2010 FIFA World Cup - More Lessons Learned (Héctor Vergara)

Discussion in 'Referee' started by DudsBro, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Watching the Kansas City vs NYRB game last night I saw one AR not do it and the other do it.
     
  2. RichM

    RichM Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Nov 18, 2009
    Meridian, ID
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
  4. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed Member

    Sep 30, 2010
    Bay Area CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Has anybody seen anything in writing from FIFA about holding the flag in your right hand while in the PA? I was just looking through FIFA's LOG and saw nothing in there or on their web site about this. Héctor Vergara says that this is being taught but I can't find it anywhere other then from his satement.
     
  5. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    That's the thing with FIFA they keep these instructions like a big fat secret to all of us and it's quite annoying. We want to know how FIFA wants us to do things but they're not interested in letting us know.
     
  6. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    I have not seen it in writing, but have heard from at least one American FIFA AR that FIFA has instructed ARs to do so.
     
  7. DougO

    DougO Member

    Jan 2, 2001
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have to agree with bluedevils- I took his emphasis differently. This was not throwaway, especially since he said it twice- it was acknowledging the priority, and then going on to make a separate distinction:
    "when we are all expected to get the call right" is not saying fitness and mechanics are ahead of decision-making. Quite the contrary.

    And his point is accurate - presuming good decision-making, consistently correct signaling will differentiate the excellent referee from the merely good referee.
     
  8. Englishref

    Englishref Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    London, England
    I can assure you, you won't be seeing this in the PL any time soon...
     
  9. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Because they disregard FIFA every chance they get? Makes sense why Webb screwed up the Final so hard. OUCH! Score 1 for the Colony :p
     
  10. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Jim Allen addressed this issue today . . . http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/

     
  11. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
  12. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    General Positioning During Play

    Assistant Referee:

    *Flag held straight down and always visible to referee



    ...Apparently they're pointing out that since it's going to be in your right hand...it will be contradicting the Guide to Procedures cause the referee can't see it.
     
  13. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    If the AR is within eighteen yards of the goal, I would say it is extremely likely that the CR is in his half of the field, and on the opposite side, or near the center of the field. The CR should be able to easily see the flag held in either hand from such locations. It doesn't seem very contradictory to me.
     
  14. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Me either...but I don't really care because I've tried both methods. The CR wasn't complaining about not seeing my flag at my side and why would he? I found it was more comfortable to have the flag in my right hand within the 18...if anything that change in position changed my mental state, I knew that my focus was more vital.
     
  15. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    He addressed it, but I wouldn't say he CLARIFIED much. The comments were very wishy-washy and confusing.
     
  16. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I would hazard a guess that FIFA has asked (some?) ARs to try it out and see if it works out better. I would also take it from Jim Allen's answer that it is not (at least not yet) the dictated or expected mechanic from IFAB outside a select group they apparently have trying it out. And I agree with his 4th point -- there is no need to change the mechanic for the purpose of speeding up signals.

     
  17. Englishref

    Englishref Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    London, England
    And yet Darren Cann and Mike Mullarkey were hailed as the best ARs at the WC despite not following FIFA's stupid instructions. Hmmm.
     
  18. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    You call that a comeback? How about how the US couldn't even GET a referee to the world cup? Or how we're constantly trying to do things that are technically correct while missing the entire reason for what we are doing?

    I expected more Englishref....I expected you to make me cry. :eek:
     
  19. Alberto

    Alberto Member+

    Feb 28, 2000
    Northern, New Jersey
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Agreed, Allen left it up to the pre-game preference of each referee. Assuming the normal set up for the running of a diagonal system of control with the AR's running along the right side touch line, I believe the flag is best held in the hand that faces the field, this would normally be the left hand unless you are running backwards along the touchline towards the goal line, then it should be carried in the right hand. With respect to signals does it really matter which arm goes up? The key is making the correct call as quickly as possible.
     
  20. andymoss

    andymoss BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 4, 2007
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I posed this question to a current US FIFA AR:

    So is this official now?

    Saw it at WC and have been doing it myself since; makes a lot of sense.

    But, can I teach it in clinics, bring it up in mentor groups, etc?

    Answer:

    That is the mechanic for CONCACAF and FIFA. The reasoning is that the majority of the signals in that part of the pitch will be with the right hand (esp. offside to avoid blocking one's vision)


    Follow up question:

    Is it going to trickle down anytime soon?

    Answer:

    good question. Would not be problem if you used the mechanic now

    This is NOT the current US FIFA AR who answered my questions:

    [​IMG]
     
  21. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    I may be dense but I don't understand this. How would you block your vision?
     
  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I don't think he did. I think he said (in his part 1) that an AR is off the hook if the R tells him to do this, as he should follow the R's orders but that an assessor would grill the R for the procedure. And in part 2 said it was it was "arguably" prohibited as contradicting proper procedure. While the "arguably" is less than clear, I think it is clear that his view is that this procedure is not currently permissible. And I think his point is that the key is making the correct call -- not making it as quickly as possible.

    (I think he was pointing out that at the highest levels, emphasis is put on signaling offside with the right hand to permit better eye contact between AR and R, but that it is not emphasized or mandated at lower levels.)

     
  23. zlevin

    zlevin Member

    Jul 13, 2009
    SFCA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In theory, if you signal offside (on a standard diagonal) just about all the players will be to your left. If the flag is in your left hand when you signal, it will/very well could be in your line of vision while watching the players. Since there is nobody to your right, a flag in the right hand doesn't block anything.
     
  24. soccerking1990

    Aug 11, 2010
    Texas
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It also allows you to make eye contact with the CR who will be on your left.
     
  25. LiquidYogi

    LiquidYogi Member

    Sep 3, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    But that's never the case...you should always switch to your right hand when you signal. I thought this new mechanic was just to get the flag into your right hand so you could signal faster...not so you could signal with your right hand because I was doing that always anyways.
     

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