2 Man System, yes I know its bad, but still looking for advice...

Discussion in 'Referee' started by AspireNatlRef, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. AspireNatlRef

    AspireNatlRef Member

    Jul 13, 2007
    New Orleans
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok,

    Well tommorow I have to do the dreaded 2man on a Varsity Game.

    I know how awful it is and I would prefer not to do it, but our HS assigner is in a bind and needs me.

    So,

    What have you found are the biggest pitfalls, mistakes and other things that make this such a bad system.

    And more importantly, what are some solutions you folks have found to correct these problems. (and please don't tell me get the DSC, its beyond my control, so I would just like info to make this game better...)

    Of course, if any of you have read my previous posts, I stated we don't use that system anymore, but apparently since we are SO short of referees, the other option is to put a referee in the middle and hope for the best. Plus I have also stated my own personal disdane for this system of control, but maybe this can work out.

    Thanks for any advise, it is is always appreciated.

    ANR
     
  2. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I have seen a ton of it in action this fall as I have been sidelined by injury and have been watching games instead of refereeing.

    DO NOT walk up and down the touchlines. The game is not on the touchline! If you look around a few sites, you will find a triangle that gets you to the middle of the field a lot, and my school of thought is it's better to be in position to call a foul that impacts the game, then to be in position to call whether the ball went out off white or blue.

    Talk to your partner before the game and make some hard and fast decisions about "railroading". That is, the call from across the field might as well be made from across the universe. How are you going to decide advantage, meaning if you recognize advantage close to you, and it takes a second to recognize, signal and call out, don't have the other ref from 60 yards away blow his whistle becasue he thinks you didn't see the obvious foul.

    Get involved, don't referee the game from far away just because you are in a dual. Get in there, and you can still call the Offside trap if need be.

    Rog
     
  3. ref2coach

    ref2coach Member

    May 27, 2004
    TN, USA
    It is about your mind set. In a dual you are not an AR with a whistle. You are a Referee with offside responsibilities.

    Keep play bracketed between you and your partner.

    If you draw an imaginary line through the ball touching both touchline's, at lead stay within 10 yards of the imaginary line. At trail stay within 25 to 30 yards of that imaginary line. At trail be willing to leave the 2LD to follow the play up the field deeply penetration the other half.

    To do a dual correctly you will run more than you would as a AR in a DSC but a little less than an R in a DSC.
     
  4. GKbenji

    GKbenji Member+

    Jan 24, 2003
    Fort Collins CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You should come as far into the field as you can. I usually try to get myself in as far as the widest player on my side of the field in my half, so you still have everyone in sight and won't blow an offside because of a player standing behind you. Sometimes you'll need to be all the way out at the touchline, but often you can be 10-15 yards in to the field.

    Don't be afraid to go deep into your partner's end if you need to--give up an offside on a quick counter to make sure you don't miss a contentious play deep in the "coffin corner". Then, be ready to sprint on the counter.
     
  5. nonya

    nonya Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    Like all the NJ guys we have been doing 2 man since the dawn of soccer.

    I disagree with the above posters who say you need to come in from the touch. First, you need to see how wide the field is. Coming 10-15 yards in on a narrow field will put you in the line of action. If it is a wide field, then you probably will have to come in off the line. Second, you may have a really slow game where you can come in and have no problems, but in my experience the faster and more skilled the game is, the closer you will want to be to the touch line. I saw a game once where a referee called a player offside, and then turned around and saw a defender standing right next to the touch line, so be wary of something like that.

    It is more important in a 2 man to have a good pregame than a 3 man in my opinion. Decide how to handle subs, who is going to blow the whistle for restarts (the trail or lead,) who will keep time (if not on a stadium clock), who is the head referee, how far in and down do you want to come in, and most importantly calling fouls in front of your partner. I don't like my partner calling something in front of me, and I never do it to my partner. Also find out from your partner if he likes to use advantage a lot, or does he like to blow the whistle. You will find USSF guys blowing fewer whistles than guys who just do high school games (generally.) The worst game I ever did was a playoff game in which the whistle never blew in my half of the field and was constantly heard in the other half. My partner had no concept of advantage or trifiling. What do you do if both officials blow the whistle for a foul and point in opposite directions? Who takes what on a PK?

    Generally, if you have a good partner who has some USSF experience you shouldn't have any problems.
     
  6. Tarheel Ref

    Tarheel Ref New Member

    May 3, 2007
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Teamwork is the the most important factor in calling the game well. There will be times when, due to the necessity of remaining with the 2LD line that your view of a play is blocked because you're trying to look through two or three defenders at the play. I'll point to my partner to let him know that I simply cannot see what's happening on the ball and "ask" for help that way. If I'm blocked from seeing what's happening my partner's view will be 90 degrees or so off of mine so maybe that's a better POV.

    As for nonya's post above, I agree and disagree with him. Yes it is imperative to track ALL the defenders to properly call offside, but at the same time it's important to be as close to the play as possible especially in a contentious and physical match. My solution to this for myself is to come in from the touch as far as the closest defender to me allows and then move back as the ball comes back to my side of the field.

    Neither of these are great solutions but it's a difficult problem to overcome.
     
  7. Trevallion

    Trevallion Member

    May 3, 2006
    The Yakima Valley

    I'll second this. In my experience, this works quite well.
     
  8. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    I have a forerunner which is a GPS fitness tracker.

    In a High School Dual match I ran 5.5 miles on a standard sized pitch - admittedly this was a challenging match, on an easier one I ran 4.8 miles (girl's game on smaller field).

    In a High School DSC match on the field the Rochester Rhinos (120x75) use in the State Sectional semi-final for largest sized schools I ran 7 miles through Regulation. (7.8 after 11 min of OT when the sudden victory happened).

    On a High School line I ran 3.5 miles. (Not a great game, a lot of standing).

    On a college line (with 2 - 10min OTs) I ran 5.2 miles.
     
  9. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Definitely agree with the first and last lines. If you're only 10 yards away from the ball on the lead, you're likely to be completely out of position for offside calls. When the ball is coming to you, you need to be fairly close to the 2LD. Though I'll definitely sacrifice my angle for the ability to see the action on the ball. This position requires the trail to follow the play upfield.

    Frequently in two man, I seem to get into bad position, so I usually agree that if either see a foul that needs to be called to make the call. I remember one game where two girls played right in front of my partner. The defender tripped the attacker, but my partner was too close to see it, so I had to make the call from across the field. It definitely need to be called.
     
  10. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    I WATCHED a ton of dual games this year, and from my perspective any referee who thought it was okay to make calls from 45-50 yards away and not moving off the touchline was NOT doing his job.

    Again, I will say it is far more important to be in position to call the foul play in this scenario than it is to call the offside. The chances of you missing an offside are slim in running the dual from an inside position, but the chances of you missing foul play (IMHO) are far greater if you watch the game from the sidelines. You might as well be watching the game from the stand!

    Watching a game gives you a much different perspective on refereeing than actually refereeing. I look for positioning more thatn anything when I'm watching and I am amazed at how poorly placed some of our guys are.

    R
     
  11. NJ Ref

    NJ Ref New Member

    Jan 28, 2005
    Central New Jersey
    The “coffin corner” is my biggest complaint about the dual system.

    During an attack the lead official is in line with the second to last to watch for the offside call…usually along with a whole group of attacking and defending players. The far side of the field…maybe 40-50 yards away (the coffin corner), is typically totally blocked from view from the lead official from all the players running down the field. No way can you see fouls being committed. Here is when you must rely on the trail to make that call. Accordingly, you need a partner that runs to cover that corner of the field…and even so, they might be 30-40 or so yards from the play but have a much better view than the lead official.

    My second complaint, partially covered above, is being too far away from play to make all the calls that need to be made.

    And my only solution…Diagonal System of Control.
     
  12. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Totally agree, but the Dual is what is being run for the most part at high levels in NJ. And in other states as well.

    I think a well run dual with in sync partners is almost as good as a DSC, although I wouldn't want a DSC with out of sync partners either.

    R
     
  13. AspireNatlRef

    AspireNatlRef Member

    Jul 13, 2007
    New Orleans
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I appreciate all of your comments about making the Dual (Duel) system better.

    Just one other note, after doing two Boys varsity games solo, I'll take the 2man system over that any day. You guys have always been a wealth of knowledge and I have kearned greatly from it.

    ANR
     
  14. falcon.7

    falcon.7 New Member

    Feb 19, 2007
    Dual system with two guys who know each other, can run, and know how to referee works good. I would still prefer one whistle and two flags, but if you have 2 people who know how to operate in the dual system (i.e. return to the offside line, cover the coffin corner, and areas of responsibility), it can work. It's all about knowing what you need to cover at what times, and what your partner needs to cover at what times.
     

Share This Page