despite being a certified football referee you are unqualified to actually assess the situation - you lack the proper professional knowledge. And that to me also says something about the challenge. 2. In my personal opinion as someone who did train judo - Ramos locked Salah's arm and rotated his body in such a way that for me is textbook Waki Gatame. What Ramos did was actually worse than in the above clip, because those moves were made from a standing position. Ramos did his from a running position, ergo higher propensity to cause injury and lesser power needed to bring down your opponent. Also Ramos did it intentionally. He may not have known the severity of what he did, but he fully well knew he was doing it.
Thank your for this insight. Knowing nothing about judo, I did feel the play had a high risk of injury for salah, but more for broken arm that dislocated shoulder. Soccer people definitely don’t understand how difficult to resist being pulled forward by the arm, but we should know the irresistible torque of the rotating body (scissors tackle with twist). But Salah hooked his arm around ramos’, after Ramos had him over the shoulder, and that gave Ramos the traction without making the grab more obvious. I’m not excusing Ramos (who never met a foul he didn’t like), But from the refs view, it just looks like they are grappling each other and neither one is innocent. Salah is no newb and I’m sure he has grappled with the best of them but perhaps he hadn’t come across someone who was concerned with more than just slowing him down. Ramos’ history is damning and I’m sure he slept well last night. For Salah, I hope his healing is fast and complete.
This was not a judo match, it was a soccer game. The objectives of the two sports is not the same, so the fact that a very experienced soccer referee didn't consider this even a foul in a soccer game is not surprising. The move Ramos made may have been a judo move, even if it was not identical to the clips you posted, but when it is done in a soccer game, every trained soccer referee is qualified to judge if it is a foul or misconduct within the context of the sport being played.
Maybe I was unclear. I'm only saying that the referee may have insufficient knowledge as to the level of risk this type of foul causes. Its more dangerous than stamping on someone's leg or a studs up tackle, but looks far more innocous. A judo referee would know this. A soccer referee... not necessarily.
I will say there's a strong possibility someone will be posting in the "Best Story of the Week Thread" within the next week or two at least one example where they had a player commit an act like Benzema did and how they handled it.
I'll take that over having to post about some knucklehead trying to recreate Ramos's takedown of Salah.
From the touch line of a G19U game yesterday: “go get up on the keeper and try to kick the ball when she bounces it—that’s legal now.”
Guardiola got a two-match touchline ban, with one suspended, for being sent to the stands by Mateu Lahoz. http://www.espn.com/soccer/manchest...ardiola-handed-champions-league-touchline-ban
Liverpool goalkeeper Loris Karius suffered a concussion during his side's defeat to Real Madrid in the Champions League final. I really wish one of the officials had seen Ramos’ elbow. Such a dirty play. If I understand correctly, Ramos would retroactively be suspended had this occurred at the upcoming WC.