2 Ideas we have to give up

I’d wait until NCAA goes to FIFA rules and year round season before I would give up on the NCAA as a potential U23 development league.

 

What's the other idea?

 

3rd idea we have to give up:

Qualifying for Qatar.

 

Who is arguing that college soccer is the answer? I haven't seen anyone say that in 20 years.

I do think it can have value as a safety net to catch late bloomers, something other countries don't have in place. The fact that college soccer exists also invcentivises parents to pay for pay to play, which isn't going to go away overnight (and probably won't ever go away fully).

 

What if college implements a system where some schools are relegated back to high school? I think this could work great.

 

the path from college to pro used to be at least somewhat possible.

guys like dempsey gibbs onyewu etc all played in college.

now that MLS is focusing on developing their won players and buying more foreign players.....i dont think the next generation's dempsey's would even get on the field in MLS...the opportunity is no longer there for college players.

look at ebobisse and danladi...they have barely played this season despite bith showing promise.....the path from college to pro is harder than ever and shouldnt really be considered a good choice for any player with realistic pro/national team aspirations, imo.

 

Awesome post.

That’s what we need to focus on with college soccer. It’s a way for players who would never have been found to take their game to the next level. Or even, for instance, I’ll be honest, as a parent, I doubt I would let my kid go live in a boarding type school situation for an academy even if they were good enough. I simply want my kid at home when my kid is still a kid.

The thing is we need to tackle the college soccer issues where they exist. And, to me, it exists that there isn’t a serious u23 league that is focused in the major college towns. More, MLS teams should have u21 kids playing in this same league, as some academy kids might not even be ready for USL yet.

 

Do you think USL D3 could fill this hole? They are supposed to be in many more cities in a regional configuration.

 

No and I will tell you why in this rant...

The u23 league I’m speaking about needs to be highly focused as a youth development for those post-high school years. The idea is to enhance what the college game is lacking.

The D3, the way I see it, is an adult professional league, and while maybe serving as a reserve league for MLS teams, it’s still geared to be pro and offering entertainment value. More so, I eventually hope that we’ll see a merger with NASL, USL pro, and D3 and form a organized ladder where the best teams play in the top and bottom teams fall in the lower leagues. For instance, my city, Greenville, I understand is never going to be a MLS city...but it would be cool to see it reach the “NASL level”.

We want stable, soccer franchises, where the focus on development is still there and teams can field at least 50-75% of their own team from their academies and/or other youth teams.

In other words, Greenville may have a club league in Greenville, Easley, Anderson, Clemson, Spartanburg, Simpsonville, Mauldin, Greer, Taylors, Travelers Rest, Berea, Laurens, Seneca, and Greenwood. The best players eventually funnel into or invited to be part of the Greenville u10, Greenville u12, Greenville u14, and Greenville u18; and compete in the DA system. The idea is that Greenville would be the HQ and help train the coaches for all these teams, and so forth. Which, Greenville [hypothetically] partners with Atlanta United; and since AtlUtd might be footing a lot of the bill for logistics; these Greenville territory players funnel under the AtlUtd web and can become HGP; which under how I believe the rule should state, be cap exempt players. Therefore, by Greenville developing a first rate system; Atlanta United can benefit from this player factory.

This is what I want to see around the country. A hierarchical ladder or web that reaches to all the corners of the nation. The way to do that is through the lower divisions since there is no way to cover the map just through MLS. That needs to be our priority. And, By allowing these players to be “cap exempt” the teams that invest most in their youth; are going to rise to the top.

*Side note: There is also an added side benefit. If MLS’ teams spread their webs in their nearby smaller markets, in their territory, it increases buy in from the fans in nearby smaller markets.*

That said, due to age, maturity, and the difficulty in finding the right talents at a young age; the u23 league hopefully catches those players when they go to college if they’re missed by the academy system. For instance, said player, John Doe, from Anderson may be missed to join the Greenville or Atlanta United academy teams, for whatever reason; but Clemson University knows this guy has talent. John Doe signs with Clemson University and also plays for the Clemson club team. Because of the fact that now John Doe is not only playing collegiate ball but club ball; he gains recognition from MLS scouts; particularly because Atlanta United has partnered with the Clemson club team; John Doe can choose to sign now with Atlanta United; where he might either finish his years in the u23 league or be loaned to his hometown, Greenville D3 team. There, John Doe plays a couple years with Greenville D3 until Atlanta United picks him up for the senior team; and perhaps also a HGP, due to Atlanta United’s investment in the Clemson club team. Ultimately, John Doe was not able to join the academy team for whatever reason when he was a kid; (not scouted, parents couldn’t take him to Greenville from Anderson, etc), but he was able to be put in a Premier development path once he joined the Clemson club team after he graduated high school. From there, because he spent a couple years in a much more advanced developmental path, playing year round in a competitive and fostering environment, than had he simply joined a random college team with no real investment in turning him into a pro, he developed into a MLS ready pro at the age of 20.

In essence, I apologize for trying to explain this complicated process in perhaps more complicated verbiage, but the D3 and the u23 serve two different purposes in what they are meant to accomplish. The D3 is to reach those markets that are just not big enough for MLS or maybe even NASL (ie Greenville) while still spreading the footprint and the u23 league is designed to offer a sort of premier club league for the top college players in the game; thus, the teams are located in the major college towns (ie Clemson). The small markets in D3 get the entertainment value of a professional yet minor league team (similar to how these type towns support minor league baseball teams - i.e. the soccer version of the Greenville Drive); whereas the u23 serves only to enhance the development of the post-high school years players and circumvent the hindrances in place from NCAA.

 

Thanks for the well thought out and detailed reply.

I think NASL is most likely to be gone and only USL and USL D3 left but that should not have any affect on the system you envision.

The real heavy lifting will be to get all MLS teams to buy in fully to this concept.

I get the minor league side as my community has the Reno Aces in baseball, Reno 1868FC and the Reno Bighorns in the D league of basketball. We will not go any further than top tier minor league teams.

I like the u23 concept you have for catching those who fell through the cracks.

 

On MLS buying in....

I think the way to do this is the HGP rule.

Six (+) points I argue for

#1. HGP status means the player is cap exempt. Clubs that invest in their youth should be able to reach whatever pinnacle they can reach in the world of soccer. If say, Atlanta United and FC Dallas want to have the best soccer academies in the world, then they could field a team of Neuer, Alaba, Hummels, Pique, Sergio Ramos, Verratti, Pogba, Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, and Lewandowski, with Aguero, Bale, and Dybala coming off the bench; if they were to all have came out of their academy system. Whereas, to pick on Colorado Rapids unfairly, if they neglected youth development then they can stick to playing an XI with Axel Sjoberg as their star player. In other words, parity ends where youth development begins.

#2. Percentage HGP status. This may or not be necessary yet, but if we begin to run into situations where clubs are gobbling talents for HGP and not investing in the development; then the percentage rule would be used to counter that situation. In other words, the Yedlin case where the Sounders had minimal investment in Yedlin’s development; the club presents their case to the MLS board and they rule on the percentage a player is cap exempt. Of course, there would be an appeal process. For instance, if the MLS board rules that he’s 50% HGP then 50% of his salary does not count against the cap whereas the other half does. Ideally, most HGP would be 100% but this would be used when HGP status is highly debatable.

#3. HGP mandatory minutes for u23 players. In order for a HGP to maintain HGP status; the club must guarantee a certain amount of minutes (say, 1000?) per year; except in situations for an appeal that the club was at no fault (injury, suspension, etc). To be clear, these minutes do NOT have to come from the senior team; in fact, the player can be loaned back to the u21 team to receive these minutes, and note that when on loan, the player’s time counts whether he plays or not... in other words, if Atl Utd loan John Doe to Charleston Battery for 10 games and John Doe has a bad attitude about it and the Battery coach chooses not to play John Doe; that’s still counts as 900 minutes - as the club can prove intent they tried to get John Doe the mandatory minutes. More so, if a player refuses a loan, the club can still prove intent. Otherwise, the player can choose (or not) to cancel his contract with his club and forfeit HGP status. Note that the whole point of this rule isn’t to foster a situation where young players can slack off and expect to play, but that coaches cannot hold a player’s career hostage. There are rules in place to protect both parties.

#4. Teams must have at least a certain percentage of their roster be HGP. This set percentage rate is debatable but I would argue for 25% of the senior team roster must be HGP...if not more. This way, a team cannot simply go out and purchase the team they want. There’s some accountability in place to invest in youth; or the senior team will feel the effect. Teams that don’t invest are going to lack depth, where teams that do are going to have depth.

#5. Clubs get to keep 100% of transfer revenue for HGP. In order to keep clubs from sitting on HGP’s, clubs can sell HGP and reap the reward.

#6. Players can have more than one club for HGP status. In a lot of cases, players are not going to exist solely in one system. More, we do want to allow room for competition. For instance, in the case of John Doe; he’s from Houston, TX but moves to be part of the Atlanta United academy system. John Doe then would be eligible for HGP status for both Atlanta and Houston. Now, Atlanta May appeal to the board to state that Houston had no impact on his professional development; therefore, via the percentage rule, may count as only 50% for Houston; whereas qualifies as 100% for Atlanta. Either way, John Doe may start his career with Atl Utd but may transfer to Houston for $10 million. Atlanta Utd keep that $10 million to invest wherever they so choose; and now John Doe has a HGP contract for Houston, but under the restrictions, is 50% cap exempt for Houston.

*#7 Side note: Designated players simply become cap exempt players, and each team is granted 4 DP’s. In order to not begin buying wars for all the best players which would be bad for the league yet allowing room for signing marquee players; each team is simply given 4 cap exempt players. Hell, a player making 50k could be a cap exempt, DP player if the club so chooses; but each team gets 4. You can have Neymar as a DP or you can have Bobby Boswell. Either way, both player’s salary don’t count against the salary cap equally.

*#8. Side note: Do away with allocation money, TAM, GAM, and discovery rights. It’s simply confusing. Teams should be focused more on youth development then scouting Argentina, Brazil, etc for the best talents. Now, there’s still room for those players; either by DP or by way of the salary cap. But simplify the process. A player either fits inside the cap or he doesn’t.

 

Let me add this one addendum:

Clarify the HGP rules for the percentage.

Example,

Residency inside territory
1 year residency, <18, 10%

2 year residency, <18, 20%

3 year residency, <18, 30%

4 year residency, <18, 40%

5 year residency, <18, 50%

Note: MLS ultimately needs to carve out all of the US and Canada in territories. If say, I grew up in Greenville, SC and Greenville, SC is in the Atlanta United territory then that counts as my years of residency.

Years with Affiliate youth team

1 year, 50%

2 years, 75%

3+ years, 100%

Years with affiliate u23 team or reserve team
+1 year, 25%
*(percentages may add up to 100% with years in residency or youth affiliate team)

Years with Academy
1+ year, 100%

 

Here's a question: many have suggested MLS reserve teams be D3. Why is that preferable to D2. I realize that in Germany the reserve team is 3 levels down (as opposed to 1 or 2). What do people see as the advantage to that system?

by the way, my ideal would be at least a D2 AND a D3 reserve team for each MLS team but I think, I would rather begin with D2 if I had to pick one or the other.

 

You are absolutely wrong wrong about High School and College. They are just one way to an ends...
Why college soccer isn't going away as a path to MLS
image: https://images.cdn.fourfourtwo.com/...y_taormina-usa_today_sports.jpg?itok=ZMFW1iFL


There are many roads to the professional game, and a college degree provides a fallback for life after soccer.

Steve Davis





Published
30 May 2017
Supporters of professional soccer have a long history of beating up the college game. It’s too fast and too physical; the season is too short, and it doesn’t even abide by all the international laws of the game. Fair enough.

But people who think college soccer and the college draft is completely outdated as an MLS feeder aren't paying attention.

The college game remains relevant for a number of reasons – some perhaps less obvious than others. Let’s start with the obvious:

We can probably all agree that college soccer remains viable as a way for young men and women who love the game to keep playing at a high level past high school, even if they aren’t on the fast track to a professional contract.





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Beyond that, it remains a valuable mechanism for stocking MLS rosters. Yes, it has become less impactful, diminished by other personnel acquisition tools, especially the ongoing initiative to develop and sign more Homegrown Players. Still, teams continue to benefit from the draft.

The league’s best defenses right now, at Sporting Kansas City and FC Dallas, were built around the draft. Those teams’ starting center backs, Matt Besler, Ike Opara, Matt Hedges and Walker Zimmerman, were all stars in college who entered the league through the draft.

While it’s true that all four were selected between 2009 and 2013, in a period of far fewer homegrown signings and before other helpful roster-building tools, like General Allocation Money (GAM) and Targeted Allocation Money (TAM), teams continue to reap draft-day rewards. Best case in point: 2015 No. 1 pick Cyle Larin.

Orlando City’s outstanding striker has been everything anyone could have hoped for, scoring 38 goals in 72 appearances. His potential sale would bring a windfall for the league and the Lions, whether that happens now or later. Khiry Shelton, Fatai Alashe, Matt Polster, Tim Parker, Axel Sjoberg were all selected shortly after Larin and are all now regular MLS contributors.



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A year later, Jack Harrison, Josh Yaro, Keegan Rosenberry and Brandon Vincent were the first four selected; it’s hard to look at any of those guys and not like what you see. The draft’s impact on MLS rosters may continue to decline, but those names and a scattering of others demonstrate its ongoing relevance.

But there is something else we rarely talk about with college soccer (and by extension, the draft), an element that makes it preferable to the homegrown route in some ways:

If a 21 or 22-year old homegrown signing washes out – and that certainly happens – he probably doesn't have much more than a small savings to fall back on. A college draft pick who doesn't stick around in the professional game may have a college degree (or be closer to it, at least). From a human being standpoint, it's a necessary option. We just rarely get around to talking about that because we focus so intensely on player development.

At some point, we all are invested in the people development business, so we should never wander too far from that critical watchtower.



image: https://images.cdn.fourfourtwo.com/...y_taormina-usa_today_sports.jpg?itok=Ctj0UtxH




Troy Taormina-USA TODAY Sports


Many of us grew up around British soccer. Tutored by coaches from England, Scotland or Ireland while studiously watching the Premier League, the game from the British Isles set our standards. So it’s interesting to see more players there eschewing the old models of player development and growth, choosing the American college route instead. This story from the Telegraph says a growing number of “released British academy players are rejecting a life in the lower leagues for a shot in MLS via college soccer. Players such as Sporting KC’s Dom Dwyer and Real Salt Lake’s Luke Mulholland serve as inspiration to an ambitious generation with an American dream.”

In other words, more 18- or 19-year-old English prospects are choosing an American college education. If they keep developing physically, tactically, emotionally and in level of skill – and let’s face it, some young men and women develop later than others – they may find themselves on an MLS roster via the draft.

NBC Sports commentator Robbie Earle once talked to me about the value of the college system as opposed to the system from which he graduated, in England, with those limited options for players who fall short professionally. This was back when his son, Otis Earle, was drafted by FC Dallas in 2015.

The younger Earle didn’t make it in MLS, released after one year by FCD. He doesn’t have a professional soccer career, but he does have a degree from the University of California Riverside.

College soccer isn’t necessarily a better option for promising players, but it certainly is a different one – one that has its merits.


Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/feat...-isnt-going-away-path-mls#TxOxkdTMcHWubop7.99

 

The teams that have tried to go developmental heavy with their USL teams are generally over matched and that environment isn't ideal for development. You want players to be challenged, but if you can't play cohesive soccer, control the ball and have any real build up offensively then it doesn't seem to be a worthwhile activity.

D3 would thus be better suited to fielding developmental heavy teams because it should be high enough to challenge players, but not too high of a level where those teams can't compete.

Top-end prospects who are too good for D3 can be loaned to D2.

 

I’m not a pro/rel fan for MLS but I am for the lower leagues for this reason.

 

Thank you for the response. I see two problems. You addressed both. Currently we have the problem that many of the academy players are not yet ready for USL but we also have the problem of transitioning to MLS. I fully agree with the need for a D3 but also see a need for a D2. that is fully under control of the parent team. I understand that right now it may just be a choice of priorities. I wonder if the future holds D2 and D3 teams for MLS teams. I see that as far preferable to loaning players (if development is the goal).

In theory at least, teams can loan players to USL teams but there seem to have been some notable issues that may just be growing pains or may be signs of weakness in that option. I know I have read about several players that have been in a sort of limbo...not playing with their parent team and not getting time with a USL team....even when that MLS team is affiliated with a USL team (which should simplify the process). Dallas is of course one of the prime examples.

By the way, I feel the same way about the Bundesliga. I see that as a very imperfect system. It may be the best....or one of the best systems around but I fail to see how filling in the gap between B4 and B1 would not be beneficial.

 

Not sure if it factors in with your answer or not but it does relate to my original question: The fact that reserve teams of Bayern et all are limited by a B4 ceiling makes those leagues defaco non pro/rel for those teams. Do you advocate allowing the development teams to participate in pro/rel with the rest of the league or do you advocate following Germany's model?
Thanks

 

My proposal...

Fist tier:
MLS
28-32 teams
No promotion/relegation

Second tier:
D2 & D3
MLS reserves included
Four conferences with promotion/relegation between D2 &D3 in the Conferences

Third tier:
U23 premier league focused in major college towns and u21 MLS teams.

In other words, the second tier in the southern conference may look like:

D2: Atlanta United II, FC Dallas II, Houston Dynamo II, Orlando City II, Charleston Battery, Jacksonville Armada, Tampa Bay Rowdies, Raleigh Railhawks, Austin, New Orleans, Rio Grande Valley Toros, Birmingham, Charlotte Independence, Richmond Kickers, Greenville

D3: Nashville II (MLS), San Antonio II (MLS), Virginia Beach, Columbia, Corpus Christi, McAllen, Wilmington, Greensboro, Memphis, Ft Lauderdale, Waco, Chattanooga, Jackson, Little Rock, Fort Worth

 

Thank you for your reply.
so you are anticipating some MLS teams having D2 teams and some having D3 teams with the ability to climb or fall?

 

Yeah, basically, the teams that are in existence right now would be in D2. But with D3 they’ll have there chance to win promotion and the struggling D2 teams will be relegated to D3.