2017/18 Ritsu Doan @ FC Groningen (NED)

Discussion in 'Japanese Abroad' started by Dax, Jun 23, 2017.

  1. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan


    Comes with 1yr loan. Will be interesting to see if the club will pay the "top wage" rule after the loan.
    Best of luck
     
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  2. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Interesting!

    Looking forward to see how Ritsu's career will look like after this 1-year loan?
     
  3. One year loan with option to buy. He will be payed the minimum wage for non EU players under 21, so it will be a few years before he has to be payed the higher minimum wage for non EU players.
     
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  4. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Thanks for the correction, very interesting detail
     
  5. The real numbers are:

    In 2016 zijn deze minimum salarissen voor spelers buiten de EU:
    • Spelers van 18 en 19 jaar: 197.308 euro
    • Spelers van minimaal 20 jaar: 394.616 euro
    The minimum salaries for Non-EU players for 2016 were:
    players 18&19 years old 197 308 euros
    20 year and older 394 616.

    The calculations vary with each year as it is 1.5 times the average wage of the Eredivisie and the under 20 wage is half the 20 + wage.
     
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  6. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    #6 Dax, Jun 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
    well that's still incredibly high actually. Which makes me wonder if it applies to loans...
     
  7. I donot think the KNVB will allow a loophole through loans, but tbh I donot know.
     
  8. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    Now I'm reading that he will be earning 300k Euro per year and transfer fee around 1,5M. He wants to go to Russia it seems and regular playing time that he can get there was important when he decided for the move. And he wants to repeat Honda's stint in Holland.
     
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  9. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    For me Doan seems more interesting prospect than Honda when he moved to Europe.

    He is 2.5 years younger, go there in the off-season (he will have enough time to adapt to the team and atmosphere there) and he established himself in a better way at both NT age-groups and club level.

    So this year might be really crucial for him,and who know he might make it to Russia next summer.
     
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  10. [​IMG]
    © twitter.com/fcgroningen
    Ritsu Doan wil met Groningen de Champions League in

    Onder massale belangstelling werd vanmiddag het Japanse talent Ritsu Doan gepresenteerd bij FC Groningen. De 19-jarige aanvallende middenvelder, die onlangs drie keer scoorde op het WK onder 20 in Zuid-Korea, komt over van Gamba Osaka.

    Sander de Vries 29-06-17, 17:26
    FC Groningen huurt Doan voor een jaar en heeft een optie tot koop bedongen. ,,Een mooiere constructie is bijna niet denkbaar", zei algemeen directeur Hans Nijland. ,,Voordat je gaat trouwen, moet je toch eerst ook verloven?"

    Groot zijn de plannen die Doan heeft bij de subtopper. ,,Ik denk dat FC Groningen in de Europa League en Champions League kan spelen", zei Doan. ,,Ik ga mijn best doen dat het eerste jaar te realiseren. Ik heb gekozen voor Groningen omdat ze goede spelers hebben opgeleid tot wereldspelers, zoals Arjen Robben en Luis Suárez. Bovendien ben ik enthousiast geraakt door Nijland en Jeltema. Ze zijn vorige week helemaal naar Japan gevlogen voor me."

    Ik heb gekozen voor Groningen omdat ze goede spelers hebben opgeleid tot wereldspelers, zoals Arjen Robben en Luis Suárez

    Ritsu Doan
    Doan stond na afloop van het WK in Zuid-Korea in belangstelling van veel clubs, zei technisch manager Peter Jeltema. Vorig jaar werd zijn naam al genoemd bij PSV en Ajax. ,,Er was een korte flirt met PSV en ook Ajax heeft interesse getoond", zei Jeltema. ,,Het is fantastisch dat deze jongen voor Groningen heeft gekozen. Daar zijn wij ontzettend trots op. Als deze jongen bij ons kan laten zien wat hij heeft laten zien in Japan, dan hebben we een speciale speler in huis."

    Ritsu Doan wants to enter the Champions League with Groningen

    This afternoon, the Japanese talent Ritsu Doan was presented to FC Groningen with great interest. The 19-year-old attacking midfielder, who scored three times at the World Cup under 20 in South Korea, is from Gamba Osaka.

    Sander de Vries 29-06-17, 17:26
    FC Groningen hires Doan for one year and has negotiated a buy option. "A nicer construction is almost unthinkable," said general director Hans Nijland. "Before you get married shouldnot you first get engaged?"

    Big are the plans that Doan has at the subtopper. "I think FC Groningen can play in the Europa League and Champions League," said Doan. "I'm doing my best to realize it in the first year. I've chosen Groningen because they have developed good players into world players, such as Arjen Robben and Luis Suárez. In addition, I was excited by Nijland and Jeltema, who flew in to Japan last week. "

    Ritsu Doan
    Many clubs were interested in Doan after the World Cup in South Korea, said technical manager Peter Jeltema. Last year, his name was already mentioned at PSV and Ajax. "There was a short flirt of PSV and Ajax also showed interest," said Jeltema. "It's fantastict that this boy chose Groningen. We are very proud of this. If this boy can show us what he has shown in Japan, then we have a special player in our house. "

    "Ritsu Doan wants to enter the Champions League with Groningen"
    Okay, now Ritsu is being silly;)
     
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  11. nipponbasse83

    nipponbasse83 Member+

    Jun 17, 2007
    Ichikawa, Chiba, Japan
    Club:
    Consadole Sapporo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    I know there are a lot of reasons for Doan to make this move, like getting used to European football, start at a lower level, test himself in a league where they play a lot more physical football etc...

    But: I still don't see why he has to go to a club that is significantly weaker (and in almost all aspects smaller) than the one he already played for. In today's global football market, signing players directly from Asian or American clubs, without the clubs having to make a stop in a smaller European league first, has become more and more normal and shouldn't be as big as factor anymore.

    If we look at Japan's biggest players,how many actually took that route?

    A quick look at today's NT gives us these who started in a smaller league /club:
    Honda, Inui, Yoshida, Kubo,Kawashima, Asano

    While the following went directly to a big club or at least a club in a big league, and was a success:
    Kagawa, Kiyotake,Okazaki,Nagatomo, Sakai Hiroki, Sakai Gotoku , Osako

    And you can also add the likes of Hasebe, Nakamura, Takahara, Uchida, Muto to the 2nd list.

    For every success there are of course failures as well, and in the current NT we got Yamaguchi and Makino as 2 good examples.

    But in general, I dont think Japanese players, atleast not the big talents, should have to make a stop at a club like Groningen or VV Venlo anymore...
     
  12. Just a simple question: how many players in the category "Koeman brothers, Nuninga, Robben, Suarez, Virgil van Dijk, etc. " did his former club deliver at the world stage?
    Second: Doan just became 19, without baffling the world yet..
     
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  13. nipponbasse83

    nipponbasse83 Member+

    Jun 17, 2007
    Ichikawa, Chiba, Japan
    Club:
    Consadole Sapporo
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Thats not really answering any questions. Japan is still a relatively new football nation, so any comparison's like that is meaningless. When the Koeman-brothers made their breakthrough, Japan only had a semi-pro league, and their national team was a disgrace.

    And also, homegrown players are not a part of this discussion, so that leaves you only with Suarez, atleast in the list you provided. But does Groningen really deserve credit for him? Quite frankly it was Nacional that delivered him to the world stage, not Groningen.

    But for every Suarez, how many Alexander Sørloth's or Erik Nevland's have they "taken to new heights"? Meaning players they have brought in from abroad? Sørloth was also only 19 when he arrived, and considered one of the top 3 FW-talents in Norway, and look at where he is now. And Erik Nevland scored more goals per game in Holland than he did in any other league, including Norway and Sweden, which again underlines my comments about what kind of relatively small club he is going to.

    And Doan have already make tons of headlines across Asia, both with sublime performances in J.League, U-20 NT and Asian Champions League, which is probably a lot more than what any similar aged players at Groningen have done.

    I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad move, and as I explained in the beginning of my earlier post there are several good reasons for it, but I don't see why he couldnt just have stayed 1 year longer at Gamba, and then make a move to a bigger club/league directly instead. I hardly doubt the quality of the coaches, or the training facilities are any better at Groningen than at Gamba. Most likely it is the complete opposite.
     
  14. No, he was very rough in his quality of play when he came at Groningen. You could see he had the makings of a very good player, but was tactically and technically in the sense of contributing to the team not very good. He needed the step at FC Groningen, before he was ready for Ajax.
    If he was ready for the World stage, Ajax/Feyenoord/PSV would have bought him for the low sum FC Groningen could afford, like Ajax did with Sanchez and Onano last season. The fact that only Groningen wanted him is proof enough that Nacional didnot deliver him at the World stage. In fact Luis was a nobody in the Uruquayan forum. When I posted about his signing by FC Groningen, there was no reaction at all. In fact, he only was noticed after Ajax started to show interest in him.
    It isnot about the players, but about the environment, that gives the development to become what your potential is.
    Odegaard spent two seasons in the Real academy and was chased by the biggest clubs in the world. He was specifically sent out on loan to Heerenveen, but has failed to grab a place in the 1st eleven yet. So what do you make of Real's developing skills, when one of, not Norway's, but Europe's hottest prospects cannot get into the starting eleven of Heerenveen? The Dutch clubs overall have proven to be a hotbed for talents from all over the world to develop. It doesnot mean everybody is going to succeed. But the chances to do so are immensly bigger than in the EPL academies or clubs.

    Simple reason, foreign talents at FC Groningen are on the watch list of big club scouts from the moment they sign there. The chance of such a move is far better, given he lives up to his implied qualities, than at home.
     
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  15. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Hmm. I think this is a very interesting debate that doesn't really have a definite answers, because as nipponbasse said several players developed in both ways.
    In the end, the possibilities that "Doan makes it" don't really change imho.
    However, I think that it is absolutely undeniable that a good season in Groeningen is much more valuable to european scouts than a good season at Gamba.

    Well, I'm not really sure Groeningen is a significantly weaker club than Gamba at all but leaving that aside,that would've probably meant that Doan would have had to wait at least one or two more seasons though.

    I generally agree with you, especially with the emphasis on the big talents (and Doan is certainly one of them) and possibly excluding excessively big club moves (Usami to Bayern).
    But at the same time, you listed Yamaguchi and Makino but we can also add Otsu,Kakitani, Omae, Miyaichi, Usami(so far)
    On the other side you also have Minamino, Shibasaki, Morioka, Kobayashi, all playing and being standouts in their club.
    We'll see how it goes for Kamada (thankfully, I think Eintracht is generally a very good club) but, in general, I'd say, if a young player (<21) really wants to move, it's probably better to take this approach. If he's a great talent and has the willingness to wait, of course things can probably pan out as well with a move to a top 5 leagues club.
    That said:
    1) it's easier to get scouted from an european league
    2) the next clubs likely have to pay a better fee to get you, which raises the possibilities of getting at least a fair amount of playing time chances, or if you end up your contract you can leverage a much better wage than coming from Jleague
    3) if things don't pan out chances are that at least you still played soccer that season (Yamada, Tasaka, Ono, etc.)
    4) there is less pressure

    I actually do think that the quality of the coaches is better at Groeningen but aside from that, I agree that there isn't a specific reason as to why he couldn't have waited. However, I also don't think (for the reasons above) that the move is wrong

    This is also true. While the JLeague now has a very good exposure, the Eredivisie still remains a league much more in the spotlight
     
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  16. dlsn3y

    dlsn3y New Member

    May 23, 2016
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    If you don't take your chance early at times you may never get another opportunity. Look at Manabu Saito for example, had the chance to play abroad in Europe as a talent, and probably wont get that same opportunity again
     
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  17. Yup, even clubs like Groningen and Heracles. To illustrate that to the big surprise of German forum members a young German, Gosens, playing for Heracles all of a sudden was picked up by the number 4 of Italy, joining FC Groningen player Hateboer at Atalanta Bergamo. Nobody saw those moves to such a next seasons CL club as possible from either clubs. So it shows that top clubs are closely watching FC Groningen and actually signing players we really didnot think about.

    To make it clear, we didnot think of those two as big talents. So guess what will happen the moment they know a talked about talent pops up there!
     
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  18. GunnerTNB

    GunnerTNB Member+

    Apr 4, 2011
    São Paulo
    Club:
    Botafogo Rio Janeiro
    Scores again in the second pre-season match
    886243355968983040 is not a valid tweet id
     
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  19. Sunday 13th of Aug. 16:45 CEST
    [​IMG]FC Groningen - sc Heerenveen[​IMG]
    The Northern derby a battle between Japanese talents!
    It can become an interesting match as the Real Madrid talent Odegaard in the prep matches of Heerenveen has shown on the wing he really can play football, and with FC Groningen there is a highly regarded Mexican talent from Manchester City.
     
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  20. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Looking forward to it.
     
  21. This derby has seen alot of red cards, most red cards of any confrontation in the Eredivisie.
    Use google translate for a crude translation:
    FC Groningen - sc Heerenveen (zondag 16.45 uur)
    De ‘Derby van het Noorden’ was één keer eerder de seizoensopener van beide ploegen. Dit was op 26 augustus 1994, toen Heerenveen in eigen huis met 2-0 te sterk was voor FC Groningen.

    Scheidsrechter Pol van Boekel is gewaarschuwd. Dit decennium vielen er namelijk al zes directe rode kaarten in duels tussen Groningen en Heerenveen, meer dan in elke andere onderlinge ontmoeting op het hoogste niveau.

    2017 is nog niet het jaar van sc Heerenveen. De Friezen behaalden vorig seizoen in de tweede seizoenshelft slechts 14 punten. Alleen het rechtstreeks gedegradeerde Go Ahead Eagles (11 punten) deed het minder. Tijd voor een ommekeer in het nieuwe seizoen.

    [​IMG]
    Een rode kaart voor Jason Davidson (FC Groningen) tijdens FC Groningen - sc Heerenveen vorig seizoen op 15 september 2016. © Pro Shots
     
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  22. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Doan started and played around '64 minutes.
     
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  23. seolseol

    seolseol Member+

    Apr 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Stayed on the bench in the 3-1 loss against Ajax.
     
  24. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    fyi Doan is currently injured, but I don't think it's anything serious
     
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  25. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    He scored in today's cup match.
     
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