2014 FIFA World Cup™ Round of 16: United States v. Belgium | Tues, Jul 1

Discussion in 'World Cup 2014 - Knockout Rounds' started by starbuk, Jun 26, 2014.

  1. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he was 5'10"

    i quiver to think how tall you might be. do you happen to have a photo of you next to Manute Bol???
     
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  2. magisterlucius

    Nov 10, 2003
    Roseburg, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think 5'10" is very generous. I might have a photo with Ralph Sampson somewhere but I rather look like Enzo standing next to me in it.:)
     
  3. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I'm hoping for Gedion, and Flores to come in, Gyau to finally start producing.

    This world cup reminded all of us of how problematic it can be to lack striker depth (2006 redux, except this time the problem was our kids weren't quite ready, rather than that there was nothing to speak of available), to not have wingers (how much better would the attack have looked if we could have started Fabian Johnson, and a mature Julian Green on the wings like we probably will be doing at the Gold Cup next summer, and the Copa Centennial in 2016, or at least Donovan, instead of work hard mediocrity Zusi, and defensive specialist Bedoya (more known for his two way game as a defensive winger, than really attacking), and going forward, how crucial it will be to find a legit replacement for the terror that was Jermaine Jones at DM. Maybe Edu can find his way back into the role, but I'm not sure that we know who will play that role when Jones retires.

    I think we're fine at keeper (Guzan, and three kids behind him in Hamid, Johnson, and Steffen), our defense is quite young, and will just be better and still young in 2018, but other than Bradley, we have to replace everything in the midfield, and will need a striker partner for Altidore, or outright replacement if we have better.

    It's definitely exciting, though, to imagine a midfield with Julian Green, Fabian Johnson, Michael Bradley, and maybe Flores, Gyau, and Gedion if everything breaks right. Remember nothing has broken right since Altidore and Bradley and Adu nearly shocked the world at the U-20 WC in 2007 (beat Brazil, beat Suarez and Cavani's Uruguay, inexplicably lost to Austria in the QF's, because of a howler from our injured goalie :( ), Adu flopped, Renken lost both his knees and then his career, Gyau, stalled out, Holden was broken by Dejong, our '09, '11, '12 U-23's, and U-17's and U-20's in '13 all largely flopped, with the '13 incarnation being ruined by injuries (only Yedlin among the top 5 prospects was able to play in that tournament if memory serves), it's about time all the structural changes with our development system start paying off. I've got my eye on our U-17's delivering on the early promise they've shown at the Nike friendlies and the Aegean Cup this past winter, at the U-17 World Cup in the fall of '15, while our U-20's look like possibly the best cycle since 2007, and the disappointment of the Gyau/Renken class and will showcase in the summer of '15. Then there is the U-23's qualifying in '16 for the Olympics, and considering the elite quality of our kids who will be under 23 years old in 2016, that could be spectacular so long as we don't have a nightmare like we did two years ago.

    I get the sense from Klinsy that he's ready to close the door on the career MLS'ers with lower ceilings, and build our Gold Cup '15 roster on youth, with only a couple of vets.

    Guess would be:
    K: Howard/Guzan/Hamid
    RB: Yedlin/Chandler/Cameron/Lichaj
    CB: Brooks/Cameron
    CB: Gonzo/Besler
    LB: Chandler/Beasley

    CM: Bradley/Edu/Zelalem?/Jones
    RW: F. Johnson/Yedlin/Zusi
    LW: J. Green/Bedoya

    F: Altidore/Dempsey/Johannson/Boyd/Agudelo

    Having a core with players basically 24 or younger manning the entire defense, every midfielder other than Jones well under 30, and every forward in the pool other than Dempsey under 25.

    The only 30+ vets that I think might get a role in the Gold Cup and the Copa Centennial are probably Howard, Jones, and Dempsey. All are hugely important in their own ways, as good as Guzan as, Howard has reached his peak, I would prefer to not lose our very best keepers in their top form and prime twice after the past four world cups (Friedel reached his prime from '02-'06, and quit the US after the QF run in '02 to focus on his club career). Howard has a couple of years left of elite keeping in him. I'd really hope he'd stick around at least through the Gold Cup considering it's importance for Confed Cup qualification.

    What's exciting for me is that the bulk of our team from keeper forward, is both deep, and reasonable or better in upside, and very, very young, and the fact that our current youth crops are excellent (virtually the entirety of our U-20's are based in Europe, or already playing professionally for MLS teams, and are mostly 16-18 years old right now, the bulk 17 if memory serves.).

    2018 could be the break through cycle, especially with a reasonable group and knockout round pairing (think landing Group C, D, E or F this cycle, if you landed in any of those groups, there was only one team, on paper, that was terrifying, Argentina, and they actually haven't delivered, amongst those four groups, only France and Colombia have acutally impressed). If you could win group A, B, C, D, E, F or G, you're opponent in the R16's was not going to be too frightening, and runner up status in C, E, and F weren't too bad either considering how the winners in D (Costa Rica), and F (Argentina), simply weren't remotely as scary as playing Brazil in Brazil, Netherlands, Colombia, France, or Germany.

    Very excited. This time accomplished a great deal despite a mass of injuries, a horrific draw, the inexplicable exclusion of Donovan, being a between generations side (very few players in their prime, most were either a bit past it, or quite young) and having to jerry rig things. What might a team accomplish that was healthy, approaching its prime, and w/a reasonable draw? A great deal more. Hopefully the '15-'18 edition is as mentally tough, and dedicated as the '10 and '14 teams were, but even more talented, as they appear likely to be.
     
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  4. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, Schifo came out as "Vincent Stordeur." Some of the other past Belgium players came out as PolVan den Broeck (Paul van Himst), Maurice Dubois (Michel deWolfe), Jef Provost (JM Pfaff) and Jos Claes (Jan Culemans).

    Me, I came out as Thibaut Hainaut
     
  5. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was at that game, I disagree. Particularly in the first half and up to the point we went up 2-0 on Turkey and then gave up space and possession, it was a revelation how well we played. I felt it was the turning point for this team. They attacked Turkey defended well other than the brain farts that led to some decent chances on goal. It showed that Fabian Johnson and Yeldin had talent and skill. Yes, there were some gaffs defensively, but it gave hope and it marked the turning point for Jozy Altidore's play.
     
  6. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    are you telling me that all those guys are homosexual.

    floored, i am.
     
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  7. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I would never deny that the attack looked beautiful in that game, but the defense was completely exposed, and the only reason we weren't played off the field was the failure of the Turks to take their chances.
     
  8. puyol

    puyol Member+

    FC Barcelona
    Dec 24, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
  9. puyol

    puyol Member+

    FC Barcelona
    Dec 24, 2009
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
  10. paulalanr

    paulalanr Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    New Orleans, LA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I more or less agree with the talent evaluation, but I think you're missing a little bit. Jones played as well as any midfielder in this tourney. If his assist to Wondo/Dempsey goes in, and we play one more match, he might have made it onto the best XI of the tournament. If he were two years younger, big clubs would be after him.
    Matt Besler has also shown great talent in this tournament, as well as Fabian Johnson.
    It's early and they showed few minutes on the pitch, but Deandre Yedlin and Julian Green are also full of talent. They will be massive for the US in 2016-2018 assuming no serious injuries in the meantime.
     
  11. paulalanr

    paulalanr Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    New Orleans, LA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vertonghen stole a goal right off Clint Dempsey's head in somewhere near the 21st minute. And he continued to play strong that whole match. He and Kompany (injured??? whatever.....) absolutely tore out the heart of the American attack.
     
  12. paulalanr

    paulalanr Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    New Orleans, LA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    dude, if it bothers you, watch streams from another country, where they're jacking off their own team, or watch Univision or something. WTF do you expect from the national sports network??

    Have you seen the Globo, Sport TV, or ESPN Brazil coverage? It's allbrasilallthetime. Todos. Os. Tempos.
     
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  13. paulalanr

    paulalanr Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    New Orleans, LA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honestly Belgium looked way better than I and most US fans expected. Then of course they went out against Argentina and looked ordinary again. Belgium played their best match of the tournament against the USA, and they *needed* to play that well to defeat us. It was the only match where Belgium's glut of talent really showed serious class.
     
  14. paulalanr

    paulalanr Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    New Orleans, LA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unfortunately agree. They choked away the win at Portugal too. We can't keep being satisfied with decent effort when we're not taking the chances given us to win.

    Brian McBride and Jon O'Brien would not have let those chances go sitting. I'm almost afraid that our higher profile players today aren't as hungry at the last minute, like the world-class stars on many other teams, once they put on the national shirt.
     
  15. paulalanr

    paulalanr Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    New Orleans, LA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is why you play the game. And why Goalkeepers are important. Ifs and buts are pure speculation, and at the end of the day, Belgium, admittedly more talented, just barely got by us.
     
  16. paulalanr

    paulalanr Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    New Orleans, LA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That can't be true. Bedoya's shot near the end of the match was on goal, and blocked by the right back. I think there may have been others near the end of the first half as well. And of course Jones probably scores about 25 minutes in if not for the ref body-checking him onto the turf.
     
  17. paulalanr

    paulalanr Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    New Orleans, LA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Guzan is arguably better than Howard. But I wouldn't say so this week. The real issue is who's behind Guzan.
     
  18. Tukafo

    Tukafo Member+

    Oct 12, 2013
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    I used the official match stats. Did you?
    Shots blocked by defenders are sometimes counted, mostly not (otherwise literally half the events in a football match are shots on target, including most events in midfield). In any case Neuer didn't need to save that blocked shot. Official stats list his saves as zero.
    Body checks are not shots on target :)
     
  19. paulalanr

    paulalanr Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    New Orleans, LA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    lol, roger that on the body check. Just saying that the US had chances, and I don't see how Bedoya's shot is *not* considered a shot on goal. It definitely goes in if Lahm doesn't race 60 yards to block it. Man, did he *really* have to try that hard?? They could have spotted us a friendly goal there. Same outcome in the table. :p
     
  20. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

    Oct 26, 2006
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Actually, if they'd played half as well (20 shots instead of 40) and both teams converted 10% of their chances...they still would have beat you 2-1. So no, they could have played worse and still beat you.
     
  21. canis

    canis Member

    Jun 10, 2014
    La reina del Plata
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well, if my aunt had a cock I would call her uncle.
    Sorry, don´t mean to be rude, just fail to see the logic in these arguments.
     
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  22. Karloski

    Karloski Member+

    Oct 26, 2006
    England
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Just trying to point out the fact that Belgium could have played half as bad..and they still would have done enough to win and been the better team....so they didn't 'have' to play that well to win, as was suggested.

    If and but arguments are pretty meaningless on the whole....but when you've got US fans bemoaning the fact that all they had to do was score their last minute chance to earn a good victory...whilst forgetting that Belgium only had to finish 1 or 2 of their 30 chances in normal time (Howard only pulled off about 4 fantastic saves...the majority was poor finishing)...is just blinkered. I feel the need to point these things out.
     
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  23. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And even in the big cities, we had to get most of our coverage from foreign magazines or newspapers. Personally, I used to purchase World Soccer or Four-Four-Two on a regular basis.

    Part of this is the general coverage of the sport. I don't follow basketball much, but I can talk about it for hours simply because of the general coverage. As for soccer, there is also not just a huge gap in terms of knowledge about the game, but knowledge of the game (see point below). This makes talking about soccer difficult in the US among Americans.

    The longer serving members of BS have said that the one area that will prevent the US from becoming a great team is coaching. A lot of coaching knowledge is gained though experience, and when one does not grow up in a soccer culture/environment, then there is a lack of knowledge. Personally, I have seen this from Russian or El Salvadorian parents explaining tactics to their kids in a way that my own parents could not. I have seen this in the way coaches talk to players foreign born versus native born. I have seen this in officiating.

    One point that I tell people about in terms of the grown of the fan base is to compare a US v. Mexico match now to 1994. I was living in LA at the time, and the US played a warm up match versus Mexico in the Rose Bowl. Of the 90,000 in attendence, my guess is that about 5000 of us were cheering for the US, which was pretty typical in those days. Now, the US fans would have a majority support in the same venue.
     
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  24. jerrito

    jerrito Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    America
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy

    Excellent points. A few years after I came here, I met a man about my age from Milano who had come a few years before me. He was coaching a team of nine or ten year old boys. His team was losing the match 1-0 and there was only one or two minutes left. I asked him why he had not sent every one forward including perhaps his goalkeeper. He said "Perche? Perche non capiscono un cazzo di quello che gli dico!"

    "Why? Because they don't understand what the f@@k I tell them anyway!"

    His English was fine but I think he had a hard time getting them to understand the game. :)
     
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  25. paulalanr

    paulalanr Member

    Nov 5, 2013
    New Orleans, LA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    your argument is really tired. It's exactly like predicting the whole tournament on paper before playing the matches. Belgium converted exactly one more chance than the USA did. Thus they barely won.

    If you want to look at it another way, their conversion percentage on their shots was horrendous, and way worse than the US's conversion percentage on their chances. It's like an NFL team winning a game despite having a -2 turnover margin and only completing 35% of their passes. You might win, but you looked ugly doing it, and the other team frustrated you the entire way.

    Too many international football fans make too much out of the style or the creativity of their team's efforts. What matters on every day after the match is played is the scoreline, and missed chances, no matter how creative or stylish, don't reflect on the final score.
     
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