Come on dude, dont be like that, the fans and the press didnt go hard on Vizuete, I remember the titulares "Muchachos, no se les reprocha nada" certain part of the press, (Serranos mostly) wanted him to remain, even Vito Munoz said Vizuete deserved a full cycle.
Yup, Ecuador starts with Vizuete and rapes Peru at Home..Oscar Bagui played under Vizuete? Which Game? Ivan Hurtado at 35 was an extraordinary Athlete and Defender. Good luck finding another. Geovanny Espinoza? Already Played at Monterey Mexico, Vitesse in Holland and was Playing in Cruzeiro during the Qualifiers. Yeah, Sure. Erazo, Achiller, Guagua and who else? have more experience than that G Espinoza and I Hurtado. Erazo was CLOWNED in the last Copa Libertadores and reason he wasn't transferred. Going to Man U my ass! Flat out awful in the air as exposed by Chile in the last game! David Quiroz and Uruttia were probably the best mixed Midfielders in the Country and Quiroz was deadly as hell in Quito. Fantastic Player. Was Valencia already at Manchester United? Chucho Benitez was ripping it up with Santos Laguna and IMO, The best Chucho. as soon as he went to America, his Scoring percentage went down the Shitter and got used to having a million chances at goal and Felipe Caicedo is currently sitting bench in Russia. This Segundo Castillo is not better than 2010 version and definitely not faster. Jc Paredes is not better than Omar de Jesus. and Edison Mendez? Reasco? This Walter Ayovi is better than the 2010 version? No he hasn't. Same old Valencia. and I was only harsh on Valencia because of why? He has no LEFT foot. and he doesn't work on it. he does one thing and one thing brilliantly. Outside cross, outside cross, outside cross. Has he improves SOOOOOoo much since his time at Wigan? NO.
Give me a player that 's well rounded that isn't Ecuadorian? I'm pretty sure you'll fail to find any player that isn't Argentinian, Brazilian or Uruguayan that is well rounded to the point that they are amazing with both feet...
wow ,so this thread has become, the lets trash Ecuador for qualifying.lets keep in perspective that when ecuador first qualified it was full of players from the local league,we didnt have the number of players other countries have that play in other leagues,we have a limited amount of players.in paper Peru has 4 strikers that played in better leagues than ours and should have been more dominating and even qualified ,but thats not how it works huh.people can keep saying altura until theyre blue in the face and it wont really matter, because just as Uruguay does what it has to do to get their repechaje so do we,we get most of our points at HOME,with a mix of local and some players from Europe and mexican league .Thats it, theres nothing to apologize or even justify.by the way you would think that all these superequipos would have tore us a new one,but for statistics sake our defense came in behind Colombia and Argentinas with 16 goals against,to their 13 and 15 respectably .get over it ,Ecuador is in the Cup,with the altitudes help,without many players in outstanding leagues save for valencia,with 50% of striking power gone after benitez death,pretty impressive if you ask me,so quit the whining and stats that dont mean much anyway.and yes that poster's icon does look like hes repping paraguay jajaja.can we get some love here ,or Am'I going to have to root for the other federations teams ,Lets go freaking Bosnia...
Experience is a great plus but only when it adds to other qualities, you say Erazo was clowned during libertadores? Please rewatch How slow Espinoza was when Paraguay scored the tie in Quito with four minutes left, Valdez could have had a cigarette before he kicked the ball in and Espinoza would not have reached him, and that was in the box, Look at the goal Suarez scored in Quito, watch that game again and look how Espinoza and Ivan couldnt handle Suarez, compare to how Erazo guarded him this time around and it wouldnt be crazy to say Suarez is a better player now, do you remember the way Ivan Hurtado was playing at BSC at that moment so bad that when Merlo comes in Benched him, so you say Quiroz 4 years ago is better than Noboa now? LMAO, I grant you that Castillo was more solid then, younger, he was in his prime, like most players in the National team NOW, Remeber Noboa doesnt come to the NT until the game against Brazil in Quito thats more than halfway into the qualifiers and that was a gutsy call by Vizuete since no one knew of him. Antonio Valencia? well he's 28 now, prime age for most footballers and I like to think hes better now since after the Vizuete era he played a Champions league finals, 2 premier titles and a Team player of the year award, in other words hes a consolidated player. Chucho Benitez? anyone who followed his career at least one bit knows he really didnt improve until he came back after flopping in England,(well after Vizuete had him and Rueda was already our coach) thats when he stepped up came back to play like never before in Santos, how did his goal average decrease when he had the best year of his career scoring 32 goals in one year (meaning an aperutra and clausura) Last but not least,look at the bench Ruedas has, Renato Ibarra? Fidel Martinez, had Christian Suarez (underrated IMO and sorely missed) Michael Arroyo, Fidel Martinez, Joao Rojas. who did Vizuete had? Mamita Calderon. Cuchara Caicedo, Luis Bolanos? (most overated player we ever had) Felix Borja, anyone who knows about ecuadorian futbol would agree with me. lets see, became a consisten starter in Man U, even when he was at his worst Ferguson never benched him, got player of the year award a year and a half ago and ask anyone when did we see the better Valencia in the NT 2010 WCQ or now?
Mixing and matching Club play and NT play is not helping your case. Yes, Erazo was clowned by Boca Junior Juveniles in the Copa Libertadores and is dreadful in the Air. Alexi Sanchez also beat him. The Main reason he was not transferred. No matter what you say, the Combination of Erazo, Guagua or Achiller is not better than Hurtado and Espinoza. and Every game is not the same or has the same situation. This is not Money Ball! and despite all those situation, The main reason Ecuador did not make the last World Cup is because they lost to Venezuela at Home. Didn't Merlo make Palacio the most prolific striker in Ecuador at the same time? So Noboa is a world Class Player now? He's a solid player. He's not outstanding, amazing or has talent oozing out. To say that Noboa blows Quiroz out of the water is a Real Stretch!!!!!! Again, Your opinion. My opinion, No he's not. He's more experienced. When you play for big clubs everything is easier. So who's the better players? Wigan players has a great performance against Manchester United or Manchester United player has a great performance against a Wigan player? 2007–2011Santos Laguna95(51) 2011–2013América79(52) Considering that America has 10X of the amount of money and has the best players.. How many goals did Martinez, Rojas, Arroyo, Ibarra and Suarez score these qualifiers? or are you impressed by the fantastic quality of Mexican League? if you are up on Current events. I wouldn't put 1 dollar into that Mexican Bank. In 2010, 10 different players scored compared 7 in this campaign. Vizuete end up with 22 GF, 26GA ended with a -4 GD counting that he inherited a -10 GD Rueda end up with 20 GF, 16 GA ended in +4 Vizuete's team was worst??? Really? SAF never benched him against Chelsea and Manchester City? I remember the Commentators wonder why. The Only Reason you say Vizuete's team was worst is because you are setting Rueda up for Failure.
First of all I never said Noboa was a world class player, that would be ridiculous, is he better than Quiroz? YES, considering once Noboa joined the NT with Vizuete, Quiroz stopped getting called that should give you a hint. Secondly, you say mentioning Hurtados level at his club while playing WCQ doesnt help my case yet you mention Erazos mistakes in BSC??? on Alexis goal on him, I admit it before, Sanchez did beat him to the punch, but please notice that the cross comes from Chiles left wing meaning its Guagua's side, seeing how Guagua was 3 yards too ahead of Sanchez its unfair to blame it on Erazo. I will never deny Hurtado and Espinoza were the best defenders we ever had but to deny that their level was at best mediocre during the 2010 qualifiers would be absurd. please remember that the whole mutiny against Suarez started because he thought Hurtado should not be part of the NT, also remember Hurtados last interview after the Chile game where he said that it was wrong of him to play the last games of the qualifiers since he had been dragging that left knee injury and that the spot should have been given to someone else. On Chucho Benitez your numbers do nothing but prove me right, his average went up moving to America opposed to what you said. in Santos in 4 years he scored 51 goals, in America in half the years he scores 52? thats double increase of goal average. and why is money being brought up in this? On Antonio Valencia all I can say as an Ecuadorian and a big futbol fan, Valencia is playing much better for the National team than he ever did with Vizuete, the guy did get 2 red cards in key games. The bench? well, lets see, Rojas scored against Paraguay played great against Uruguay in Quito, Renato Ibarra? he made Valencias absence irrelevant when we killed Chile in Quito, he created the penalty kick which gave us the lead. Vizuete would have given his left testicle to have an Ibarra when we played Venezuela last qualifiers without Valencia btw, beacuse of injury do you know who Vizuete had to use? Carlos Castro and Issac Mina LMAO Ruedas defense subs are Guagua and Achilier these 2 Guagua sucks too but Achilier is lightyears better than Mina and Carlos Castro ever were. Suarez had an excellent game against Venezuela in Quito. BT I'm not saying the mexican league is great, quite the opposite butit is what we got and tbh to have a team without the so called "stars" we dont do too bad. I see this argument will be never ending, I know you bring up valid points but I can assure you that man by man Rueda has three times the better team than the one Vizuete was handed. Edit. I do admit you are right with Vizuete having Mendez, he carried that team bro, him and Ayovi, dude believe me, I loved Vizuete and it hurts to say but 4 years ago, we had nothing.
We have to Agree to disagree and this is not an argument. Its a discussion or conversation about futbol opinions. Of course its never ending. Everyone see futbol differently and that's what great about. Finally I can have a conversion with someone about Ecuador without call me a troll or asking for me to get Banned. LOL. and Vizuete still ended up with the same number of GA and ended up with 1 more goal in favor.
Chucho scored 51 goals in 95 games for Santos Chucho scored 52 goals in 79 games for America what does years have to so with it? Double Increase? America has more money for better Players. Messi has fantastic players surrounding him at Barcelona. You think Messi would score the same amount of goals if he was player at some mid table Spanish club? He wouldn't even come close compared to what Benitez did at Santos. How many hat tricks did Chucho have for America? 2 or 3?
I know lol, our different point of views is that I credit that mostly to Vizuete considering (in my opinion) he recieved an Ecuador NT in the middle of a generation switch, I honestly think if Vizuete had the team Rueda has now, we would have beaten Venezuela away last qualifiers and Paraguay and maybe even Brasil in Quito, we would have qualified, thats just how I feel. I been giving you names of people Vizuete had to use cause there was no other options, Issac Mina, Castro, Cuchara Caicedo, to name a few, If I cant convince you then Lets leave it at that. Please don't think that I am setting up Rueda for failure, I do like him, I really do, the biggest improvement he made on us was showing us how to close games, dude, I have witnessed so many times us tying or losing the match in the last minutes that its nice seeing now how we are closer to score another goal than us dropping points, not just that, Rueda has done many great things for us, yet, all I'm saying is that I'm aware that we dont have a world class team with stars everywhere, but Rueda recieved a pretty well balanced team, solid, excelentt physique, experienced and with young talented players to work. Decent goalkeepers. Solid defense (hey, 3rd best defense overall right?) Good Midfield. Decent forwards. by no means its a great team but definitely a team that with the help of an altitude advantage and mucha pero mucha entrega y corazon should be able to qualify and it did.
Thats still a better average tho. Theres a flip side to that tho, how many times we seen players score big on small, mid size clubs and then transfer to the big clubs in the same league and fail miserably, SPECIALLY in the Mexican league, I can name examples from most leagues I assure you, the typical case of les quedo grande la camiseta, but Benitez didnt flop in America he did really good there so much they started the Chuchodependencia mock, dude you cant argue that Rueda had a much better version of Benitez than the one Vizuete had to deal with.
Arturo Vidal, I don't think there is a S.American player out there so good at attack, defence, transitioning, assists and goals. He's right up there with Yaya and Schweinsteiger IMO.
Easily one of the top 5 box to box MF in the WORLD at the moment. He is the engine that runs Chile. He makes everything look so freakin' easy. Love this player and hoping he will shine in the WC.
Vidal's a beast. But since the topic is Ecuador's talent, I have to say Jefferson Montero might be the best Ecuadorian midfielder I've ever seen. The guy is amazing! I like him better than Valencia.
I think Valencia is more complete and more consistent... But with those 2 i think we can say that Ecuador has the best 2 wingers in the region
Montero terminó siendo jugador clave para Ecuador en las últimas fechas eliminatorias. No entendía porque fue a jugar a México pero evidentemente debe ganar (mucho) más dinero. Ojalá pronto vuelva a Europa.
Creo que el Villareal estaba pidiendo 2 o 3 Milliones por el, pero no estaba al nivel que ahora muestra, por eso creo que Betis no lo contrato a largo. Como ver para creer, el Morelia aprovecho y bueno ya hace rato que esta ahi.
El Betis como que tiene una situación economía difícil, el último verano tampoco pudo retener a pabon y el Monterrey se hizo el negocio
Me recuerda a el caso de Suazo, estaba para cosas mayores... lastima que cuando se fue a Europa solo se fue a préstamo a un equipo sin un peso para mantenerlo (Zaragoza). A Montero le paso lo mismo con Betis que tampoco tiene demasiado dinero.
This is why Ecuador needs to have a good world cup. Our players NEED to make the move to Mexico before they are taken serious by any European club (usually a small club). They make the move for financial reasons since clubs in Ecuador, even the supposed big teams, can't pay some of their players. Then players like Benitez (so unfair that in the EPL he ended up playing "kickball" for Birmingham City) and Montero (Real Betis) get stuck in between being a good investment opportunity for America and Morelia and too expensive for the smaller European clubs.
El tal Beñat--que jugando por el Betis debutó por España--se fue al Swansea, por ejemplo (otro jugador importante/bueno).
Hay que ser honesto, es muy dificl que los clubes inviertan una buena cantidad de dinero en un jugador Ecuatoriano, la mayor razon? Clubes como Peruggia, SouthHampton en su debido tiempo apostaron fuerte en Ivan Kaviedez y Agustin Delgado (historicos para nosotros) just cuando Ecuador estaba dando el salto a ser un equipo que por supuesto no estaba para ser protagonista en la Conmebol pero se estaba transformando en uno de los animadores de la eliminatoria, a estos equipos les fue mal, Kaviedez le fue muy mal en Europa, Delgado peor, y se les dio el chance a otros como Klever Chala, Sombra Espinoza (seleccionados) y fue la misma historia, y mas reciente la noticia fue uno de los jugadores mas sobreestimados en nuestro futnbol, Joffre Guerron, El Getafe rompio el chanchito por el y creo que anoto 4 goles y comio banca hasta el cansancio, Con ese historial muy dificil apostar en ellos. Otro factor, conociendo la actitud y personalidad de nuestros jugadores, Mexico les sabe tentador a ellos, no nos enganemos, Mexico es una de las mejores ligas pagadas, el mismo idioma, es casi una garantia que van a jugar de titulares. muchos de mis compatriotas se enojan conmigo cuando doy este punto de vista, pero por ejemplo les aseguro que Fidel Martinez hubiese ido a Europa hoy en dia todavia estuviese tratando de consolidarse, mientras que en Mexico en menos de una temporada ya era figura y gracias a ello va a jugar un Mundial. Creo que por ahora mientras veo que jugadores como Aguinaga, Walter Ayovi, Chucho Benitez, Segundo Castillo (ya no en Mexico) pasaron tanto tiempo jugando en Mexico pero cada vez con la sellecion la entrega y corazon fueron al 120% me conformo y hasta acepto las circunstancias, somos un equipo chico que esta tratando de crecer y todo poco a poco. Ojala con el ejemplo de Antonio Valencia, a jovenes como Renato Ibarra en Holanda, Henry Rua, Ayrton Preciado, Jairo Padilla, todos en Portugal, Chritian Ramirez en Alemania se les abran las puertas, son chicos sanos de muy buen fisico y buen control de balon. ellos con otros son el futuro de Ecuador.