2012 NFL Offseason Arrests

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by minerva, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I posted about this in the Football forum, but I think this is an important enough issue to deserve a thread here in P&CE.
    so I live here in Denver where the arrest of Elvis Dumorvile has caused quite a stir, and the local sports radio waves have been all-Dumorvile all the time, non-stop for the last couple of days. then I hear that Dez Bryant and Marshawn Lynch have been arrested as well for various offenses.
    this rash of arrests got me wondering about how many NFL players are facing legal issues of some kind going into training camp. I hear about D. J. Williams (who seems to be a real knuckle-head - with 2 failed drug tests this offseason) all the time here in Denver also.
    I did a little research and I found this database, which hasn't been updated for the latest string of arrests (https://www.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database), but it's quite disturbing on at least a couple of levels: (1) the number of black players being arrested versus players of any other race (seems to mirror society in general, where young black men are being arrested and incarcerated at a much higher rate than any other race); and (2) the number of NFL players being arrested versus other major US sports league (MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS(?)).
    my question - why?
     
  2. Dr Jay

    Dr Jay BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 7, 1999
    Newton, MA USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rosters are bigger
     
  3. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    This is the most obvious explanation.

    Anyway, the rate at which NFL players get arrested is still lower than the general population, especially when you consider that young black men are more likely to get pinched for little shit that young men of other races for little shit like fights and dime bags and drunk & disorderly. Plus, NFL players seem to have an unhealthy affinity for Miami Beach (probably because South Florida produces so much talent), and MBPD is one of the shittier big city police departments in the country.
     
  4. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Jason Kidd was signed by the Knicks and within days was out at "da club" getting smashed and doing this to his car in the Hamptons:

    [​IMG]

    An NYPD cop said most people would be dead or severely injured. Ironically, he took out local Cablevision service...the company owned by his new bosses.
     
  5. yellowbismark

    yellowbismark Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    Club Tijuana
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's lucky to be alive looking at that mangled wreck.
     
  6. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    FWIW, it looks better than Charliedavismobile.
     
  7. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    Minerva, if you get a chance to watch a documentary named "Go Tigers!" you will find many answers to your questions. It's about Massilon High School in Ohio and follows a few players for a season.
     
  8. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    no I haven't. I don't have cable either. can you provide a quick synopsis?

    roster size has something to do with it. at 53, it's certainly bigger than any other major pro sport, but at 40, MLB comes pretty close. still, I don't think that's a very complete explanation. and NFL (and african american NFL players specifically) still far outstrip the other major pro leagues in getting arrested.
     
  9. wallacegrommit

    Sep 19, 2005
    Do you have any stats? How does the rate of arrests/player ratio compare between the NBA and the NFL, for example? And how do we know that blacks are arrested at a higher rate? A bunch of guys in the database you linked are white (Julian Edelman, David Diehl, Matt Prater). I believe about 2/3 of NFL players are black. Just because most of the players getting arrested are black doesn't mean the ratio is that much out of whack. We'd have to break down the numbers to see if it is out of line with the demographics of the NFL population.
     
  10. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yeah, I don't. honestly, my comments were anecdotal, based on my own observations. I was hoping the discussion generated by the thread would lead to some hard data on just the questions you're raising.
     
  11. wallacegrommit

    Sep 19, 2005
    Speaking generally, many players come from tough areas and/or difficult family situations and in the offseason when they don't have the structure of being in the team facility and needing to stick to a set schedule, some players don't handle it well. Some want to cut loose a bit and have fun before heading back to training camp. Some hang out with old friends who get them into trouble. That's one reason teams like to get red flagged players to commit to "voluntary" offseason workouts so that they can keep tabs on them.
     
  12. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    1. Please quantify "far outstrip". EDIT: Nevermind, I see your response above.

    2. You know what's the simplest explanation? Seasons. More arrests happen when it's warm because people go outside. And when you're out, that's more opportunities to get arrested. NFL happens to be off in early summer, while baseball players have their offseason in colder weather. Plus, the phblic is less likely to be paying attention to player arrest news during the holidays or NFL playoffs.

    3. NFL's talent pool comes disproportionately from the poorest areas of the poorest region in the country. And baseball's barrier to entry is higher, what with elite camps and personal coaches.

    Now, you're thinking, "Oh, so poor people committ more crimes?" (okay, let's just assume you asked). Well, yes. But more importantly, poor people are policed differently. Which means that:
    a) They enter adulthood with priors for stuff like marijuana possession and fisticuffs, stuff middle class white people have to really try to get pinched for.
    b) They go home to hang out with friends and family, exposing themselves to be arrested for marijuana possession and fisticuffs. Oh, and they're probably more likely to get pulled over, and once they get pulled over, the aforementioned priors come up when their licenses are scanned.

    Which isn't to say NFL players don't commit serious crimes. But if you discount possession and disorderly conduct and not-too-crazy assault, and control for seasonality, I think you'll find that the baseball-football gap isn't so staggering.

    Oh, and CONFIRMATION BIAS!!!!
     
    GiuseppeSignori repped this.
  13. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You made me think of another possible reason why NFL players seem to be getting arrested at a higher rate - the NFL has a much longer offseason than any of the other leagues. And the fact that some teams are trying to shorten the offseason with mini camps, training camps, "voluntary" workouts, etc., means that player try even harder than normal to get their partying in within a shorter timeframe - especially in the few weeks leading up to the start of training camp. They know that after trainig camp starts, the fun ends until January.
     
  14. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    The length of the offseason obviously makes sense too. And also, because the average baseball career is longer than the average NFL career, there are a lot more younger football players, and young rich men from poor backgrounds are more likely to do stupid shit than the general population.

    And yet, NFL players don't get in trouble at any worse rate than the general population.
     
  15. wallacegrommit

    Sep 19, 2005
    Probably even at a lesser rate than college players getting into trouble. To some extent, there is a weeding out process, because there is so much more competition for NFL jobs, apart from the really exceptional talents who get multiple chances (e.g. Mike Vick) most of the other players will get discarded if they don't shape up. It is easier to find someone else to fill who has less baggage.

    There are 32 teams, with 53 players. That's 1,696 spots. Let's say 10% are open in a given year, so about 170 or so jobs (even round up to 200). There are 120 FBS schools, maybe 20 or so players for each school (not even counting players from other divisions or foreign players) so circa 2,400 players coming out each season. Plus all the players who didn't catch on the previous season(s) that are still trying to hold onto the dream. Even if you are in the top 10% of players, you can still be left out without a place.

    Dez Bryant, Dumervill, Lynch, those guys will get some slack, but Goodell can suspend them too if they have repeat violations, so the patience of the teams isn't unlimited. Non-stars? Many of those guys will just get cut if they mess up bad. They might continue to be plagued with legal problems after they leave the league, but it usually doesn't make the front pages anymore.
     
  16. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  18. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I would guess they get into trouble more than the general wealthy population.
     
  19. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But they didn't grow up with the wealthy population...or even the middle class population.
     
  20. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    That's probably true. They're definitely more targeted by the police than the general wealthy population, and they come into more contact with common folks and jealousy/old beefs can complicate issues.
     
  21. wallacegrommit

    Sep 19, 2005
    Do NFL players get arrested more often than white Hollywood celebrities? Because Charlie Sheen and Lindsey Lohan set the bar rather high. Even Bieber got pulled over the other day. :p
    When you're a celebrity every day is the offseason!
     
  22. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I actually don't think there is any "there" there on this subject.
     
  23. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @benmaller: In latest sign the NFL Rookie Symposium is working, Chiefs DB Donald Washington has been busted for DUI. (Via http://t.co/RoqJF82S)
     

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