2014 FIFA World Cup qualifying III [R]

This is becoming a really repetitive and stupid debate.

NEEEXT...

 

dude.. wasnt it you that was telling me iraq is just as good as Iran in asia?

 

I'm glad after months of off-topic rambling about '2014 World Cup Qualification' (whatever that is) we have returned to the true topic:

Iran: Best Team in Asia or Bestest Team in Asia?

 

Did you just pull that out of your behind? Or do you have comprehension problems too? Who here has said Iran is the "best" in Asia? Iran may have the best form of the top Asian teams at the moment, but Iran's still 4th in Asia, nothing has changed in that department yet.

The problem arises when you have trolls from various currently-insignificant footballing nations who refuse to even acknowledge that simple obvious fact, and pretend like Iran is on the same level as Saudi Arabia or Iraq, and go as far as making ridiculous arguments like beating Bahrain, the team with the 5th best WCQ record in Asia, by 6 goals is not a "big deal" when their own teams have been owned by the same Bahrain very recently.

 

Just because we disagree on the merit of a single victory over Bahrain does not mean we are trolls or are trying to belittle Iran.

Yes, a 6-0 victory over ANY team at this stage of qualification is a great feat

No one said it explicitly. But you were certainly implying it.

If you're the 4th ranked team in Asia, and Asia has 4 qualifying spots (.5 doesn't matter if we're going against South American sides) wouldn't that mean you're on the edge of qualification?

Again same deal, if you're gonna say you'll easily qualify, then you have to admit to at least being top 2.

 

Not necessarily. Right now, let's assume four tiers in Asian football.

The first tier is South Korea, Japan and Australia.

Iran is right below the first tier currently.

However I disagree with Mani that Bahrain is the fifth best team in Asia currently ( I believe FIFA rankings is that Bahrain is 11th in Asia).

But regardless of that, I think Iran is SIGNIFICANTLY better than any of the second tier nations in current form and assuming that only 4 nations from Asia go (since the .5 spot plays against SA), I think South Korea, Japan, Australia and Iran will be the countries that go to Brazil from Asia.

 

Why do you guys care though?

If they're trolls is it worth putting out 300-page manifestos on how you're pretty positive about the way your team is going, getting into these inane, stat-torturing wrangles about who beat whom 1, 3, 7, 10 years ago and berating people who don't think this data proves your team is going to go on to the World Cup?

I don't want to point the finger solely at you guys, because we're all guilty of this at times, but West Asian sides more than most seem obsessed with trying to statistically prove they're awesome when, fundamentally, past results aren't indicative of future performance and the only talking that matters is done on the pitch.

 

Einstein, learn to read instead of throwing up on the cyber space.

The whole arguement began when a couple of members here stated that Kuwait has been better than Bahrain because they won a couple of useless, unsanctioned, nobody knows wtf they are tournaments. Mani is simply arguing that the WC qualifiers are a better indication then the stupid Persian Gulf Cup.

now either take a side in this debate or take a hike. Another option is to start a debate about smtg else. Telling people to shut up is pretty ********ing retarded.

 

Be nice Nimaa. He never told anyone to shut up but you have called him retarded.

 

Weird, I thought he was saying:

Which is silly. Past results don't override present form.

You yourself were telling me Bahrain were nothing special when the draw was announced, and you were right, it turns out jailing, banning and torturing key players is not a pathway to success.

But now apparently this victory means Iran is easily going to make the top four. Your guys could do it but it won't because they beat 10-man Bahrain 6-0 at home. I personally think Iran's chances are quite good but the proof will be in round four.

 

I never implied Iran is the best team in Asia. Iran will easily qualify though , so will Australia, Japan and Korea. The gap between Iran and the top three is getting smaller, while the gap between Australia-Japan-Korea + Iran and the rest of the crowd is widening, which should mean easy qualification for all four teams.

Mark my words, Saudi Arabia will not make it to the 2014 World Cup, I'll take ANY bet you offer on this issue. And with Bahrain and North Korea likely to be eliminated this round, the only other teams who have an outside shot of making it, are Uzbekistan and Iraq. Unfortunately for Iraq, I have a feeling they may once choke in this round, as they've done in the past two WCQ campaigns.

 

I follow Asian football, last I looked Bahrain got knocked out in the group stage of the Asian cup, so to call them 5th best is beyond me fella. They are also seeded 11th in this World cup qualfiication pool, so again, wheres your theroy? You usign the 2010 world cup qualfication for these scenarios, but then tell me I can't use things from the past for my debate?

Well done, you put Bahrain to the sword, 6:0 is an outstanding result, something not expected, but you were expected to beat a team in decline and a team missing many key players due to the unfortuante circumstances in that country.

But when you tell me you will walk qualification, I laugh. Much bigger tests are to come, but for some reason you think you can stroll it.

 

Which was an expected result, when you're in the group of death, with South Korea and Australia, and they gave both of those teams a run for their money. Also, Bahrain was actually seeded 5th in Asia in the first round of WCQ, which is why they got a bye to the next round without playing any games. It was before the second round that FIFA changed the seeding formula. Bahrain has been the 5th best Asian team in the last two World Cup qualification campaigns in Asia, and consistently one of the better Asian teams, and that's what we're talking about here.

Bigger tests? Iran will only get one of Australia-Japan-Korea in the next round, and as I said, the rest of the crowd are no march for Iran at this point. That's my firm belief given Iran's current form.

You can laugh now all you want now, cause I have a feeling you will not be the one having the last laugh.

 

If anything, the gap is getting wider imo.
How many footballers in Europe do Iran have?
The current top 3 has lots of Euro-based players at the moment.

Euro-based players who have been called up for this qualification.

Code:

[B]Iran[/B]
Javad Nekounam       M    Osasuna         La Liga
Masoud Shojaei       M    Osasuna         La Liga

Code:

[B]South Korea[/B]
Park Chu-Young       F    Arsenal         Premier League
Ji Dong-Won          F    Sunderland      Premier League
Son Heung-Min        F    Hamburg         Bundesliga
Koo Ja-Cheol         M    Wolfsburg       Bundesliga
Nam Tae-Hee          M    Valenciennes    Ligue 1
Jung Jo-Gook         F    Nancy           Ligue 1
Ki Sung-Yueng        M    Celtic          Scottish Premier League
Cha Du-Ri            D    Celtic          Scottish Premier League

Code:

[B]Australia[/B]
Tim Cahill           M    Everton         Premier League
Mark Schwarzer       G    Fulham          Premier League
Luke WIlkshire       D    Dinamo Moscow   Russian Premier League
Brett Holman         F    AZ Alkmaar      Eredivisie
Michael Zullo        D    Utrecht         Eredivisie
Adam Sarota          M    Utrecht         Eredivisie
James Troisi         M    Kayserispor     Turkey
Matt McKay           M    Rangers         Scottish Premier League
Adam Federici        G    Reading         Championship
Rhys SWilliams       D    Middlesborough  Championship
Scott Mcdonald       F    Middlesborough  Championship
Mile Jedinak         M    Crystal Palace  Championship
Neil Kilkenny        M    Bristol City    Championship
Carl Valeri          M    Sassuolo        Serie B
Robbie Kruse         F    Dusseldorf      Bundesliga 2

Code:

[B]Japan[/B]
Yuto Nagatomo        D    Inter Milan     Serie A
Takayuki Morimoto    F    Novara          Serie A
Shinji Kagawa        M    Dortmund        Bundesliga
Atsuto Uchida        D    Schalke 04      Bundesliga
Shinji Okazaki       F    Stuttgart       Bundesliga
Makoto Hasebe        M    Wolfsburg       Bundesliga
Tomoaki Makino       D    Koln            Bundesliga
Hajime Hosogai       M    Augsburg        Bundesliga
Daisuke Matsui       M    Dijon           Ligue 1
Keisuke Honda        M    CSKA Moscow     Russian Premier League
Maya Yoshida         D    VVV-Venlo       Eredivisie
Eiji Kawashima       G    Lierse          Belgium
Yuki Abe             M    Leicester City  Championship

 

continue here: 2014 FIFA World Cup qualifying IV
https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=24521980#post24521980

 

That has been the case since 2009 when Iran still had half a dozen Euro-based players, ever since though, the gap had been widening between Iran and the other Asian powerhouses. But now with a world-class coach in charge of Iran, and the painful generational transition finally over, the gap is getting smaller and smaller, as we speak. As a result, the number of Iranians Euro-based players will eventually increase too, but for the moment, not having too many players in Europe has actually worked in Iran's favor, as it allows the team to train together more often in mini training camps which are held every month.

 

Mani, I don't think it matters too much about players plying there trade in Europe, there's a lot of different circumstances as to why clubs choose the players they do, so the list provided earlier isn't really an argument for anything.

I remember years ago, Turkish players would struggle when playing outside of Turkey, it didn't affect the national team, Hakan Suker was a great example of this.

Look to England, English players generally struggled abroad and hence they don't go abroad like other players would go to England, hiding behind Premier League is the quickest and best works for them.

To me, the Iranian league is pretty strong, and if you can make a living in that league, then why jump to move out? Yes, taking a chance in Europe is something the best players would do, but the world is changing aswell, currently players from South America go to Mid East before Europe, some Iranians have gone to Mid East (Qatar/UAE) which I think is a mistake personnally. But a lot of circumstance other than football has a lot to play, for example the Australian list has a lot of Australians in England, but it's hardly that hard for them to get into England.

 

There used to be a dozen Iranian players in UAE too, but with the improvement of the Iranian league, and with all the big contracts being offered in Iran (1 USD million a year is the average made by the NT players in Iran), most Iranian players prefer to stay in Iran, which is better for their careers football-wise too, in comparison with UAE that is. But at the same time, these high salaries have resulted in many players taking the easy rout, and settle for the high pay in the Iranian league, rather than taking their chances in Europe where they would not be able to make even half of that, the first couple of seasons until they make a name for themselves. For example, Karim Ansarifard had a firm offer from PSV this summer,offering him an annual salary of 400,000 USD, but instead he chose to stay in Iran and play for Saipa for 1.2 million dollars a year. This is a good thread on this very topic http://www.persianfootball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98164