(2012.06.12) FIFA World Cup Qualifier: Australia x Japan [R]

Discussion in 'Japan' started by OneiroPhobia, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Uchida is no loss. Sakai is better.

    Konno and Kurihara aren't much of a loss either as a Yoshida-Inoha pair is probably similar strength. Or maybe Zac will do the improbable and call-up Tulio, but one can only hope.
     
  2. sc-f

    sc-f Member+

    May 23, 2009
    Club:
    SC Freiburg
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan


    Highlight of the match. Tells the whole story.
     
  3. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    I saw nothing that could support your claim. Uchida was screwed by the ref and Zach didn't want to risk him with a yellow. Other than that he went forward and defended well.
     
  4. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    The problem I have with Uchida is that he's solid, but unspectacular.

    He's consistent, but rarely has one of those really good games where he changes the flow of the match. Right now I think that Japan needs players that can have a larger impact on the match, if you want to play cautious then Uchida maybe your man, but if you want to take risks then you go with Sakai.

    Put it this way, I've never seen a match with Uchida where I have said to myself "If he wasn't here then the result would have been different". I've said that to myself several times after watching Sakai play.
     
  5. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    I thought that Sakai was the prototype of an unspectacular player. Big strong guy, fast, smart, does his job. He has a great cross but his move his caricatural and takes some time to make, I wonder if the defenders will ever find out.

    As you said Sakai has looked great some matches but Uchida plays for Schalke 04 and he fights every week against good competition. I wouldn't trade his experience for the Sakai experiment ... yet. Maybe after Ucchi has a really bad match.
     
  6. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Sakai has those matches where he utterly dominates the right side of the pitch and puts in cross after cross. He's a threat off set pieces and is much better than Uchida in terms of winning balls in the air. For me it's really a no-brainer, the only thing he lacks right now is experience.

    But perhaps we are getting ahead of ourselves as it is entirely possible that Komano may start instead of Sakai. I feel that Komano is definitely better getting forward than Uchida is and maybe on par or a bit below in terms of defensive ability.
     
  7. marten48

    marten48 Member

    Jun 2, 2012
    United States
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Cahill did well heading the ball down to set up other players, but yeah I agree that the our defenders did a decent enough job coping with him. I thought Kurihara and Konno were fine overall. They put were under a lot of pressure because the likes of Hasebe kept giving the ball away cheaply in midfield. You also have to give Australia credit for playing some bright attacking football at times. Unfortunately, all of this was overshadowed by the ridiculously bad officiating.
     
  8. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    hehe, we'll see what happens in Bundesliga this season with our sidebacks ;)
    I reckon that Sakai has maybe more potential than Uchida.
    But as I said many times, Zac values international experience heavily, and you will still see this in his lineups.
     
  9. nakata101

    nakata101 Member

    Mar 2, 2008
    Maya should be recover from injured after 3 month for the next match...
     
  10. teioh

    teioh Member+

    Apr 17, 2012
    The most ridiculous pk I've ever seen since the last Asian Cup (Japan-Siria if I remember correctly).
    Nice to note that even with this ref, this pitch and our lack of Yoshida (lol) we deserve to win (imo) and at last we didn't lost.
     
  11. Whispered11

    Whispered11 Member+

    U.C. Sampdoria
    Japan
    Oct 4, 2011
    Munich, Germany
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
  12. SugarDaddySean

    Feb 12, 2011
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought Uchida outshined Nagatomo, I don't know what it is with Japan but they actually prefer to play through Uchida and not Nagatomo. And Uchida does a great job in an attacking role, except for his finishing not that he had clear cut chances or anything but he could do better to get it on frame and fore a save. Im not crazy about Kiroki Sakai, I think people are mesmerized by his size and strength but he's a man among boys in the J-League in many ways, when he gets his feet wet in the Bundasliga well evaluate where he truly is.

    Right now Ill take Uchida over Sakai, Uchida has been playing very well offensively and defensively. The ref cheated Uchida and Japan with that penalty call and yellow for Uchida...the game really was in hand until that happened...and if that dent happen I feel nobody would've even brought Uchida up who IMO had a very strong game until that point then had to come off.
     
  13. nsato

    nsato Member

    Oct 11, 2009
    We don't need our outside backs doing anything spectacular. Most of the opponents counter attacks come because we have no true holding midfield and because Nagatomo tries to do something he doesn't have to. Uchida's availability going forward and build up from the back in unreal. The only thing I'm worried about him is his fcuk ups from lack of concentration. Sakai at the moment will be found at the top level.
     
  14. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I don't get this argument that Sakai will found out a higher level and the argument that he's a big fish in a small pond.

    How do you guys know if he's never had the opportunity? Isn't that true for every single Japanese player before they play for the NT or has gone to Europe. Anyone who thinks that a player will be found out because he plays in the J-League and not Europe is desperate to down play the abilities of that player because they have no other reasons to support their claims.

    Because it's impossible for a player to play well for the NT if they play in the J-League right? Do you really think that Uchida is infinitely better now than when he played in the J-League? He did not get better per say, he was just able to transfer his form in Japan to Germany. Nothing else changed. He still plays exactly the same way that he did when he played for Kashima.
     
  15. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Depending on the match, yes we do. Nagatomo was spectacular in the Asian Cup Final and was probably the most effective offensive force throughout the tournament.

    You can't always rely on the same players to perform every single match. If Honda or Kagawa are having a bad game then we need someone else to step-up. Nagatomo is one of the players who can step-up, but Uchida is not. I feel that Sakai can have a similar impact that Nagatomo does.
     
  16. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    Never said that. There's just no reason to replace Uchida at the moment, he's playing good football and he's more proven. It's as simple as that. I like Sakai as much as you do.
     
  17. Blue-San

    Blue-San Member+

    Jun 21, 2011
    Club:
    Kashima Antlers
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Saito aint fat :cautious:


    Also I would put my bet on Kiyotake and Kakitani, call me the fortuneteller once it is confirmed :cool:
     
  18. nsato

    nsato Member

    Oct 11, 2009
    I don't think Kiyotake will be found out at the highest level. You seriously think Uchida didn't get better since they left J League? His style is still the same but he's a much better player.

    Edit: I also think Miyaichi will be/have been found out so it has nothing to do with the league they play in.

    I don't disagree with this but there are 6-7 players that should be doing spectacular things before outside backs. My point is that being a match winner should not be a way to choose an outside back.
     
  19. SugarDaddySean

    Feb 12, 2011
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well if there is no clear better player the edge goes to the player who plays in the better league. No matter the situation, this is what Coach Zac implemented himself. So if you want an answer you should track him down.. To me its a no brainer, I think the guys that take the chance and play in the better leagues are likely better players and mentally stronger and have more experience.

    About him not having the opportunity, ya you're right. He hasn't had the opportunity yet since he's so young. And thats why Zac doesn't play him as a starter because he's still too young and inexperienced. Spots are earned not given, a young player with a bunch of hype will not be given a spot unless he is the no doubt best player, that is not the case with Sakai. This has more to do with Uchida and less to do with Sakai. Uchida is the man he's been the man for year now, he's played in the WC and with Schalke for the same amount of time Sakai his been in J-league 1st Division.

    Besides, Uchida is not the problem so replacing him would make little difference in the game. The reason Japan couldn't capitalize was mostly because of their bad finishing in the final third...Maeda, Okazaki and Kagawa all had sub par games near goal. While Endo and Hasebe provided little from the CM spots..Uchida did his part and was one of the best players on the pitch till that suspect penalty called against him.

    A J-leaguer will almost never be chosen over a player that plays abroad. Thats the way it is, thats the way it should be. Every player in the J-league should strive to challenge themselves and move to Europe to better their game, there are rare cases when a player stays and will be a JNT star like Endo. But for the most part look at the best players for the team in the past years that all played in Europe...Shunsuke Nakamura, Hidetoshi Nakata, Honda, and now Kagawa...im sure there are many other players people can ring off. But these guys were/are true stars and all pushed themselves in Europe and probably its not a coincidence that they all went to Europe.
     
  20. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    No Uchida did not get better, he was already good enough to play in the Bundesliga and all he did was transfer his form from Kashima to the Bundesliga. You really think that he just magically became better once he got to Schalke? That makes no sense, players don't magically get better once they change leagues.

    In my opinion, Sakai is a Bundesliga level player playing in the J-League. He is not going to suddenly get better when he transfers to Hannover.
     
  21. SamuraiBlue2002

    SamuraiBlue2002 Member+

    Dec 20, 2008
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Why?

    Why should Zac use NT selection to push some kind of stupid life mantra upon players? Why does challenging oneself mean going to Europe? You're telling me that its impossible to challenge oneself within Japan? Let's get to the basic question, why should a player want to challenge themselves in the first place? What if they enjoy football because they find it fun and relaxing? I think that problem is that you're equating club progression with NT progression and that is a mistake.

    It is entirely possible to help the NT by staying in Japan and developing there. Look at all the failed projects in the past. Did it help the NT when Mizuno went to Celtic and wasted several years when he was tipped to be a future star? Because of his move Japan lost one its most promising wingers at the time. There's no doubt that Mizuno could have been one of the stars of today's team.

    I'm not saying that a player shouldn't go to Europe. What I'm saying is that players should sometimes take a step back a carefully evaluate their position before making boneheaded moves for some stupid cause like "challenging ones self".
     
  22. Kigai

    Kigai Member

    Jul 18, 2006
    Tokyo, Japan
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I think its fine if a footballer does not want to challenge himself, but for a player with such mentality, he doesn't need to be on a national team. If he represents Japan in front of the world the player should have certain qualities.

    There is a challenge ceiling in J-league, so a player can challenge himself only to the extent that ceiling allows. However, that player will eventually reach the J-league ceiling and only by going to Europe will they be able to go past that ceiling and challenge themselves even further.

    I don't know how you cannot think that Uchida did not improve since his Kashima days. His anticipation of the game, teammates, opposing players, first touch, have all improved. It had to have improved because he went to the bench during part of the season and had to earn his way back.
     
  23. KATO

    KATO Member

    Nov 26, 2011
    Manchester
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Uchida looked really solid last night (Better than Nagatomo IMO) and with Sakai breathing down his neck, he's stepped up a level for the JNT. Sakai was pretty vulnerable when he came on though. Last night showed Zach doesn't trust Havenaar yet, we looked tired in the last ten minutes or so.
     
  24. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    it's not about trust. It's that Havenaar has no defensive capabilities, while Maeda has a lot. It's very simple. You will never see him get in the game unless Maeda is doing bad AND we're losing.
     
  25. KATO

    KATO Member

    Nov 26, 2011
    Manchester
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    I know a lot of people are gonna disagree with me, but I thought Maeda wasn't doing that well, Ogenovski and Neill were all over him. Take into account the Asian Cup final and Maeda's struggled to put in more than a decent shot against Aussie defence in over 2 hours of football.

    I feel that a player like Maeda shouldnt play alone up front against a team like Australia, but I guess at the end of the day Zach wasnt really focused on a win away from home.
     
    Whispered11 repped this.

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