Gonzalez was most certainly "on the radar." He was a member of our CONCACAF U20 Championships team playing up a cycle. Seriously, this notion that Jonathan Gonzalez "came out of nowhere" and US scouts weren't paying attention to him is completely and totally false. He's been called up to USYNTs multiple times every year since 2012 when he was brought into a U14 camp. I know that doesn't fit the narrative................. Another player at that U14 camp in 2012? Well..................look at that. Weston McKennie. Also Pulisic, Haji Wright, Josh Perez, and others. https://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/us-under-14-bnt-meets-for-may-camp_aid24275 You do realize that this U17s record across all competitions this cycle is: 21 wins 1 draw 3 losses. Right? Not only have they been winning games, they've been demolishing people. They beat Brazil 4-0. They beat Portugal 7-1. They beat Turkey 5-1. The list goes on. There is a lot of talent in this group. A lot of talent. Will they win this World Cup title? I don't know. And in a sense it doesn't really matter. People need to step away from their cynicism and anger about the US program right now based on the USMNT's failure. There's a lot to be excited about at the U20 and U17 levels with the talent coming in waves.
Yeah, I said some of the same things about Zelalem. At first, I bought in due to the Arsenal hype, but after that, I didn't see it, didn't see such a great skill-set, thought he struggled to impact most games I watched.
Besides his lack of defense he had problems with pressure, sure he had moves but once the opponent caught on what they were, he didn't have the physical speed to get out of danger.
Zelalem just looks like an MLS ceiling type player to me. Not saying Zelalem will play in MLS, but that level of a league. Nothing wrong with that but that type of player isn't going to help the USMNT. Not his fault he was hyped at an early age.
I understand is a good team, I'm saying for them to spank a quality team like they did against Paraguay.
Hey everyone - change of subject a bit, but I didn't want to start a new thread. What does everyone here think about Ian Harkes, the season he's had with DC, and his prospects to develop into a pool player for the national team some day? He's still fairly young at 22 and in his first season as a professional, has started 22 games for DC United, and from the very limited amount of time I've watched him this season, he seems to be pretty smooth on the ball and with his passing. I've only seen him play a couple times this year, so am far from an expert on his game, but I'd love to hear what folks think about him and whether he may have a future with the national team in central midfield?
I think he's one of those players who's going to really suffer from the increased level in talent in the younger age groups. He's a fine player, but when you consider what we have coming from McKennie, Parks, Gonzalez, Adams, Durkin, etc, I think a player like Harkes who might've gotten a big chance to break in a number of years ago will get less of a chance with the NT. He could still have a NT future, I'm just not sure it'll be a big future.
Thanks for the reply. What's your take on his strengths/weaknesses as it relates to his international prospects?
I think his strengths are his play in possession, when his team has the ball. I know he didn't put up many goals or assists this season, but in college soccer he contributed more goals and assists. I think he has good attacking ability as a #8, can pick out a pass, smart player, very good technique, but I'm not sure he necessarily is a good defensive player or he covers the most ground, even if he has decent size. Then again, I can't say I've watched him play all too regularly, so I might be wrong.
Kids didn't play at their best and England is really good. England this past year U21 Euro Champions U20 World Cup Champions U19 Euro semifinalists (eliminated by Germany on penalties) U17 World Cup semifinalists..........at least. Only two nations made the quarterfinals of both the U17 and U20 World Cups. England...............and the United States. Nothing to sneeze at there. Its been a good summer and there are USMNT-level prospects in both groups (and a bunch of teens didn't go to the events like Pulisic, McKennie, Taitague, etc.). Our domestic development programs are improving year by year. The Development Academy is only 10 years old, and the lower age group levels are really still being built at some clubs. Sometimes I think folks have expectations that are really out of whack. Up until now the US has managed to develop talent DESPITE of their limited national-level development programs. We particularly got away with it at the CONCACAF level. A group of those U17s have real USMNT potential. There are a couple of "next Pulisic" candidates there. I'm a big fan of Sargent, Durkin, and Carleton (who didn't have a good game against England). I think Jesus Ferreira is of that caliber too, but he didn't get his citizenship in time to make this squad. The three domestic players in that group should get playing time next season (Durkin at DCU, Carleton at Atlanta, and Ferreira at FCD), and Sargent is on his way to Bremen. There are others I think have potential like Sands, Lindsey, Gloster, Weah, etc. as well. Its just hard to predict these things............................ Losses happen in sports. This group overall has had an outstanding cycle, and should be very proud of themselves.
My take in all of this is in these U-17/U20 tournaments the bulk of the players are from their domestic leagues, seldom we will see a 1st teamer player play in an U- tournaments, so we that in mind, we have a good bunch of young athletes, what we are mostly lacking is the training necessary to get us over the hump, we can't just do it with athletism. Take the Japan team, they are a small team but they know how to play as a team and gave England a run for their money, we instead are still coaching the same way as we did back in the 80s and it showed when we played an elite team. We are not going to progress as long as we continue to coach the same way. And by the way, the Japan team's coach is Japanese, so is not that they brought in a "foreign" coach to show them how to do it.
Good points - thanks. I think you're right that Harkes will face a bunch of emerging competition for a #8 role on the national team, with guys like Weston McKennie, Kellyn Acosta, Emerson Hyndman, Cristian Roldan, Gedion Zelalem and Chris Goslin, plus Sebastian Lletget and Darlington Nagbe if our next coach chooses to play either of those guys in the middle instead of on the wing. That said, Harkes appears to have all the tools required to become a consistently good MLS starter for the next decade, and I like his game based on what I've seen thus far.
Good luck to Mr. Harkes in all he does. But, I really hope the USMNT moves on from consistently good MLS starters.
That's all well and good, but if the USSF continues to hire incompetent coaches for the senior team, all that talent won't do much for the MNT. That's why stepping away from cynicism and anger regarding the federation is going to be a tall order for most of this forum.
There's plenty of blame to go around. The greatest USMNT coach can't do much if the talent pool isn't up to snuff. As Jose Mourinho put it, you can't make a great omelet with crappy eggs. Below is our roster for the 2012 U23 CONCACAF Championships. How many of these players got on the field for our recent WCQing games against Panama & T&T? These are players who should now be in their primes. So clearly there's been a talent development problem. Klinsmann talked about his concern for this "lost generation" of talent, and the talent gap has now reared its ugly head for the USMNT. [Click to expand.] Don't get me wrong. The USMNT should have qualified for the World Cup with our existing roster. Still, there are a lot of questions that should be asked about our talent and player development programs within the USSF and MLS. It should be noted that our current USMNT talent shortage is a reflection of our development programs 8-10 years ago. The USSF DA is only 10 years old. So what we should be hopefully be seeing right now is the fruits of those DA labors within our U20 and U18 teams. And it should be repeated that only two nations made the quarterfinals of both the U17 and U20 World Cups. The United STates is one of them. And that's without teens like Pulisic, McKennie, Taitague, Wright, Perez, Akale, and company taking part. Most avid youth watchers would argue that after 10 years of our DA, the depth of our youth talent is greater than it has ever been. The question is whether the talent level is greater than its ever been. Was Pulisic an isolated case (possibly due to his father's work) or is there about to be a wave of talent at that level? We shall see......................but Weston McKennie's rapid rise should give us hope. He was starting Bundesliga games within a calendar year of leaving FCD's academy program. So Schalke took an MLS product, rapidly polished it, and now he's already playing at an adult professional level. For an MLS example of our development programs, look no further than Tyler Adams. He was really, really good last night for NYRB as an 18 year old in a playoff game. He should rapidly be introduced to the USMNT. By the way, he's so young that he's eligible for our NEXT U20 team. For MLS the problem is now not just building their academy programs, but the bridge to their first teams so that youngsters like Carleton and Paxton Pomykol have a place to play in between the U18 level and the first team. Some clubs are doing well at this (like say NYRB), and some are doing poorly (like FCD).
Nice write up. Let me go over the list. Hamid - He was always a good keeper but not an exceptional, I always thought he gets rattled from time to time. He now feels mentally strong enough to go abroad. He is still a work in progress. Opera - Excellent physical specimen for a CB. Not the smartest CB from MLS but good enough. His career got derailed because of injuries. Sarkodie, Kitchen, Valentin, Jeffrey, Okugo, Taylor, Williams, Stephen, Johnson - These players where just your average MLSer, none possessed the skills to be anything beyond MLS caliber. Diskerud - He never possessed special physical skills, his technical skills where solid but his physical limitation at the international level was exposed enough for JK to lose faith in him. Corona - Just like Diskerud was given a chance to show what he has but didn't do enough to pull himself away from the average player pack. Boyd, Gyau - Promising young players at one point but fell to the injury bug at the wrong time of their career. Bunbury - Showed very little when called up, physically he was there, I thought his future was as a right winger when his role was more simplified. Injury also derailed his advancement. Villafana - He plays at a position of need but at his best, he is just a bit below average for the international game. Shea - Here your perfect example of a player getting many chances to prove himself but didn't take advantage of them. He doesn't seem to be smart enough to be anything but an average MLS. He had the physical tools, it's just he didn't have the cerebral part to take the next step. Sometimes, not many, but an average player that may have what it takes to break into the elite level may never get a chance because they didn't have someone with clout to get their name above the pack, the early elite players don't have that problem but the late bloomers do. McKennie is a perfect example of a player that didn't get much attention at the youth level, sure he made the teams but wasn't regarded as special until he went abroad and showed what he can do against better competition.
Just to note, of those players from 2012, the following players transferred to or started in Europe from that squad: Europe: Kitchen (age 24 to SPL), Valentin (age 21 to Norway) , Jeffrey (Belgium at 18 and Mainz at age 20), Adu (Benfica at 18), Diskerud (Staebek at age 15), Agudelo (Stoke at 21), Shea (Stoke at 22), Gyau (Hoffenheim at 17), Boyd (Hertha at 18), Taylor (Portugal at age 20), and Stephens (Staebek at age 24). I guess you can add Hamid now, but the others all went at age 24 or earlier. The following players started in or transferred to Mexico: Corona and Villafana
It should be noted that on U17 or U20 teams we anticipate only a fraction of those players ending up as elite adult professionals. If we get 5 future USMNTers from any U17 team, then we should be thrilled. [Like say the 1999 team] And we should hope for a few more than that on U20 teams. A U17 World Cup team is one coach's selection of players from a two-year sliver of our player pool. But a U23 team, which is a much wider pool of players hopefully playing professionally.......................should have many future USMNT starters on it. A poor U23 team, which we've had in the last two Olympic cycles, is a much better barometer of future success than U17 or U20 teams. [By the way, a bunch of guys were either not released, injured, or not selected for that 2012 U23 Olympic team that ended up being USMNT players. Just like we couldn't get Yedlin or Brooks for the doomed 2016 effort.]
It should be noted that the England team that beat us stomped Brazil yesterday. I wouldn't judge our programs based on that game. Anyway...................ask and you shall receive. https://www.si.com/soccer/2017/10/26/tom-byer-us-soccer-pilot-program-seattle-sounders-japan-china
I'd like to point out that although we were one of two teams made the quarterfinals, we pretty much lost to who we should have lost to, and we definitely were not the 2nd best youth national setup this year. Do I think anybody thinks that? No, but I feel like if an uninformed reader read that stat, that would be the conclusion he would form. Instead, my conclusion is that we're beginning to steadily produce the talent of a 2nd tier national team. We're ironing out the bad generations, and we're solidifying our country as a top 20 national team behind the traditional powers of Europe and South America.
The WC began in 1930 by next year there will be 21 instances of the tournament played. Only 8 different teams have won it. The article is partially right. There is more than 3 teams that have won it more than once. Brazil 5 Germany 4 Italy 4 Argentia 2 Uruguay 2 England 1 France 1 Spain 1 So, if you want to emulate a winning formula then look at Brazil, Germany, and Italy for your answer, the interesting part is all three play the game differently.