2010 US Open Cup

Discussion in 'US Open Cup' started by VioletCrown, Oct 22, 2009.

  1. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    According to an article on The Cup, we have our first USASA Regional competitor: Milwaukee Kickers.

    Damn. I meant to title this one 'Amateurs'. I remember we ended up with a really long thread last time, and were contemplating separate threads this year. But I forgot. Oh, well.
     
  2. Wingtips1

    Wingtips1 Member+

    May 3, 2004
    02116
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Eastern Pennsylvania starts their Open Cup qualifying this Sunday. The draw for the first two rounds is listed below.

    Round 1
    Game A
    UGH Ultra (home) vs Ukranian Nationals

    Game B
    Plymouth Ultra (home) vs Danubia

    Game C
    Hunter Inazu (home) vs Wallace FC

    Game D
    Intare FC (home) vs Keystone Pride

    Game E
    Fishtown vs Quakertown

    2nd Round--scheduled for 11/8
    1) Phoenix SC (home) vs Game A Winner
    2) Game B Winner (home) vs Game C Winner
    3) Game D Winner (home) vs UGH Majors
    4) VE Majors (home) vs Game E Winner

    Semifinals--schedule for 11/22
    Game 1 Winner vs Game 2 Winner
    Game 3 Winner vs Game 4 Winner
     
  3. Gerrard8

    Gerrard8 New Member

    Oct 22, 2009
    New York
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    would be great to see NY Greek American ATLAS vs NY Pancyprians in the finals of the Eastern NY Region. Two great teams with a great history in this tournament.
     
  4. bright

    bright Member

    Dec 28, 2000
    Central District
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. GIO17

    GIO17 Member

    Nov 29, 1998
    While it's nice to hear what's going on in the State tournaments from USASA qualifying for their Regional Tournament, we should be more concerned about this TOA/USL feud.

    Clubs are already jumping ship from both USL-1st & 2nd to head over to the new breakaway league and we don't know if US Soccer is going to try and settle things down.

    Not trying to be a party pooper guys, but let's get concerned with that part of the US Open Cup involving USL sides and that TOA league.
     
  6. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Agreed.

    I think they should try to model the FA Cup if they can. Like, assuming the current league alignments stand:
    All USL2 and selection of D4/amateur (7+39) teams: 46 to 23
    D2 clubs - USL1 and NASL - (4+7) join the 23 reamining teams: 34 to 17
    MLS Clubs (15) join the 17 remaining teams. Knockout from here on out.
     
  7. CleveGuyOH

    CleveGuyOH New Member

    Aug 11, 2009
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    But that makes sense, so therefore it won't happen anytime soon.
     
  8. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And why exactly does that make sense? SiberianThunderT has the tournament expanded to 72 teams (from 40), with the ameteur sides ballooning from 16 to 39.

    I always chuckle when someone wants to take a tournament, and want to double the size of it (or nearly double), especially when the reason is to make it "look more European."

    I still say that the tournament will max-out at 48 teams, with 32 lower-division teams play a first round, and 16 MLS teams enter in the second.
     
  9. CleveGuyOH

    CleveGuyOH New Member

    Aug 11, 2009
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So don't give AS Many births to amatuer teams. But it seems silly to me that MLS squads have to qualify for the countries open cup.

    ALL MLS, USL-1, NASL, USL-2 teams should be in the tournament proper.
     
  10. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Yeah.... my point was to get all the professional teams in, not necessarily to grow the tournament or make it more "European". MLS have to qualify while all D3 and D2 get in? Seem really awkward to me. Other options could be:

    Round 1: NASL, USL1, USL2, and some D4/amateur (7+4+7+16) - 34 to 17
    Round 2: MLS teams (15) join the remaining 17 - knockout from here on
    Total: 49 teams (close to the 48 suggested)

    Round 1: USL2 and some D4/amateur (7+5) - 12 to 6
    Round 2: MLS, NASL, and USL (15+4+7) join remaining 6 teams - knockout from here on
    Total: 38 teams (seems really restrictive to me at the amateur level, but on the order of the current USOC, and MLS probably won't like being equal to the D2 leagues)

    Rounds 1+2: USL2 and some D4/amateur (7+17) - 24 to 6
    Round 3: MLS, NASL, and USL (15+4+7) join remaining 6 teams - knockout from here on
    Total: 50 teams (I guess I like this option.... though MLS still wouldn't be happy about being treated the same as the D2 leagues. Still like my original idea better)

    [[PS: this one's not gonna happen, though the numbers work out nicely:D]]
    Rounds 1+2: some D4/amateur (12) play down to 3 teams
    Round 3: USL2 teams (7) join 3 remaining team - 10 to 5
    Round 4: NASL and USL1 teams (7+4) join 5 remaining teams - knockout until...
    Round 8: MLS teams (15) join surviving team - knockout from here on
    Total: 39 or 45
    This could be modified, if we use the current USOC format, to add 8 "qualified" MLS teams in round 5. We could also "eliminate" only three MLS teams in qualifying and add the 12 "qualified" MLS teams in round 6. But as I stated earlier, not having all top-division teams compete seems kinda silly to me.


    The porblem as I see it right now with the USOC is MLS is so bigger than the D2 and D3 - it's hard to create a "nice" structure that's compact, doesn't add multiple divisions in the same round, and includes all the pro teams. I still like my original idea, though I do admit it's rather large.
    This will get really nasty if MLS expands enough to get 17 US-based clubs.... >.<'' Good thing that's nowhere in the forseeable future.

    Probably true, though I could also see a first round of just amateur sides, adding D3 and D2 in the second round, and then adding the 16 US-based clubs (though that would probably ride on D3 and D2 expanding a bit more - not much, but a bit).
    But what's your suggestion for this year? :)
     
  11. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And here I was thinking it would be difficult to figure out a reasonable tournament, and I think you've found a nice, simple one. Assuming, of course, the NASL, USL1 and 2 end up with the numbers you're using. It's still really hard to know what they'll have.

    For the D4/amateur, with the NPSL asking for dedicated slots, this can be broken down easily as 8 PDL, 4 NPSL and 4 USASA. That would be a guaranteed slot more than the NPSL got last year (if I remember which team was which correctly).

    For the NASL, you have: Atlanta, St. Louis, Minnesota, Carolina, Miami, Tampa Bay, Baltimore
    For the USL, you have: Cleveland, Austin, Rochester, Portland
    For USL2, you have: Charleston, Charlotte, Western Mass, Harrisburg, Pittsburgh, Real Maryland, Richmond.

    The one problem that I see is that I think this is a minimum we'll see for the NASL and USL1. There is a real possibility that there will be even more teams than that in those two leagues, and not just from cannibalizing the USL2.

    I'm really curious as to how this will all shake out. I still think MLS will only field 8 teams. I agree with you that all the MLS teams should join in, but I doubt it will happen.
     
  12. GIO17

    GIO17 Member

    Nov 29, 1998
    I hate to say this folks. But the way that things are going between the USL, the proposed TOA league (I only say that, because US Soccer hasn't given them the official o.k. to operate) & once again US Soccer has allowed this crap to manifest its self to the boiling point.

    I honestly believe the US Open Cup is in serious jepardy of not being played for this up-coming 2010 season. Don't quote me on this right now, but it's just a bad feeling that has just hit me with these current actions that are going on behind the scenes.

    I hope that's not the case, but at the moment I don't feel good about next season.
     
  13. CleveGuyOH

    CleveGuyOH New Member

    Aug 11, 2009
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I highly doubt the US Open cup will not be played. Will there be any NASL teams in it- that remains to be seen based on sanctioning, but this tournament was held without pro teams for many years, I don't see it being postponed this upcoming season.
     
  14. njndirish

    njndirish Member

    Jul 14, 2008
    Notre Dame, IN
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I still think the top four levels of the pyramid should be entered, followed by the Amateur clubs that finish high up in their regions (champion, runner-up, maybe even 3rd place) to fill in certain gaps. I've never liked the idea that if teams are in a certain position after 4-6 weeks they get a berth.
     
  15. cleazer

    cleazer Member+

    May 6, 2003
    Toledo, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, go figure, scratch Cleveland and Western Mass from the list and we're down to exactly 16 teams. The perfect number.
     
  16. Wingtips1

    Wingtips1 Member+

    May 3, 2004
    02116
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    the US Open Cup will indeed be played this year.

    some of the div 2 teams may not be in it because of everything happening, but the MLS, pdl, and USASA teams will be there.

    State Amateur qualifying already in progress:
    Entries for the 2010 USASA Region I Finals
    New York Pancyprian Freedoms (Eastern NY)
    Phoenix SC (Eastern PA)
    Emigrantes Das Ilhas (Massachusetts)

    Entries for the 2010 USASA Region II Finals
    Milwaukee Kickers (Wisconsin)
    AAC Eagles (Illinois)
     
  17. GIO17

    GIO17 Member

    Nov 29, 1998
    Rochester broke for the TOA league. Western Mass relegated themselves to PDL & USL killed Cleveland.
     
  18. Bebeto/Flacao

    Bebeto/Flacao New Member

    May 23, 2006
    Well,
    USASA has 8 teams in the US Open Cup. WHY SHOULD THEY GIVE UP ANY SPOTS IN THE CUP TO PRO TEAMS OR D3 (PDL) TEAMS.
     
  19. GIO17

    GIO17 Member

    Nov 29, 1998
    What the hell are you talking about? USASA is not losing any spots. PDL teams are not 3rd Division.

    Here is the designations as it currently stands.

    MLS = 1st Division
    USL-1st = Second Division
    USL-2nd = Third Division
    PDL & USASA are the Semi-Pro sides.

    This new league coming in the TOA or NASL is trying to become the new Second Division. Whatever you wrote is very confusing.
     
  20. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, the USL2 officially only has 6 teams. One less than SiberanThunder had in his list. So that helps a little.

    As to Gio's concerns about the Open Cup happening, I can't imagine it. It would be really stupid, and pointless. There's plenty of other teams to play in it, if the USL1-NASL stuff doesn't get resolved. But if I remember right, it took a while for the USSF to announce the arrangement last year, so there's still time.
     
  21. Dave.G

    Dave.G New Member

    Dec 29, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    A thought from across the pond in England.
    You have 16 MLS teams, add say 16 more, Div1 & 2 to make 32 and have 32 others joining them in an open draw for the last 64.
    It may mean an extra round and a few byes but until you get the divisions regulated to exact numbers it will vary greatly each year.
    The Open Cup draw should be made when all constitutions are known for all divisions, sounds simple and I am sure there are loads of reasons why it can't be done but we get hundreds of teams in the FA Cup each year and have preliminary and qualifying rounds to get the numbers down, can you do the same in theory?
     
  22. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    While we have 16 MLS teams and 18 between NASL/USL1/USL2, you have to remember 1 MLS team and (I believe) 3 NASL/USL1 teams are not based in the US and thus can't participate.... Which really complicates matters. I'm hoping at some point the USOC has entries staggared by what level on the pyramid they're from, and every pro team gets in, like other country's domestic cups, but I don't see it happening for 2010.... My impression was most MLS teams are qaulified or are planning on qualification based on last season's results as is usual, and as the first couple posts of the thread had shown, other teams at the lower levels are already into qualification stuffs as well. =-/
     
  23. cleazer

    cleazer Member+

    May 6, 2003
    Toledo, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With Atlanta removing themselves from 2010, we're now down to 15 teams from all of Div 2 and Div 3.

    Who is going to get that remaining 16th spot? A ninth team from MLS or a ninth team from the PDL?
     
  24. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    FYP. Don't forget NY. Both of those teams were just as likely to start this year. And are just as likely to start next year.

    If they do stick to an arrangement that limits the number of MLS teams, I sure hope it's an MLS team that gets that additional spot.

    At this point, it wouldn't be a huge stretch to do something like this, though:

    16 - 15 MLS plus Portland (last year's USL1 regular season winner. I'd've picked a USL1 playoff team, but the final two were both Canadian:))
    16 - Rest of USSF D II plus 2 more from the amateur ranks -- PDL '09 winner Ventura County and '09 Cup best "USASA" finisher Sonoma County Sol.
    16 - 8 PDL + 4 USASA + 4 NPSL.
     
  25. GIO17

    GIO17 Member

    Nov 29, 1998
    Now that the Second Division mess looks to have settled temporarly, we have to start paying attention to the MLS C.B.A situation, but I have to say that whatever the set up will be for 2010, it's fine by me.

    Something tells me that they will stick with what worked last year. But at the moment lets do a quick roll call for the clubs that will be fighting for the 2010 US Open Cup.

    MLS: 15 Clubs CHI, CHV, CLB, COL, DC, DAL, HOU, KC, LA, NE, NY, PHI, RSL, SJ, SEA

    Division II
    NASL: 4 Clubs BAL, CAR, MIA, ST.L
    USL: 5 Clubs AUSTIN, MIN, POR, ROC, TB

    Division III
    USL-2nd Division: 6 Clubs CHA, CHARLESTON, HAR, PIT, REAL MD, RICH

    Semi-Pro/Short Season Development
    8 PDL Clubs (2 per Conference)
    8 USASA Clubs (2 per Region)

    If there will be more clubs added on thru promotion or expansion then we will add them on as the offseason goes. But for right now these are the clubs that will be involved for 2010.
     

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