2011-12 CONCACAF Champions League qualifiers/news

Discussion in 'CONCACAF Champions Cup' started by Paul Calixte, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey everyone,

    The reason behind this thread being started now is that tomorrow, the semi-finals of the US Open Cup will be played, DC United vs. Columbus at 7:30pm EST, and Seattle Sounders vs. Chivas USA at 10:00pm EST - MLSSoccer.com says that both of the home teams will be livestreaming their respective game on their websites (lined to their name), although it states that the Seattle-Chivas game starts at 10 and that the webcast starts at 10:30pm. :confused:

    This particular tournament (a primer is available in the next message for those not familiar with it) is also the reason behind the name for the thread; since CONCACAF said from the start that it would look at reconfiguring the CCL after three years, after their Assembly meeting in October we'll find out what changes they made, whether only in the allocation of qualifying spots, or possibly to the format itself. With that in mind, we'll keep up a list of the qualifiers according to the current allocation system, but with an asterisk - at least there will only be two teams qualified under the status quo (the U.S. Open Cup champion and, most likely, the MLS Supporter's Shield winner) before the changes are set in stone.

    So the path to international glory - two years from now - begins...

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    P.S. for the US Open Cup: the oldest surviving competition in American sports, it is a knockout tournament a la FA Cup that has been contested since 1914. In its current form (rumored to be in line for changes in the near future), teams from all of the lower divisions in the US (Division-II, USL2, PDL and USASA amateurs) play 1-game knockout rounds until there are only eight left standing - oftentimes the pairings are based on geographic proximity. At this point, they are joined by the 6 best US-based MLS teams (by definition, Toronto FC can't play in the Open Cup; ditto Montreal, Vancouver and Puerto Rico) from last year's regular season, along with two MLS qualifiers left over after the other teams play knockout games amongst themselves.

    At this point, the eight lower-division teams each get paired up with an MLS opponent in the Round of 16, from which point the tournament progresses until a champion is crowned.

    Ok, so that's the tournament itself, but don't bother asking me how they choose who hosts each game. Simply put, Uncle Jack would be proud of what US Soccer came up with. :eek:
     
  3. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    I don't know about others, but I would have no interest in the U.S. Open Cup if it didn't have a CCL berth.

    It's the responsibility of the US Federation to keep fans informed. Even if they are anticipating drastic changes to the CCL (maybe an unfortunate return to the CCC?), there should at least be a contingency plan for the expected CONCACAF scenarios, which can't be too many.

    At least in Belize and Nicaragua's case, you know that their champions will go to the CCL if they pass a stadium inspection. At the very least, the US Fed can inform fans in a similar way. In other words, they should tell us the berth formats for each given CONCACAF scenario that would arise from the October meetings. That's not hard to do, especially if you're getting paid to do so.

    What it looks like here, is that the US Fed is waiting to see what teams will be strong next year. The CONCACAF should have set a deadline for members to reveal their berth formats. How can a fan properly watch tonight's semifinals if they don't know what's at stake?

    I wonder what the coaches of tonight's semifinalists think of all this mess. This is like watching the ALCS without knowing if its winner would go to the World Series or not. Ridiculous.
     
  4. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    An update of the first two qualifying spots for next year's CCL tournament (again, according to how the spots are divvied up right now): in MLS, the LA Galaxy still lead the league with 43 points. But with eight games left to go in the regular season, the Columbus Crew, Real Salt Lake, New York Red Bulls and FC Dallas are all within six points of them, so indications are that the Supporter's Shield race will go down to the wire.

    Meanwhile, Columbus went to RFK Stadium and tore DC United's heart out with a 2-1 win in overtime, and the Seattle Sounders just beat Chivas USA 3-1 at home. So on October 5, Seattle will play Columbus in the US Open Cup Final at Qwest Field. From a cynical standpoint, this is really good news for the Open Cup; surely Seattle's presence will make CONCACAF think twice about agreeing to take away the CCL spot for the winner.
     
  5. winster

    winster Member

    Jul 7, 2008
    Club:
    Besiktas JK
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Columbus could conceivably win through all three qualification routes (Supporter's Shield and both cups). We could see some interesting runner up and 2nd runner up scenarios. Does the USSF say Columbus qualified via the League (MLS Cup or Supporters Shield) or that they qualify via the US Open Cup. I'm guessing they'll say Columbus qualified via the US Open Cup and give the 4th spot to one of the MLS Cup semifinalists instead of to Seattle the Open Cup runner up.
     
  6. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    No, all extra spots go to Supporters Shield runners up. If Columbus wins the Treble, the #2 and #3 Supporters Shield runners up will get CCL berths (unless Columbus' victim in the Cup Final in Toronto is a #2 or #3 SS runner-up, then SS runner up #4 will go).

    I expect stuff like this to happen often. In 2007, New England won the USOC and went to the Cup Final. In 2008, Columbus won the Double. SS runners up got CCL berths both occasions.
     
  7. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And in this case, the beneficiary (Houston Dynamo) went from no Champions League ball the following year, to going straight to the group stages.
     
  8. Cornchops

    Cornchops New Member

    Jan 10, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What happens if/when a Canadian team is MLS Cup champion, runner up, or Supporters' Shield winner?

    Are these qualification methods limited to US teams? If a Canadian team wins, does their slot go to the next Supporters' Shield runner up?

    Would the Canadian team still have to win the Voyageurs Cup?
     
  9. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Simple answer is this:

    Canadian teams can't qualify through MLS. Period.

    Same deal as with Mexican teams in the Libertadores: if a Canadian team were to make it to the MLS Cup Final/win it/win the Supporter's Shield, the spot would get passed down to next highest US-based team according to the regular-season table. And the Canadian MLS champion would still have to win the Voyageurs' Cup the following year (or come in second, should CONCACAF decide to give Canada two spots once Canada gets 6-8 teams up and running) or they would miss out entirely on CCL play.
     
  10. Cornchops

    Cornchops New Member

    Jan 10, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sucks for them.
     
  11. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From Steven Goff (Washington Post):

    Unless MLS is going to make complementary adjustments to the salary cap or concessions to teams playing in international competitions (CCL or Superliga), the MLS teams that qualify for international ball next year are going to have an even worse case of congestion near the middle/end of the year.
     
  12. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    Well, they didn't go straight to the group stages. The Dyanamo clinched an 09-10 CCL berth when the Crew eliminated the Fire in the Eastern Conference Championship. At that point, Houston's berth was at least Preliminary, with the potential to be upgraded to Group Stage status if Columbus won the Cup Final. So there was about 10 days where the Dynamo had a berth, but it wasn't Group Stage just yet.

    I know you're not saying that that league has worse fixture congestion than others, but just in case people misconstrue what you said, I'd just like to point out to them that
    every league in the CONCACAF has the same amount of schedule congestion. No league has it worse than the others (except the Islanders' league during their playoffs).
     
  13. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A short update from the US, under the assumptions mentioned at the beginning of the thread: while the US Open Cup Final between Seattle and Columbus is still two weeks away, this weekend's MLS results (especially the tie between FC Dallas and the Red Bulls) leave the top of the Supporter's Shield standings looking like this:

    LA Galaxy 50
    Real Salt Lake 47
    Columbus Crew 44

    What do they all have in common? Of course, having taken part in this year (2010-11)'s CCL, and still being involved except for the Galaxy. So unless FC Dallas finally figures out how to turn its "undefeated" streak into a "winning" one, or New York cleans house, and those above them stall at the end, the first two CCL spots for the US would go to returning teams.
     
  14. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So hopefully some time this month, we'll get the final confirmation from CONCACAF concerning the allocation of spots for next year's tournament. But with the assumptions listed out in the opening post, tonight we will have our first provisional qualifier for the 2011-12 CCL: at 10:00pm on Fox Soccer Channel, the Seattle Sounders will attempt to become the first MLS team to successfully defend their US Open Cup championship will host the Columbus Crew at Qwest Field.
     
  15. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correction from before, c/o @usopencup (thecup.us):

    So the winner tonight between Seattle and Columbus will, in fact, be the first team to qualify for the next CCL.

    And just speculating based on the uncertainty surrounding the 2011 US Open Cup winner, but it may just be that CONCACAF decides to apply whatever changes it wants to make to the CCL for the 2012-13 tournament and onwards. If so, the least they could do is come out now and say that the qualifiers for 2011-12 will stay the same.
     
  16. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And it will be quite a trend their up against. 5 times an MLS team has defended the Cup in the final, and failed to keep it.
     
  17. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And we now have our first (provisional) qualifier! And it's the same team that topped the list of qualifiers for the current edition of the CCL: the Seattle Sounders managed to overcome having been scored on first, and thanks to two Nyassi goals, they have successfully defended their US Open Cup championship. So we can now begin our list of provisional 2011-12 CCL qualifiers:

    1) Seattle Sounders [USA1, USA3 or USA4]

    Just to point out, the reason behind leaving out the USA2 option for Seattle is that with the number of games they have remaining, they have no mathematical chance of winning the Supporter's Shield. So if they want to upgrade their CCL ticket to "automatic qualifier", the only way would be winning the MLS Cup as well.
     
  18. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Damn, that was quick. Seattle's qualification confirmed by CONCACAF:

    http://www.concacaf.com/page/CL/NewsDetail/0,,12813~2176075,00.html

    LOL :D

    EDIT: I just wanted to add an important, although confusing, paragraph at the very end of the aforementioned article:

    The first sentence looks like a shocker, but after reading it again, I get the vibe that the writer really wanted to say something like "there's three US berths left" or something like that.

    And taking the second sentence at face value, we can now confirm three aspects of the next CCL:

    1) The US will keep its four spots
    2) The MLS Cup winner and the Supporter's Shield winner will still go straight to the group stage
    3) The MLS Cup runner-up will still go to the prelims, along with Seattle (unless the Sounders win the MLS Cup and pass their Open Cup spot down)

    In that case, the only question that's still lingering, with respect to the US, is if both Seattle and the MLS Cup runner-up will still be seeded for the prelims. If CONCACAF decides to demote one of the US's spots, I hope the USSF makes their decision on sporting grounds and gives the one unseeded prelim spot to the US representative that has consistently dropped the ball (and made MLS look bush-league in the process) in CCL play: the MLS Cup runner-up.
     
  19. MidOhioIcer

    MidOhioIcer Guest

    A little confusing. Here it says that there will be only three US team qualifying for the ccl, but then it says four will be coming. It is four right?
     
  20. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    They should seed all 24 teams based on CONCACAF club rankings (as long as the rankings are well researched and unbiased). Put #1 in Group A, #2 in Group B, and so on, allowing for country protection, and tacking on the team's preliminary opponent for those that have preliminary berths.
     
  21. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    An important development in MLS, for those of you that like to track continuity: the LA Galaxy won on the road against the Philadelphia Union tonight, and in so doing have officially put an end to the Columbus Crew's quest for an unprecedented 3rd-straight Supporter's Shield. The Crew's last chance to make the CCL now, on its own merits (no hand-me-downs) is to make the MLS Cup Final; failing that, the Crew will get dropped into Superliga next year.

    Meanwhile, this weekend the New York Red Bulls will host Real Salt Lake. For the former, only a win will keep them in the Supporter's Shield race, while the defending MLS Cup champs can keep themselves within one game of the Galaxy with a win in Harrison. As for FC Dallas, all they need is for the Galaxy to slip up in their next home game against the Colorado Rapids, and Dallas will have its Supporter's Shield chances in its own hands, since the team still has a game against the Galaxy left on its schedule.

    BTW, unless a) Seattle manages a historic collapse and misses the playoffs, or b) SUM finally pulls the plug on Superliga, every MLS team that makes the playoffs this year will get to enjoy some sort of international competition next year.
     
  22. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And now, after the last matchday in the US, only three teams are left in the running for the Supporter's Shield. The LA Galaxy are still four points in the lead, and they'll be playing at home against the Colorado Rapids next Saturday; while RSL and Dallas, 4 and 6 points off respectively, will play each other on the same day. So here are the clinching scenarios: the Galaxy will win the Supporter's Shield, and most likely will qualify straight to the group stages of the next CCL, if...

    - the Galaxy loses vs. Colorado AND Real Salt Lake and FC Dallas tie
    - the Galaxy beats Colorado
    - the Galaxy ties Colorado AND RSL does not win vs. Dallas
     
  23. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    Because of the lack of certainty, I will not watch. If they were certain, I'd watch and maybe patronize their sponsors.
     
  24. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That would put Real Salt Lake three points behind, and I previously posted in an MLS forum that I looked at Wikipedia for the tiebreakers and with head-to-head split Real Salt Lake would have goal differential tiebreaker over Los Angeles. If you think what I said is wrong, tell me why.
     
  25. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My mistake - for some reason, I had a brain fart and thought that the Galaxy were 5 points ahead of RSL. :eek:

    So then, the two scenarios that would see the Galaxy win the Supporter's Shield this weekend are:

    - the Galaxy beats Colorado
    - the Galaxy ties Colorado AND RSL does not win vs. Dallas
     

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