2011 Sudamericano Sub20 (R)

Creo que lo unico rescatable del sudamericano sub 20, es haberle ganado a Peru, jugando a estadio casi lleno. La gente lleno el estadio para puro "linchar " a los jugadores chilenos, y aun asi Chile aguanto el "chaparron" en el primer tiempo y en el segundo lo liquido. SI hubieramos perdido con Peru, Vaccia mejor que ni volviera a Chile.

 

There are no coaches in Chile everyone is maybe too old and has passed their time. If the U17 do well this group with the staff should carry forward to the next U20 tourny as Sulantany did before back and that turned out well.

 

Well my friend, for your knowledge and perspective, when Sulantay asumed to be coach of the succesful under 20 NT, we all know and talk about, it was Cesar Vaccia who first worked with those boys when they were younger, only that under his command nothing great happened, but they got to be known and afterwards nominated in the under 20 NT, that went to the 2005 and 2007 WCs. If Vaccia would have never considered them, many of them probably would be doing anything else, except playing Football.

 

this is true....i'm not sure if its the best generation to use as comparisson though, because it seems (to me at least) that they're somewhat special.

you're talking about guys like Mati, Vidal, Vidangossy, Carmona, Alexis....whom were 'differentes' in all regards....

Maybe Vaccia could be more successful with younger teams, but i can't see a reason for giving him the next U20

 

yeah, there are always new dudes coming up...

but the 09-11 generation is waaaay below the 05-07 kids

 

i'd say as a combined whole and on an individual level these past two U20's have nothing on the 05-07 guys.....

Firstly, there are at least 3-4 elite players from the 05-07 squads--> Alexis, Vidal, Medel, Isla, Mati(?), are 'diferentes'....

In the 09-11 generation there aren't any guys that seem to be at that talent level.

then you add the secondary talent the 05-07 guys had:
- Carlitos Villanueva
- Pedro Morales
- Carlos Carmona
- Gonzalo Jara
- Fernando Menesez...
- Hans Martinez
- Cristopher Toselli
- Christian Suarez
- Nery Veloso
- Matias Vidangossy
- Gerardo Cortes



In the last two you have talented guys that might work out, but it seems to me the skill level just isn't there. The best are:

- Edu Vargas
- Paulo Maghalaes
- Carlos Labrin
- Marco Medel
- Charles Aranguiz
- Bryan Carrasco
- Felipe Gallegos
- Jose Luis Silva
- Cesar Pinares


I don't see more that one or two of these guys (probably Medel and maybe Pinares/Labrin) playing for a competitive team in europe....

 

I like the look of our fullbacks and wingers. It seems the future of our NT will have to be based on speed... we just need a good 9 to develop this game. Pinilla will be the transition between Suazo and whoever comes next...but who? WHO?

I'd also like to discuss the production of a new type of player that seems to be the future of football... what here in Europe people are calling the 'Central Winger'.

We all know the classic '10' is dead. Mainly because of the strength of the modern defensive midfielders who can easily nullify the most talented classic creators, forwards or 'Trequartistas' and in turn safely create from deep. The Makaleles and Pirlos of this world.

The response to this is the 'central winger'. Ozil is an example, he owned England playing this way... Wesley Sneijder does this also. These players have a default starting position in the middle of the pitch, but they can make diagonal runs and create room for fast fullbacks to sneak into the back-line of the opposition. Or if they want they can move and receive out wide and create from there, a few meters away from the marking of the defensive mid.

Matias and even Isla can fit this role perfectly as they have the speed to move all across the pitch and make perfect crosses. Bielsa allowed some of these movements with Chile. But didn't explore this enough IMO.

Ok, so this sort of thing is not new, Pavel Nedved used to do this ages ago in Juventus, but what I am saying is that this seems to be the trend and I think we should look into this, because we have the players and speed to play this game. We can pick up where Bielsa left of. My main reason to push this idea forward though, is a guy called Alexis who plays this role perfectly in Udinese, feeding Di Natale, interacting with the fullback runs, making crosses of his own and making runs into the box when possible. The movements he makes allow Zapata and Isla pass the living room and into the kitchen.

Yes...I know there is Barcelona. I haven't forgotten about Xabi, but you must also remember Xabi does not play alone. A good deal of his ability to cope with the defensive mids is his ability to bounce of the ball with Iniesta and Messi who always offer options and some air. Actually now that I think of it, Iniesta sort of plays this central winger role, as it is not uncommon to see him receiving the ball out wide, away from the markings of rival defensive mids.

I'm just saying its something we should look into a bit more. Do not limit the middle creative role to the centre of the pitch. We have the players to pull this off. Specially Alexis who could become a world class player very soon.

 

Agreed on that Vaccia should work with a much younger team maybe look out for a U15 to bring into as a U17.......

The "mixture" includes some leftovers from 2001 U20 but I dont see any from 2003, this group I would booked until Copa America 2015, this group of players we all are talking about should stick thru together thick and thin until then at least, then dip into the "B" pool of players which is where the 2009/11 U20 squad of players need to start for future leading up to the WCQ starting in 2016 ..... then again there is no Bielsa and the new DT may or may not do this and just re-design the whole structure and team and not look into keeping this type of idea, if this is what it is. The pool is over crowding and for the better which is why the "B" team right is doing so well.

05-07 kids barly qualified for WYC in 2007/Canada and 2005/Netherlands but they did make it by goal differences regardless, no question of how they are successful now because of their performance back in the WYC's and consistency in club level play also afterwards. As for the 09-11 era both sqauds failed in getting into the WYC with the '11 squad closer in making the final group, there are players as mention above that need to prove themselves and that takes time in playing with the "B" team first (again only if the new DT deceide to do such a thing), for example Mancilla.

Limiting on selecting players should not be based on only if the player played for any of the youth teams at any point during his career, I'm sure there is a Suazo type of player for the future but I dont see Pinilla becoming the transition he may be the mix with becoming his backup (its better then being left out).

What I would be looking out for and into is for a sweeper.

 

Work with them probably, but never in charge of any team, or else we`ll see them fail once more.

Yes, but once again your making the same mistake. You can`t compare the players under Vaccia, as to be the same as under Sulantay.
Sulantay is lots more smart at the moment he must stand a team, while Vaccia will try out all sort of schemes, but he will fail the same. I would almost bet that Sulantay with these kids, would have achieved great results, and if the former group would have been under Vaccia, we never would have gone neither to the 2005 WC, nor the 2007 WC as well.

In time a new striker will come, but now today we don`t have it yet. Fortunately Suazo is still playing as if he were in heaven, so we could have confidence that in the inmediate time, he will score and lead the team for us.
Coming from behind, both Paredes and maybe Mancilla, appear as his substitutes, but Pinilla, as in the past, plays 3 or 4 games at a top level and injures himself afterwards for 10 games or for the whole rest of the season. He is the same weak guy as always, as his "injuries", really reside within his head (psychologically speaking), and till now, only has proven that in lower level teams, he can score. In the big leagues or at NT level, he has lots to prove, as he is in debt till now. With him around, you can`t really trust, that he`ll be available, if you ever need a man at the front of the team.

Anyhow, if you ask me, this last issue is off-topic here, and should be discussed in the adult NT topics, as anyone of the before mentioned players have long ago left the under 20 category.

 

its unfortunate but this is true of almost all of our players....

Its hard to read about Mark, Valdivia, Pinilla, and even Chupete without it being a 50% chance of a new injury

 

Look Rickdoggydog, all players around the world will always have someone who has trained them in the past before reaching any new heights with any new trainer or coach. Giving so much credit to Vaccia is just too much and I am sure none of the players will not forget who they are and where they came from, but its the players themselves in the end that get the job done on the field lets not take that away from the players, not that you are not.

Now with VHC as the new named coach of the U20 he should and I would imagine that he is going to be looking at the U17 in Ecuador very close.

Is there going to be a team in the MILK CUP and in the Toulon Hopefuls Tournament? Over the last couple years or so the teams that have played there has always made a good look for a brighter future in finding or maintaining current players.

 

fcuk them then....didn't we win this little thing last year without Bielsa?

 

no, you didnt.. last year chile finished 4th!

 

I have too heard in the news that he is the next one. No other names
have come up in the meantime. I really dont get why Basey was replacement for Vaccia in the first place.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Toulon_Tournament
No way unfortuantely. The teams are confirmed since november.

 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7o_3mQ_dEo"]YouTube - Cea mai tare simulare din fotbal[/ame]

Pretty bad...

 

Carrasco can't be doing that in Italy he needs to be smarter then that because doing that kind of act will not get you anywhere.

 

I don`t want to appear as stimulating bad sportsmanship among football, but from time to time, even if they aren`t plausible plays, someone finds new ways to make cheats on the game. To me, Carrasco´s fault is a moment of genious, although completely anti sportsmanship behaviour, as he tried to get out with something that was never seen before. If it not were to the multiple presence of cameras around the pitch, he could have easily come out with it and probably the opponent could have come out carded with it.

This reminds me of Suarez`s cheat during the WC, which although it meant him the red card, it gave his team the possibility to get the tickets to the semifinals and the exclussion of whom most regarded it, for what happened in the pitch. Suarez`s play in that last minute against Ghana, was the "supreme cheat" of all times and completely against all known sportsmanship among footballers.

 

Same with the hand of God. In Carrasco case Chile needed to get possesion quick with time running out which in the end it did.