2016 Roster Thread

Not exactly a shocker. Since camp is a week away, any international would have already had to have been signed.

People here complain when he doesn't say anything and, then, when he does, they go to town on it.

I understand that Burns has made his bed, so he's got to lie in it, but ...

 

Considering we were done with the playoffs before Halloween, it's not like he had a long run to MLS Cup to prevent him from getting on this task to make sure we had a key player or two ready to go...

People are making a big deal about the Jones situation, where he is going to miss the first 6 games of the season (for whoever he plays for). How much ya wanna bet that in the event we sign a "major" player from outside the league, he will also miss the first 6 games of the year? It's a fair point with Jones, especially when you divide the amount of his contract by the games he'll actually play, but why isn't the FO measured by the same yardstick? Especially if we miss the playoffs (or like 2015, second place) by a couple of points, and major player X could have made the difference.

And your point is?

 

Completely agree. How can you worry about games Jones is guaranteed to miss and not have the same concern about any other big salary player? The small difference is that Jones will be paid for those first six games. There is also a chance that a new player could be paid for games that he is not ready for based on when he signs and during that time the team could drop points that might make a difference later. It all depends on the timing and that is why getting deals done and getting guys in camp on time should be important.

If the big salary player is signed after the season starts, money is saved since he is not paid for those games, but points have been lost.

Suppose the Revs sign a guy to a $1M deal the day before the season and he misses 4 games or so getting integrated to the team, getting fit, getting ITC, getting adjusted to a new country, etc? That seems like an avoidable situation where the FO has cost the team points and money.

 

What do you think the Revs players think about the roster situation? I have to imagine they understand how important Jones is and realize that more folks have left the team then been added. I wonder if they believe that good new players are coming, if they hear any internal rumors, if they are optimistic, or if they just put their heads down and focus on what they can control? What is the pulse in the room?

 

The Revs have been in this league for 21 years with that being said you think we would have some long standing partners in this time.

Looking at the roster we have of underrated squad at this point a new RB and CB is a must

 

I actually find the yearly mega-pile of excuses posted here on these boards for inadequate/too few signings more depressing than the actual non-signings themselves.

I don't believe that professional sports history agrees with you over the last 15 years (or much much more probably). Even if modest improvements are made teams move on because those improvements aren't fast enough or they want to move in another direction. And they do it even for guys with BIG contracts.

To the best of our knowledge, Burns is not on a huge contract. It won't be expensive to replace him AND, sorry, but it won't be (shouldn't be) hard to find someone with similar skills or better who will also take a similar sized contract. I don't think we've seen any evidence that Burns is on a progression path to becoming some world beater of a GM even by MLS 1.0 or 2.0 standards let alone current standards. Why not try something different? IMHO the REVs should be in business to win games and titles not to spend decades to train ex-NATs to be merely adequate, at best, GMs.

 

If we are lucky the pulse points to "Almost Dead". That's infinitely better than "Dead"....

 

Then I don't see why you were complaining about the comment in the first place. And your not liking "management by punishment" must be one of the main reason you're a defender of the Revs management, who follow your philosophy and don't seem to care one way or another about putting the best team possible on the pitch.

 

As we head into the 2016 season, the Revs have once again done nothing but attend the MLS Draft and pick up a few new players. Meanwhile, we have only made an insulting offer to Jones and not resigned a few marginal players. More have gone than have come. We have extended some of the better players contracts but that is not addressing the fact that we are not as strong now as we were last year and all we have to hang our hat on is the usual, vague hints that something bigger is coming. That usually means exactly nothing will happen. These once lively boards are on life support and it's no wonder. There is nothing to talk about. The Revs have succeeded in killing the interest of many posters here. Does it matter? Not to the front office. The attendance is steady and even growing. So why change anything and why spend a lot of money if it's not going to translate to more people buying their overpriced beer and stuff from the various stands. I envy the fans from places like Portland that have something to be excited about and an organization that creates a fun atmosphere for fans to go to. We could have that here if the Krafts gave a damn. They don't. How about LA? Making major moves all the time and signing even more name players if they can close the Ashley Cole deal. We got Jones only because of a lucky coin flip and when it came time to resign him, knowing that he brings a lot to the organization, Mr. Cheap comes back and we let him walk. All we ever get is bull&*^% about new stadiums (never gonna happen) and vague hints of new signings that never happen.

I have been following this team since they started and it has always been a frustrating experience. The last few years I'm lucky to get to a game, though I do watch all on TV. I see other teams building up and trying to make moves to improve their product. I see the the Revs do nothing... In fact, I think the Revs have got worse. Other teams are doing things which makes the Revs inaction make them look worse. I thought that maybe with the signing of Jones, things had changed but to quote the Who.... "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." Once again I think that applies. The Jones signing was just something totally out of character and now it's gone. Back the the same old same old. We can never move forward with the Krafts as owners and a front office that has to be carrying out their business plan.

 

It does not matter who is in charge wheter Burns or not

Kraft does not care about the Revs its clear to see.

The fact that they wont even go after Free Agents due to salary is ridulous

Then you hear how these new draft pics are gonna be likely starters for the Revs its appaling not saying these picks are bad but to just throw them into the fold

I have not attended a game since 2012 due to the fact this organization doesnt care

But they care enough to charge you an arm and a leg for a damn beer

 

There are lots of things we could be talking about despite the lack of action on signings. But the few people left posting are obsessed with the inaction on roster building, and what else is there to say about that? I hope that once camp opens there will be things to talk about -- players and games -- and that these boards will be fun to read again.

Meanwhile, in my fantasy world, the talk around the hot stove during the off season includes:

* discussion of reasons (other than laziness, greed, incompetence) why the team might make so few roster moves

* analysis of how winning teams are built in MLS, now and in the past. Is there a pattern to how successful teams are built, in terms of use of different player acquisition methods? has the pattern changed over time? Are USOC winners and supporters shield winners and MLS cup winners built in different ways?

* what is the status of the competition? Yes, I know everyone else is signing players and Revs aren't. Beyond that, what are the strengths and weakness of other teams, in conference and out. I don't follow soccer closely enough to know how other teams are shaping up, and I wish some of the guys here who do would share their assessment of what is happening with other MLS teams.

* Revs history -- I didn't follow the team closely in the early years -- during the slow off season it would be nice to hear from people who were there and who remember the early teams. Stories of the early days would be appreciated Also analysis. How much has the league changed? How did the players then compare with the players now?

* soccer literature -- occasionally in the past people posted about the books and articles they have been reading. There's a huge, varied, and interesting literature to discuss. How much have the quants taken on soccer, and how much can numbers ever tell us about the game? What light does quantitative analysis shed on the current Revs?

There are lots of other topics that would be interesting to hear discussed, but the board has devolved into a contest to see who's best at insulting Burns and Kraft. It's like watching the Republican debate only instead of Obama and Clinton the punching bag is Burns or Kraft.

 

AMEN I suggest we call a moratorium on the bitching and moaning and spend a little time talking about soccer topics other than the failure of the Kraft organization as it relates to the Revs

 

Reasonable enough.....except for one small, itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny, mote of a detail........ this is the thread for the Rev's Roster.
So, if we want to talk about soccer topics other than the failure of the Kraft organization as it relates to the Revs, it's going to be hard to do that on a thread dedicated to an area where the failure of the Kraft organization as it relates to the Revs has everything to do with it.....
Maybe we should just focus on how amazing that Gerrard-Lawrentowicz dynamo is going to be.....

 

Do you think it's possible to talk about the roster without repeating the obvious and just generally using the venue to bitch and moan ?

 

Soccer Doc, do you think it is possible to talk about a roster which is nigh indistinguishable in its significant players from last year's, with the obvious exception of the loss of Jermaine Jones, and say anything other than what was said last year, or has been said in the interregnum --ad nauseam? Nothing is happening with the Revs, at least nothing positive, and that Nothing is the great big Something we are faced with.

That said, we could always turn this thread into the Imaginarium of Dr. Pangloss.....hmmmm...let's seee.......
"Candide, this is The Best of All Possible Worlds. Yes? And in the Best of All Possible Worlds Kraft Inc. has secretly sold the Revs to Big Russian Oligarch. The BRO loves his soccer, and loves his Revolution, and uses all methods and monies to have what he loves. So, in this Best of All Possible Worlds, Dear BRO, are we going to get Cristiano or Lionel? Both? Ay, this is the Best of All Possible Worlds! And Tim Howard for Goalkeeper? I Love You, Dear BRO."

Yes, I see it, Soccer Doc. To hell with bitching and moaning when happiness is but a sweet delusion away....

 

Point taken, but I give KG a ton of credit for providing several interesting diversions. He's right. There are only so many times one can make the points that we are immobilized, wedged in the door to MLS 3.0 between Can't and Won't.

Maybe the mods can put these ideas in another thread?

 

How about the Revolution give us sufficient reason to stop complaining? Their front office inaction and bumbling are easily as repetitive.

That said, complaints (or any post at all) seem to continue to decrease on these boards.

 

Thanks for the thread thought. Sometimes stepping back is needed - we are sucked into the black hole and we all desperately want some way to escape. I will take a quick stab here - but others are right that we need to take some out of this thread - this is the roster thread and, frankly there is not much to talk about so in reality, this thread should be getting buried for now.

Again, outside of the mechanisms that the league provides that "force" a player to go somewhere, a good or great player has a direct say where they want to go - it is a players market to choose. They look at:

• Owner committed to doing everything possible to make their club the best - enough said
• Club history in previous championships/campaigns and the players they signed to try and get there
• Club ambitions and atmosphere that the club is willing to help them advance their career if it comes up - Revs have a negative stigma here
• The coach and what he/she could teach them to make them better (selected to nats, awards, team trophies, etc) - Heaps has been shown to be a decent MLS coach, but with quite a few flaws that were exposed this year especially
• The existing players on the team - good players want to play with good players. Watching Jones walk I am sure will be noticed by top good players.
• Salary and contracts - maybe Revs are actually too savvy for their own good here?
• Stadium and facilities
• Etc

Revs are falling down in ALL of these. I am sure the Revs are asking a lot of very good players and those players are simply passing on the Revs.

See above - MLS 3.0 says you gotta spend some $ somewhere - either transfer, loan, DP contract. Other teams are doing it. Even if they don't win MLS Cup, does not mean it was a bad strategy. Doing none of these is hoping for lightning in a bottle. Scary if that is your only plan.

And we don't have to be signing old Lampards and Ashley Coles - but sh*t - those guys have experience and leadership that NONE of the Revs posses, including Heaps. That is why Jones impact was so drastic (IMO). So you have to be smart and bring in the right guys with some sort of scouting and knowing when players are on a free or when it still might be worth it to pay to get them (Jones, Drogba - even if for 1/2 season, Villa, Keane, Valeri, Kaka, etc) - ie, Dallas, Portland, Red Bulls. Not just for diamonds in the rough either, those are okay as an additional scouting exercise. Plus cultivate your own guys. The Homegrown route is growing and growing. I find those clubs signing homegrowns at a huge advantage(MLS3.0) to filling your roster by drafting someone from somewhere else in the country that has no connection to your club(MLS 1.0) unless you have scouted them and know them to be way better.(MLS 3.0)

Definitely agree - Revs history threads might be good.

Like I mentioned I read Das Reboot and so did Jon, so maybe a book or youtube link thread - although I though we had one and it is buried.

I am thinking of a Sirius XM thread - there are a ton of shows that are chockfull off good info for MLS or US Nats related - even if no direct Revs news

 

Thanks. I'd find a Sirius XM thread interesting, and I remember and enjoyed the old soccer literature thread.

 

I really wish we could kick around the topic of what the Revs' plan seem to be and whether it's a good one, but we've got a big ball of nothing on our hands. The roster is painfully and unacceptably thin. There's some USL trialists and some draft picks, but that's backfill.

There's any number of ways to build a championship contender from the base of this roster. I wish I could say the Revs were attempting to do that.

 

We like bitching and moaning. It's cathartic.

 

I can assure you that a small amount of dumping of frustration goes a long way in relieving tension but staying mired in a negative mindset characterized by constant bitching and moaning can result in significant illness. It isn't cathartic; it's dangerous. Fact