2015 Gold Cup (R)

Discussion in 'Gold Cup' started by Sebsasour, Aug 11, 2014.

  1. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Sorry for the double post - just saw this.

    Are you criticizing for the sake of doing so? Anyone can criticize and I am not slamming your right to do so. I am simply point out there amid your criticism there is a valid explanation for the decision taken. I am not asking you to agree with me or stop voicing your opinion but why criticize an action that acutally makes sense.

    Now, if I may be so bold, criticize the bastards for not having better referres, or for siphoning off money for themselves or better yet question whether the money is going where it is supposed to be going. Is Anguilla getting a piece so that their federation can maintain a field for the boys and girls? Is El Salvador getting their fair share so they can field a women's team? Etc etc

    Question where the money is going and criticize them for that; for not being transparent.

    But the criticism of a lucrative money making venture that benefits us all, legally is............ well ................ odd.
     
  2. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    See this is the problem you are making claims that aren't true and then claiming this makes sense. Anguilla doesn't get gold cup money because they didn't participate
     
  3. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I just picked two countries at random from the region. Surely you can see the point i am trying to make??

    To answer your questions above I dont know on both. Educate me if you do know.
     
  4. MK3owner

    MK3owner Member

    Jul 26, 2010
    Kissimmee FL.
    Club:
    Deportivo Toluca FC
    Country:
    Mexico
    I never said that. See you are putting words in my mouth again. I have always agreed that the Gold cup in the US makes the most money. Unless you are directly profiting from that personally than IDK how you can come and justify this farce of a Confederation. You insist, that a Gold cup not in the US will be unprofitable. And that is purely an assumption by you. Less profit=/= unprofitable, if you cant grasp that simple concept, then you're a lost cause.

    Less money for who? Do you have a breakdown of where the money goes? Yes there will be less money, but im willing to bet that extra money doesnt benefit anyone other than individual bank accounts. And again why is this such an issue to you? Are you on CCAF's payroll?

    Of course thats why its not moving, that wont stop me or anyone else from criticizing them. Which seems to offend you. Yes it's common sense that the US Gold cup generates the most cash, and again, I have never denied it. If you think I have then I dare you to show me the post where I did. And again for the millionth time, why is it that every other Confederation does? Why isnt the Asian cup only held in Japan or S Korea, why isnt the African cup only held in S Africa? Why isnt the Copa America only held in Brazil? Why isnt the Euro only held in Germany or England? Why is it possible for those confeds to take a financial hit, and not CCAF?

    Keyword "if" thats what almost your entire argument is based on "ifs"

    And how do you know a Gold cup in the US would not offset it? You dont you are talking out your ass again. How can you make an assumption and then follow with such a matter if fact statement like that. Again unless you have a crystal ball, you dont know that.
     
    Pønch repped this.
  5. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    There is the problem you have made a lot of claims but it doesn't really seem like you know the background to them. There is no soccer program running off the profits at the gold cup. I am sure Haiti benefits from the few thousand dollars they get but no way is that running the program despite that claim being made repeatedly here now.

    The TV money is hard to get exact figures on. But we know what the biggest contract is for Webb signed that with Univision for $185 million. There are other TV contracts signed in Mexico Canada as well as Fox Sports on top of sponsorship money. The gold cup is a profitable tournament and would be so outside of the USA to claim otherwise is due to a lack knowledge or just straight out lying
     
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  6. MK3owner

    MK3owner Member

    Jul 26, 2010
    Kissimmee FL.
    Club:
    Deportivo Toluca FC
    Country:
    Mexico
    Do you have problems with reading comprehension? How is criticizing CCAF for not moving the cup, and letting another team have homefield advantage cup after cup not a valid reason?

    CCAF filling its coffers, is your explanation I have already heard you. If you think criticizing CCAF for that is unreasonable then there is no point in arguing with you.

    Gold cup isnt a charity.

    We do.

    It benefits us all huh, It doesnt benefit the millions of fans that live outside of the US, it doesnt benefit any of the participants, other than the US, because they can never have homefield advantage. Unless by all you mean the CCAF bigshots, and the top dogs of the federations.
     
  7. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
  8. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    2/3 of the gc money went to bribes. If they cut back some they could host this outside the USA no problem. Obviously the traffic money will have to be renegotiated but that's well over $200 million in TV and sponsorship money alone
     
    nfiniti repped this.
  9. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Cool it with the insults. Read what I wrote. I said there is (I believe there is, I am still digesting smallins post) a valid reason to keep it in the US.

    I never said your reason for not rotating was not valid. As I tried saying earlier I have no problems with your criticisms. But you are criticizing something that has a valid reason to it. Like I said a better point of contention might be why is the money not flowing all around instead of into someones pockets.

    Let me try another approach. Making money on the GC should be somewhere on the priority list. I think you would agree as you said it is not a charity. It is the use of the money that I would join in with you on criticizing. And criticizing the use of the funds in NOT unreasonable. In fact there should be more transparency for the funds.

    I think making money in this case beats the fairness issue of rotating (I wont cloud the argument with my views on that). Make money - use it wisely and fairly - the region benefits. For me, step 2 is where we should focus our efforts as a region, not figuring out how to get someone else to host.
     
  10. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    The previous post from this article
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2015/07/27/concacaf-gold-cup-2015-by-the-numbers/

    MK3 logc: But he has no proof of match fixing so he must be lying, despite all the dots being there, waiting to be connected. And that apology never lays out the calls in question. And in case you claim I am putting words in your mouth.

    Was your response to PSD quoting the CCAF apology as proof the ref's red card and PKs affected the outcome
     
  11. JRB92

    JRB92 Member+

    Sep 23, 2009
    Wow you guys are still crying
     
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  12. MK3owner

    MK3owner Member

    Jul 26, 2010
    Kissimmee FL.
    Club:
    Deportivo Toluca FC
    Country:
    Mexico
    You are.
    Wrong calls dont equal match fixing, genius.
     
  13. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    If they host it outside the US and make less money from lower attendance or even good attendance but the currency conversion, mean you can't ask 80 USD for some seats you have to ask for 80 in the local currency which converted means you are only making 40-60 USD on that ticket, that means you walk away with less money. So you walk away with say 20 percent less for holding 2017 in Mexico, that mean that 2019 in the USA has to make 20 percent more to make up for the loss and there is no guarantee that it will. So knowing you are dealing with a bunch of WIFM guys, what makes you think they will go with the idea. Also once outside of Mexico the stadium size will be a real issue, and maybe in Mexico, not sure how many 50 and 60K plus stadiums they have.
     
  14. JRB92

    JRB92 Member+

    Sep 23, 2009




    Look at the clear evidence of match fixing

    Despicable
     
    ...In my defense and MK3owner repped this.
  15. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    Ok so all the dots are there but you won't connect them. Got it.

    http://www.si.com/more-sports/2011/12/08/concacaf-matchfixing

    Back in 2011 there was talk of match-fixing.

    Your like a kid that doesn't want to admit there is no Santa Claus because it will destroy their view of the world. So keep telling yourself that the calls they mentioned weren't the Red Card and PK because they weren't named. Mexico deserved those calls, there were bad calls all tourney and no the Red Card and PK calls were not more egregious.

    You want to deny there is match-fixing but be upset CCAF are crooks and they won't stop eating at the trough long enough to move the GC around. Do you hear yourself!?!?
     
  16. MK3owner

    MK3owner Member

    Jul 26, 2010
    Kissimmee FL.
    Club:
    Deportivo Toluca FC
    Country:
    Mexico
    Connect them for me then, Sherlock Holmes.
     
  17. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    Read my updated response MK!

    But to humor you.

    1) There are controversial calls in a big match
    2) CCAF comes out and say there was human error involved in the calls in the controversial match and it effected the outcome

    So the ref ruined the game and his calls help Mexico. Now that would be one off, if not for previous allegations of match fixing and proof of corruption. As you stated The USA DOJ doesn't arrest people for fun. We also know that the GC is hosted in the USA because it makes the most money for these corrupt officials.

    So corrupt people financially benefit from a Mexico win. How do they do so, well OMG, there is now a very lucrative playoff at 92,542 seat stadium that will be filled fans and will need to be televised as it will be watch by fans on both sides of the border.

    It is not as plain day and night but it is more clear than mud, ffs.
     
  18. MK3owner

    MK3owner Member

    Jul 26, 2010
    Kissimmee FL.
    Club:
    Deportivo Toluca FC
    Country:
    Mexico
    1)Yes but before you wrote that you asked if I was criticizing for the sake of criticizing. Hence my question.

    2)Why is that reason only valid in CCAF and not in the rest of the world?

    3) Why not both?

    4)And? I never said it shouldnt. Again, you guys seem to be under the assumption that a Gold cup not in the US is bound to be a financial disaster, with no basis. Why Is it that the rest of the world is able to Move their cups but not CCAF?

    5)This only makes sense under the, baseless, assumption that a Gold cup not in the US will lose money, or be unprofitable.

    6)Why not both?


    1) This does not equate to match fixing.

    2)keyword - allegations.

    3)They weren't arrested for match fixing

    4)Im glad you finally admit this.

    5)Yes, thats why Mexico was in the last cup final too.

    6)Yes? its not plain a all.
     
  19. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    If you think I am one of these USA guys that is gonna deny that match fixing has taken place to benefit the USA then, I am sorry son, your sadly mistaken.
     
  20. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    1) You highlight one without the whole argument. You have to be kidding me. Of course bad calls in a vacuum only mean they are bad calls. What kind of knucklehead are you.

    2) So people suspected of taking bribes for hosting a match among other things are above reproach and draw the line at match fixing, that makes sense.

    3) See 2!!

    4) We have all said it makes the most money that is why they won't move it. As I said before
    If they host it outside the US and make less money from lower attendance or even good attendance but the currency conversion, mean you can't ask 80 USD for some seats you have to ask for 80 in the local currency which converted means you are only making 40-60 USD on that ticket, that means you walk away with less money. So you walk away with say 20 percent less for holding 2017 in Mexico, that mean that 2019 in the USA has to make 20 percent more to make up for the loss and there is no guarantee that it will. So knowing you are dealing with a bunch of WIFM guys, what makes you think they will go with the idea. Also once outside of Mexico the stadium size will be a real issue, and maybe in Mexico, not sure how many 50 and 60K plus stadiums they have.

    5) Mexico wasn't in the previous final and the USA wasn't in this, setting up the more lucrative playoff. The additional game and profits of the playoff is the money maker. The finals were already sold out but the extra money of a playoff is just that extra money. I truly hope you are being deliberately obtuse because I can't fathom idiocy of this nature.

    6) It wouldn't be to you. I assume you are surprised when the good guys win in a movie too.
     
  21. MK3owner

    MK3owner Member

    Jul 26, 2010
    Kissimmee FL.
    Club:
    Deportivo Toluca FC
    Country:
    Mexico
    Did you read the article you posted? That was match fixing done by the some of the players.
    http://www.espnfc.us/el-salvador/story/2369066/el-salvador-players-acquitted-in-match-fixing-case
    That wasnt match fixing done by CCAF. Hence why no team was punished.

    Yes I know you hate it when I criticize CCAF's decision to continuously host the gold cup in the US.

    And you keep telling yourself they were.

    Then why the drama with you.

    And why is that not possible? Why cant I have two different views, on two different matters? Why are ou so upset when someone disagrees with you?
     
  22. MK3owner

    MK3owner Member

    Jul 26, 2010
    Kissimmee FL.
    Club:
    Deportivo Toluca FC
    Country:
    Mexico
    1) Um, thats because you are trying to bridge two things that you have no proof are related. Smarty pants

    2) Do you have proof there was match fixing?

    3) see two

    4)Again you are making up numbers.

    5)Oh so it was all about the playoff. You cracked the case Nancy Drew.
    Join the club.

    6)And it isnt to you either LOL read what you wrote
     
  23. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    To say CCAF is corrupt and that is why they host the GC in America is fine, I don't disagree. But then I say thier corruption also extends to match fixing and you rush to their defense, demanding definitive proof is mind-boogling. If someone is capable of a violent crime like armed robbery, why is the idea of murder seem beyond them. You are dealing with unscrupulous individuals so what makes you think they draw the line at match fixing.

    If my theory that match fixing can't be proven, your theory that the GC could be just as profitable in Mexico can't be proven either.
     
  24. MK3owner

    MK3owner Member

    Jul 26, 2010
    Kissimmee FL.
    Club:
    Deportivo Toluca FC
    Country:
    Mexico
    Well, in that picture you posted it clearly states that, according to the FBI "bribes with CCAF gold cup in the US amounted to 2/3's of costs of staging the tournament". When the FBI comes out and says that CCAF fixed the tourney for the sole reason of profit, or you show some proof, then I will concede my point.

    I never said CCAF was above match fixing, I said that there is no proof that there was a fix in during the Gold cup. Just like if a supect in a murder case has a violent past, that doesnt mean he is guilty. Its not a hard concept to grasp.
     
    JJV1994 repped this.
  25. Pønch

    Pønch Saprissista

    Aug 23, 2006
    Donde siempre
    Link?

    People keep throwing this "GC money funds the federations" assertion with absolutely no backup for it.
     
    MK3owner, nfiniti and slaminsams repped this.

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