2012 Hot seat or getting warm seat

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by Cliveworshipper, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. upprv

    upprv Member

    Aug 4, 2004
    I've posted and deleted a bunch of times on the ucla hire. I'm a longtime bruin fan who doesn't want to disparage the school. I've been really bummed at the way this search and hire has been conducted. It's been a head scratcher the whole way and the tidbits I have heard have been disappointing.
    They won't hire petrucelli. (Right?!) Not sure why he got contacted (again head scratcher) but as we all know in this business, it's who you know.

    Here are my thoughts:
    They need to cut the uswnt cord. They won't, but they need to.
    The admin isn't that invested in soccer. A long search doesn't necessarily equate to that but how this has functioned and who they considered shows very little forethought and care.
    It might result in a good hire regardless.
    Like any job and hire that we discuss on here, there's no foolproof way for an AD to predict success with a hire. They make the best guess they can. That can hide an admin that is terrible by making a great hire or can disparage a good admin that makes a bad guess.

    The proof will be in 4 or 5 years when we have some results to look at.
    Whoever gets it walks into a loaded situation.
     
  2. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    ??wha?? Is Nolan leaving? Going where?? He's been great for the Hoyas!
     
  3. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Heard that too. Dave Nolan is on UCLA's short list. Now that makes sense. Has brought Georgetown up a long way. Seems to recruit good Cali kids there so he has recruiting success in that area.
     
  4. upprv

    upprv Member

    Aug 4, 2004
    Id imagine Nolan and Cromwell are the frontrunners.
     
  5. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    That would be too bad for Georgetown. He's done really well on the Hilltop. Does G-town then go try to poach Pensky away from Tennessee?
     
  6. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    I tend to agree with your line of thinking but What?
    First, this is big time speculation and second, how in the world is Georgetown prepared to come even close to what Tenn has offered Pensky? My guess is Nolan probably makes around half what Pensky does Plus they gave him enough money to lure away a current HC to work as his main assistant, who probably makes what Nolan makes at Gtown. Plus, he just moved his family down there and as nice as NW DC may be, it's WAY different than raising kids on good money in Knoxville. Unless the wife is just miserable, I don't see him leaving for a long time.
    Nolan to UCLA is an interesting thought. He's not all that rooted to DC and it's a once-in-a-lifetime kind of gig. You could argue he's done about as well as he can there perhaps but if he does go, Plenty of folks would be interested in Georgetown and they would never need to put enough money on the table to attract a top current BCS coach. They would probably want private or catholic school pedigree anyway. Calabretta, who just moved his family to Wake, is the one that might be kicking himself if this were to happen.
     
  7. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a person who has spent time in Georgetown: It is one of the most spectacular places to live anywhere, including in terms of raising kids. And by "anywhere," I mean in the world. I've also lived in Manhattan and am out here in Portland, OR, both of which are great places to live -- although I wouldn't want to live in Manhattan long term. Georgetown is one of the one or two places I would consider attractive for living other than where I am now. (No disrespect intended to Knoxville, I've never been there.) However, my understanding is that Georgetown's soccer facility is seriously removed from the campus. If that is true, it would be a real problem for me.
     
  8. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    The real problem is G-town is notoriously cheap and there's no way they're going to pay to bring back a local, elite coach (totally agree w/ you Eddie). But it'd be kind of nice to see.
     
  9. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    And if you have visions of raising a family in Georgetown on a soccer coach's salary, you are living in a dream world.

    CP, think Council Crest home prices for something a bit smaller.

    and you might be confusing GW's field with Georgetown's

    Georgetown plays at North Kehoe field right on Campus. Kehoe field right next door is a Turf field for practice.
    [​IMG]


    George Washington University has the downtown campus right near the White House and the N. Vernon campus a mile or two West of Georgetown's campus and plays at the N. Vernon Campus, right near the Georgetown reservoir where it and FoxHall road come together. That is a ways from the downtown campus, but I think undergrads have dorms on that campus.

    45 years ago I played both schools in Lacrosse and Soccer on the mall near the Polo fields.
     
  10. SoccerTrustee

    SoccerTrustee Member

    Feb 5, 2008
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    No way an SEC coach such as Pensky would leave for Georgetown. G-town is a wonderful area and obviously Nolan has shown you can recruit and win there. But SEC football has a lot of $ and that does filter through the rest of athletics. SEC coaches are paid much better than ACC coaches even though the ACC typically may have better coaches and certainly better players. I have heard SEC coaches have a hard time spending their equipment budgets; how many running shoes do your players really need? And that $ also goes into fantastic facilities, as Pensky knows.

    Nolan also has been pretty active with Bethesda Soccer Club. You typically don't see many head coaches, at least not at top programs, keeping pretty active with a club team as well. My guess is that he probably needed to have Bethesda for financial support as Georgetown was not a huge paycheck, at least not for living in one of the most expensive markets in the country. My guess is Bethesda was giving him anywhere from $15K-$25K for a team which is nice side money but obviously keeps you pretty busy.

    I did hear that Georgetown did bump Nolan's $ up after Pensky left Maryland as Maryland was interested in Nolan. Georgetown was able to keep Nolan with that bump in salary. Pensky left Maryland making $101K so Tennessee had to have given him substantially more. Would think UCLA could offer Nolan more than that as well.

    I hope he gets the UCLA gig as he is a good coach, good guy, and he deserves an opportunity like this. Makes a lot of sense and he would do well there.
     
  11. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Just wanted to point out that Georgetown is in the Big East. In the ACC, most of the schools would've been willing/able to counter UT's bid, but Maryland was/is broke (and now they're in the Big Ten, so try blaming the conference now), trying to give every dime to football (the pointy kind), and has an administration that makes everyone else look like MENSA candidates by comparison.
     
  12. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006

    UCLA's history isn't that they have gone for the big paycheck to entice soccer coaches.only one that I can think of had previous D1 head coaching experience.

    And their listed salaries aren't appreciably higher in an area that has one of the highest cost of living indexes in the country.

    The SEC doesn't pay soccer coaches any better than the ACC, despite how much more they make in pointy ball. There is no trickle down economics in play.


    The economics of the New Big East are different than of the old BIG East. The Catholic seven will have a bit more money to spread around.


    And many top coaches suplement their College stipends with either club or Camp gigs, starting with Anson on down. And one thing people are ignoring is how much a shoe or apparel contract can get a coach, and which schools are magnets for those deal and allow the coach to keep that money.
     
  13. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Uh . . . neither of these statements are all that accurate. Obviously Tennessee walked in and simply bought an ACC head coach. Georgia and Alabama have made similar moves (off the top of my head, there are probably others), meanwhile there are NO ACC woso coaches who came out of BCS conference head jobs. So, the SEC is paying more - or at least generally willing to outbid other schools for a coach they want.

    As far as the Big East, whether more money trickles around, Georgetown is notoriously cheap when it comes to non-rev sports. Even their track program, a traditionally strong one, got the budget shaft recently. I predict any revenue increase goes right into men's b-ball (with Title IX requiring a small tithe to women's b-ball).
     
  14. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    That the SEC buys ACC coaches and The ACC promotes assistants or gets folks from the boondocks isn't exactly the truth either.

    Yeah, Tennessee brought in the Maryland coach from a sports program that declared itself Bankrupt and was cutting sports left and right.

    Alabama got the Clemson coach, which strikes me as bottom feeding.

    And Georgia's coach is listed as being the Former head coach at Auburn. That's a lateral move within the conference.

    That leaves about 12 coaches who were either assistants or came from places like Berry College or Hardin-Simmons, not the ACC.

    And the traffic from other BCS schools to the ACC is also evident.

    And I think you are forgetting Church at Duke, who came from Vanderbilt, where he got to the SEC semis both years he coached there. Vanderbilt thinks they are BCS.

    I'd include at Wake's coach, who came from USD where he got West region and WCC coach of the year accolades in a year when 2 other wcc teams were in the final four. Not technically a BCS conference, but it's above most BCS conferences in women's soccer.

    Virginia's Swanson came from Stanford, where his 2002 team was ranked #1 in the nation going into the tournament. last I heard they are a BCS program.


    There just isn't any difference in the overall hiring practices of the two conferences, either in where they came from or the listed salaries of coaches at the public schools. That they are about even in poaching from each other's conferences is evidence of it.
     
  15. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    You are normally a very respected poster. This time you are incorrect in a few instances.
    Bottom-feeding isn't exactly accurate are Clemson was fresh off an Elite 8.
    UGA poached FSU's Baker a few years ago before.
    Vanderbilt is hardly SEC financially and that was many years ago before the crazy money.
    Using Berry and Hardin-Simmons as examples of today's salaries is ironic since both of them would be the ACC's highest paid coach.
    Penske, Bramble and Baker came from the top tier of the ACC to the SEC in recent years. There no examples of coaches going the other way. You can argue why the caliber of coaching in the ACC is better but it's not money.

    SEC is considerably higher on salary and budget. Do some homework and you will see. Obviously not a region you are as familiar with. Your examples are way off and not relevant as they were many years ago (13, 21 and 20 to be exact.)
     
  16. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Sec soccer coaching salaries
     
  17. soccerd

    soccerd New Member

    Feb 3, 2013
    van down by the river
    UCF Cromwell to UCLA and heard Hoppa from Auburn wants to go back to her alma mater
     
  18. 6peternorth9

    6peternorth9 Member

    Nov 15, 2012
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Cromwell is in at UCLA. CP from SMU was the 2nd choice. Nolan was behind those two. She'll do well there.
     
  19. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I sure wish some games were being played, so we can talk about something important, but here goes...

    I'll concede Clemson, But Bramble isn't probably the best example you could have brought up. Its a question so far that he is a top coach. He was 8-9-2 last season ( his fifth) and 3-8-2 in conference. He has one winning season and one tournament appearance for Alabama( 10-8-2 that year) he doesn't have a winning record in his tenure there. I didn't check his history because I didn't have him on my radar as a top SEC coach. To make that list, they generally need winning records. Maybe SEC standards are different.

    Let's stick with where coaches from the current list. You can't dismiss current ACC coaches as their hiring being too long ago and then go back a generation in your examples. But I'll do more on Baker below.

    However inconvenient to you it may be, it meets the criteria of an ACC school poaching an SEC coach from the list of incumbents, and as embarrassing as it may be to you, they are an SEC school, last I checked. And since he made the SEC semis both his years there, it's certainly as relevant as , say, the Pensky hire.


    Nevertheless, however ironic, they weren't hired from the ACC. They weren't even D1 coaches. They weren't hired from a BCS program, which was the original claim I was addressing. If you wish to say I was wrong, at least address what I said.

    Their current salaries are due to their longevity, and in Burleigh's case, a National Title. That usually gets you some leverage. Neither was particularly well paid when hired, and neither matches the salary of the highest paid coach in the ACC. TAMU is a little irrelevant, as he wasn't an SEC hire anyway. He came to the conference with the Football baggage.

    I talked about Bramble.

    I already gave the Vanderbilt example. Hirings go both ways.

    Baker, besides not being a current SEC coach, is now at his fourth or fifth gig, depending on how you count. He's now at Florida Atlantic, which hardy makes him the poster boy for superior SEC coaching and Salaries. There are other reasons for his pelagic nature. My understanding is that he is pretty high maintenance. When he left FSU he stated in an ESPN interview that it was because Georgia gave him a five year guaranteed contract, which FSU wasn't willing to do. He didn't mention a big raise. He left Georgia when that contract expired and wasn't renewed, but not before firing his staff the year before. Then he wandered West to Cal as associate head coach when they had their own coaching nightmare and that rewarded him handsomely with the FAU job. I notice he didn't get another SEC gig.

    As I said before, Pensky left a moribund athletic program, which had to leave the ACC for financial reasons. I'm not convinced that reflects on the conference in regard to women's soccer. I see his announcement came on January 28, which is well after Maryland announced for the B1G, so you can call it that conference's issue. I'll leave that for ACC folks to decide. If you make allowances for Vandy, you must for Maryland.


    Do the homework yourself. You are making the claim, which I see no evidence for. Post the top five salaries for each conference. You might be surprised.
    The fact that those ACC coaches have been there so many years just proves the SEC doesn't have the resources, or more likely, the will to hire them away. If the salary offers we're substantially higher, Wouldn't they leave? When Swanson leaves Virginia for the SEC then maybe you have a point. Until then, he helps my case, not yours. He' a BCS coach who had a #1 ranked program and then went to the ACC, not the SEC.

    So your examples don't exactly hold up to scrutiny for the claim that the SEC can hire away top ACC coaches. The top SEC coaches came from other, mostly pedestrian, pedigrees. The SEC isn't throwing gobs of money out there to hire the best ACC coaches. Last I heard, Swanson, Krikorian, Dorrance, and the others haven't jumped ship.
     
  20. devad

    devad Member

    Nov 18, 2012
    You are knowledgable about soccer but would make a horrible lawyer. Your arguments make no sense and are all over the place.

    The discussion is on whether SEC coaches make more money and have bigger budgets PRESENTLY than ACC coaches.

    How are the hiring practices from 20 years ago relevant? Whether Bramble was a good hire or how many jobs Baker has been at are isn't relevamt either. And just because SEC coaches make more money doesn't mean every ACC coach would leave. You are using the logic that because Dorrance hasn't left UNC as proof that ACC coaches make as much money is an awful argument.

    No one is saying SEC coaches are better or even have better jobs. Or that all ACC coaches should leave. I'm simply saying that SEC coaches make more money on average and have bigger budgets. A list of all revenues and expenses for Divison 1 schools is readily accessible. Of the top 20 athletics budgets in the country, 10 (out of 14 SEC schools) are from the SEC. 1 is from the ACC. If you don't think that trickles down to Women's Soccer or other sports I don't know what to tell you.

    3 coaches in recent years have left ACC schools for SEC jobs. The 3 coaches went to a Final 4 (Baker), Elite 8 (Bramble) and a national #1 seed and the National Coach of the Year (Penske) at their previous school. No Coach has gone the other way in 13 years. Surely you see how this is relevant to our discussion.
     
  21. StevenLa

    StevenLa Member

    Jan 27, 2010
    Atlanta
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The SEC pays more in all their sports. It is a fact, end of story. Isn't the bigger news Cromwell to UCLA?
     
  22. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    I thought people were waiting for some confirmation before going all in - haven't seen any confirmation yet.

    Honestly, if it does happen, what does that do to jobs in the southeast? Will Cromwell leaving spin the carousel or does Fister (or the guy, I don't know his name) step in . . . and how did Petrucelli get in there ahead of Nolan? And is UCLA going to pay a real premium or could this end up like it did on the guy's side where a guy ended up back in Florida after a year or two (I'm sure Clive or someone will fill in the facts on that for me ;)
     
  23. tigersocfan

    tigersocfan New Member

    Apr 12, 2013
    missouri
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    So its cromwell for sure? My sources have said it was CP's if he wanted it. so maybe he turned it down.
     
  24. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    I'm all over the place? I didn't bring uP Baker. You did. He's not even an ACC or an SEC coach.

    Then why did you name Baker?

    It's a catalog on how the CURRENT TOP coaches got their jobs, and the failure of the SEC to hire them away.

    You claimed top ACC coaches are being hired by the SEC.

    They aren't.

    The top ACC coaches are where they have been for quite a while. The ones you names aren't the top SEC coaches, even.


    Now show that some of that money goes to women's soccer.

    I don't. Tell me you have researched it and come up with the budget numbers on coaching salaries in the SEC. Don't guess that because football churns money that soccer sees any of it. Some SEC programs lose money even with the huge TV money. They aren't all on the list of the 22 programs in the country that show a profit from football.

    Not really. First, MARYLAND left in the outcry to make money, Pensky left the program after they said they were going to the B1G. There are dynamics there that really didnt have anything to with SEC gobs of money buying ACC coaches.

    Baker, besides not being an SEC coach, is a flake. He doesn't prove a trend for anything other than some AD's will hire anyone.

    And....BAKER IS NOT AN SEC COACH...unless I missed a relevant FAU announcement.

    Don't tell me again I'm all over the map when you keep using him. He has nothing to do with the current coaches in either conference.
     
  25. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

    Jul 4, 2000
    Upper 90 of nowhere
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Pensky went when UT offered him a salary increase UMD wouldn't match. Came before the B1G thing, btw.

    http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/apr/22/penskys-deal-richer-than-maryland-ex-coach/

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...for-tennessee/2012/01/26/gIQAcGfaUQ_blog.html
     

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