2014-2015 Transfer Thread

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by NotreDameFlamengo, May 21, 2014.

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  1. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    NorthEast USA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Chelsea has been good to the Brazilians who were actually brought to play for them not the ones who were sent on loan:rolleyes:.

    I just don't understand why they buy players they'll never use and why players sign for them when they know their history. Unless there are hidden financial aspects involved. At least DeBruyne was actually on the first team before he left.

    I'd rather Nathan Alan actually play first team football in Brazil before he signs with any team in Europe especially Chelsea. As far as you asking should he sign for a top team and sit on the bench, he hasn't shown anything in Brazil for any top team to even look at him. He barely even played for Atletico Paranaense senior side. At least when you guys were linked with Kenedy it made a bit of sense as he has some experience playing with Flu and a loan could have been beneficial.
     
  2. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    I'm not arguing THAT point. I'm only saying players who are bought by Chelsea and are then loaned out are hardly in a bad place. No difference between that and being bought by a Dutch team right away.

    Besides, how much first team football did Oscar really play in Brazil given his contract issues?
     
  3. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    NorthEast USA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

    Much more than Nathan Allan. You said you were about to ask about him and I'm answering you. Nathan only got promoted to the first team last season and even then wasn't really used at all. I thought he'd use this season as his first full one in Brasileiro as he was linked to moving to SPFC. At least when you guys were linked to Kenedy, it made a bit of sense as he has experience and potential.

    Nathan is a huge question mark and will be another Lucas Piazon.
     
  4. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    Given Piazon is still only 21, that might not be a bad scenario at all. Not every prospect can become a star, and it's too early to tell with Piazon anyway.
     
  5. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

    Jun 16, 2008
    New Orleans
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Honduras
    Are you saying if a kid doesn't pan out at Chelsea, since they get loaned out constantly, then its the players fault???

    Im just confused
     
  6. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
  7. MerlinRM

    MerlinRM Member+

    May 5, 2014
    NorthEast USA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    nicephoras repped this.
  8. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    He had a decent South American U-20 for a team that struggled throughout the competition. He has decent finishing for a winger and can dribble well. Needs work in other areas, like tactical discipline, marking, etc. He will probably have to go out on loan maybe after playing with your youth team..
     
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  9. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    He'll have to go out on loan anyway - he won't get a work permit. Expect to see him at Vitesse..........
     
  10. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    It wouldn't be a bad move.

    Speaking of Vitesse, Lucas Piazon needs to take the next step in developing his game. He started relatively well at Frankfurt, and now it seems like he doesn't play much. I'd like to see him get a taste of England and play for a lower table side. I also haven't heard very much about Wallace this season.
     
  11. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    Piazon tends to fade in the second half of the season; did it at Vitesse too. Wallace has been playing somewhat regularly for Vitesse, actually - he's had a pretty good season, but he had an injury, as I recall, and then a bit of a prostitute issue :D. Vitesse is actually doing pretty well; if they win their last game and Feyenoord draw, they have a chance to get into the CL qualifying stages. They have the third best goal differential in Eiredivisie, so will at least have a chance to play in the Europa league.
     
  12. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I feel that these players that leave too soon are having a hard time developing in Europe. Too much difference in what is expected of them. If I was an European side I would start to purchase the players but keep them in Brazil while they develop further, this would deal with a couple of issues.
    1. Finding a place for them to play consistently
    2. Not having to deal with players getting acclimated to a different culture at such a young age and ultimately failing due to homesickness.
    Man after years of failure after failures of bringing youth players to Europe teams keep on doing it, when it's obvious that only a small percentage actually make it. Why keep on trying to get lucky on this lottery? Why not just allow their product (this is what players are) to mature so they can get a nice return for their investment?

    I mean.. Didi didn't work out in Europe... it's not like he didn't have talent! Many of these players have talent that eclipses the players starting in front of them, they just don't get used to culture and climate.

    And for the people that will say.. oh what about Ronaldo, Firmino etc... they are the VAST minority, they are the 1-2% that works out. The numbers are not exactly in your favor to get a player that WILL work out. Imagine how much better Coutinho would have been if he had stayed in Vasco for the next 3 years and left at the age of 21. He would have likely won the Copa do Brasil with Vasco, had a great run in the 2011 Brasileirao, great run in the 2011 sudamericana and 2012 Libertadores experience.

    Much better than the experience he had in Europe. And likely would have been worth a WHOLE lot more when inter transfered him after loan spell after loan spell.

    Edit:
    Oh almost forgot.. and he would have all of that under the tutelage of Juninho Pernambucano... Yeah inter made a royal ******** up there.
     
  13. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    But most youth players don't work out period, so the argument that they don't work out in Europe more is incredibly hard to prove. Also, Didi's really a terrible example; he was frozen out by the best player of his generation at the best club side in the world. A very different situtation.
     
  14. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I agree 100%. It seems like only the Portuguese do that once in a while. At the very least, when they see someone is not ready, they give them a chance to play in Brazil again.

    Another thing that does more harm than good is the constant change in scenery. These players get loaned to different teams every year and sometimes different leagues. It's hard to adapt to somewhere when you keep moving. It's one thing to adapt to "Europe", but there are also differences among the European countries and its teams which require an acclimation period. I still feel certain leagues handle Brazilians better than others -- Italy is one, but they no longer get the cream of the crop like they did in the past.
     
  15. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Thiago Silva is a prime example of a player that went, came back and now is being successful. He was loaned all over the place there had a horrible time. Players need to have a bit more control over their careers.
     
  16. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  17. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    We'll do our best. So far our army of loanees has done OK for themselves; for all the complaining about loans, Lukaku starts at Everton (which fits him better) while deBruyne is one of the top players in the BL. These players may never get a chance at Chelsea, but their development certainly hasn't been terrible. Hazard the younger is also doing pretty well at Moenschengladbach - 22 appearances this season at the age of 22. We've taken a much better approach to it, really, and now there are rumors that Marseille want to use our youth as part of a loan program since they're dirt poor, so that would certainly be a nice way to blood players at the highest level, even if I'm not entirely convinced of the idea.
     
  18. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Marseille may be "too big" of club for most of your loanees. Getting a stake in French football would be nice because their teams do quite well in terms of youth development. If that deal does go down and Bielsa remains the coach, I hope he approves the players you send because he basically ostracized a signing (Doria) because he wasn't the coach yet to approve it.
     
  19. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    Personally I agree Marseille is a step too far. I'd prefer a club more like Lille, with whom we already have a friendly relationship. I don't see OM playing our loanees against PSG/Lyon, while Lille would need them. That's why I don't like loaning players to big clubs - there's little incentive for them to play.
     
  20. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

    Jun 16, 2008
    New Orleans
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Honduras
    Plus its Bielsa... Enjoy running 24/7
     
  21. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  22. Catracho_Azul

    Catracho_Azul Member+

    Jun 16, 2008
    New Orleans
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Honduras
    Too early fam. Sink or swim.
     
  23. JoãozinhoFutebol

    Feb 16, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Looks like @lawsonishere was right bout Felipao getting the boot soon.
     
    Emperor Adriano repped this.
  24. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  25. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

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