2. Bundesliga Thread 2011/2012 [R]

Discussion in 'Germany' started by footyfan1, Jul 20, 2010.

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Who Will Win Promotion From The 2nd Bundesliga This Season?

  1. Eintracht Frankfurt

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. VfL Bochum

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. St. Pauli

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. TSV 1860 München

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  5. SpVgg Greuther Fürth

    2 vote(s)
    100.0%
  6. Fortuna Düsseldorf

    2 vote(s)
    100.0%
  7. Alemannia Aachen

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Karlsruher SC (KSC)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. FC Energie Cottbus

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Eintracht Braunschweig

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. 1.FC Union Berlin

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. MSV Duisburg

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. Dynamo Dresden

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. FC Ingolstadt 04

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. Erzgebirge Aue

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  16. SC Paderborn 07

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 20, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    Wolfgang Stark testified that he was indeed attacked in the Hertha locker room when he told them to come out to finish the match. He apparently specifically named Levan Kobiashvili and Christian Lell. Stark also said Hertha players tried to get into the referee's dressing room and he recognized the voices of Andre Mijatovic and Thomas Kraft calling him an "a$$hole."

    The Hertha players are trying to say they were "too afraid" to go back out there and finish the match.

    Yeah. They were too afraid to finish the match, but they're tough enough to want to attack a referee!! :thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

    F#ck these punk ass players! I hope the DFB suspends all the ones Stark named for at least six to ten matches next season! :mad: :mad:

    Click here for the story at kicker.de.
     
  2. "Eisenfuß" Eilts

    Jul 1, 2005
    In the sun ;)
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    If Kobiashvilli hit the referee (the scene was confirmed by some witnesses btw) he gets suspended for a half season up to two years. But that guy is so old and over the top that it does not matter. :mad:

    So I hope the case goes to a normal court.
     
  3. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    that fire had nothing to do with flares. it had to do with unsafe old wooded stands which hadn't had the trash cleaned out from under them for years and years, and with smoking... which is what I think should be banned in stadiums!
     
  4. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    [​IMG]
    tie 'em to the car and drag 'em.
     
  5. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    Exactly my point...that was done with carelessness for legal items. What happens if something like that happens with illegal items?

    Point is, the flares are illegal. Bring it in, get punished. Use it, get punished harder. Throw it on the pitch, get punished even harder. If you do not stop this crap now...and hard...it wll escalate.
     
  6. guignol

    guignol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 28, 2005
    mermoz-les-boss
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    my case is not easily tenable but i see no real harm in flares or smoke. i defy you to start a fire in a modern stadium with a flare... or even a flame-thrower. but clearly throwing them into other stands, or onto the field, cannot be tolerated. and cherrybombs are RIGHT OUT. a fireman lost two fingers to one during a marseille-nice match about 5 years ago.
     
  7. footyfan1

    footyfan1 BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 20, 2003
    San Antonio, Texas
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In what I guess is 2. Liga news now, 1. FC Kaierslautern has fired coach Krassimir Balakov.

    Rumor has it there is going to be a massive house-cleaning at FCK.......

    Click here for the story in German at Bild.de.
     
  8. Borussia

    Borussia Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    Fürth near Nuremberg
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany


    Those idiots from the guest section didn't even care whether they might have injured their own players. :speechless: All they apparently wanted, was to abandon the match after the yellow-red card and following 1:2 lag. That's one of the reasons why I hope the game won't get repeated (decision of the court on Monday) despite the stupidity of many Düsseldorf fans & the inability of the security forces to keep the fans behind the side fances.




    Hopefully both clubs get the serious fines they deserve ... and some Hertha players a long-time ban for attacking the referee.
     
  9. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    It's not as if the suits actually want to stop them. Too good of a bogeyman. I think 99% of Ultras in Germany are stupid kids you shouldn't take serious, and I generally don't fall for conspiracy theories - but even I think by now that certain people within the DFL want to get rid of those pesky fans in the long run and try to use events such as this as an excuse.

    And if running on the pitch before the game is over and stealing a bit of the field is worth of a life time stadium ban, I'm afraid I should have gotten one years ago (ok, actually I got the piece of the field after the game was over, I think...)
     
  10. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    They don't actually try to. I'm not 100% sure if this has changed, but the standard policy was (and probably still is) to LET the people on the field. The last few times in Braunschweig it were the security forces who opened the gates to let the people out, and before the game was over even.
     
  11. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    So it's okay if I bring stereo to a game and light it? Please. The point is they are illegal. If you look the other way for flares where do you draw the line? It's not like the are cigarette lighters, these things have magnesium in the and burn hot. The can most certainly melt plastic or catch clothes on fire.

    But I stand by the previous post...throw ANYTHING on the pitch and you should be strictly punished.

    EDIT...look at the smoke from that video again and tell me that THAT is not dangerous! Ever heard of smoke inhalation?
     
  12. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    I cannot see them allowing a replay. That would lead to ANY team's fans doing the same things to abandon any match. I bet they go the other way....and heavily fine both players and fans involved in these abhorrent acts.
     
  13. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    "Abhorrent acts"? I'm glad we finally left all the overdramatization behind. Anyway - a replay is very unlikely. If it happens - than the media freak out would be the only reasons. By now I could name six previous games where a pitch invasion happened before the game was over (also thanks to the more level headed journalists using examples for why this wasn't all that extraordinary), and never had there been a replay. And heavy fines for the fans? I hope it's obvoius, but: they can't fine the fans shit. They are not an actual court and all. Fortuna Düsseldorf could sue individual fans, but it's very unlikely I'd say.
     
  14. Kampfschwein

    Kampfschwein Member

    Jan 3, 2011
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Well, they should. Without punishment, those jerks will just continue.
     
  15. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    The Düsseldorf fans didn't do anything even remotely deserving of such a reaction. The flare throwing maybe, but banning those has been futile for years now.
     
  16. Lupin III

    Lupin III Member+

    Mar 17, 2011
    Denmark
    Club:
    Brøndby IF
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    Alex I do 100% agree with you. Nowadays Clubofficials dont look on those fans as important just as threats on their risc analysis. Ultra fans or as we should in this case denote them to young stupid kids is definately not wanted by modern football business men.
     
  17. "Eisenfuß" Eilts

    Jul 1, 2005
    In the sun ;)
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    As far as I remember the scenes Düsseldorf fans were in the inner part of the stadium before the match was over and ran onto the pitch when they heard the refs whistle (they thought it was the last whistle, but it was not). These were not violent people, but normal people, kids and also some dumb people (like the one who stole the grass with the penalty point).
    They ran onto the pitch because they thought the match was over and most of them left it when the stadium announcer said that the match is not over. Does anyone really want to punish them?

    IMHO the Düsseldorf stadium security is the one who is responsible for that scene. They should have prevented that fans reached the inner area of the stadium. And the stadium security failed to prevent people from bringing Pyro articles into the stadium (although it is hard to prevent it, it is a mistake). For the security mistakes Düsseldorf deserves indeed hard punishment.

    Now lets come to Hertha. As one can see on Borussias video from the Hertha block Bengalos and firework articles were thrown onto the pitch towards their own players and it was so strong that the referee had to add a very long extra-time. So Hertha, or better their fans, are IMHO played their part to make out of this match a scandal one. After the match some Hertha players attacked the referee and (according to the referee) one punch him and closely killed him. This never happened before in the BL history and this is IMHO a clear bigger scandal than some people running one minute too early onto the pitch because their misinterpreted a whistle.

    Hertha made an official statement and said sorry to the referee and excused their players behavior, but at this point a simple sorry is not enough. I would like to see that the case is handed over to a normal court and that the involved players get what they deserve, i.e. potentially prison for Kobiashvili.
     
  18. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    alex....yes, flare throwing and even bringing them into the stadium is an abhorrent act. Why, just read about the magnesium burns several fans suffered who were exposed to the flares who had nothing to do with bringing them in. One flare dripped on to a kid for christ sake, so yes, it is an abhorrent act.

    After watching the replay of the scene I am not so sure the Fortuna security is to blame. They were called to the end of the stadium where the Hertha fans were as a show of force. According to the security and police report that was posted online, the officials feared that Hertha fans would storm the pitch so the moved the majority of their considerable force to that end of the pitch as a deterrent. At that point it left the rest of the stadium open for the Fortuna fans to spill on to the pitch. Not sure you can blame the police or stadium security for that. They clearly had enough people on hand AS LONG AS the Fortuna fans minded the rules. They didn't, of course, so the club should get a fine or some sanction just to send a message to their fans they were wrong.

    I agree with missing so many bangalos coming into the stadium...that was a huge miss.

    Hertha, on the other hand, really needs a hard sanction. They are a honorable club but if they are not sanctioned heavily just imagine what lessor clubs will do?
     
  19. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    I'm with you on the danger of flares, especially throwing them. I'm also fine with stadium bans for people throwing flares (it's not as if they will identify them, though). Most people would have totally ignored this without the pitch invasion, though. Just like the KSC game is ignored, despite being a much "better" example of "hooliganism". Generally, however, flares are a case where the ban makes something more dangerous in the first place. It's futile and won't stop them (I haven't seen people cry out about the flares in the CL final, for some reason), but effectively causes them to be burned in the most crowded area in the stadium and in secret.

    People act like this is some sort news. Police doesn't try to stop pitch invasion. They seperate the fan groups. And clubs have tolerated or even encouraged pitch invasions for decades. If that game had happened ten years ago no one would have given a ********. Being on national TV and happening during a slow news week can change this, however.

    What exactly makes Hertha a more honorable club than others? It's not as if Hertha have been strangers to such incidents. Hell, back in the 80s they had one of the most violent and notorious hooligan groups in all of Germany (yeah, that was quite some time ago, but it's not as if nothing has happened there since then, e.g. all the stuff surrounding their 2010 relegation and all).
     
  20. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Oh, and for the record - Hertha's protest has been dismissed.
     
  21. F96

    F96 Member+

    Oct 24, 2002
    Skåne
    Club:
    Hannover 96
  22. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    Hertha's fans, for the most part, are not the same as some of those clubs known for causing problems. We all know who the trouble-making fans are in the BL and 2.BL. I know every club has their ultras, but we are talking those fan groups from certain clubs which are not as, shall we say, sociable and adhering to laws as the rest of the clubs.

    Here is the DFL report from Kicker...

    http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...esen_doch-hertha-geht-vors-bundesgericht.html
     
  23. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    When it comes to fines for fan misbehaviour Hertha are right there on top. In 2011 they ranked 5th of all German clubs (had to pay twice as much in fines as, say, Eintracht Frankfurt), and 2nd among former West German clubs (funnily, the only club above them there was Düsseldorf).
     
  24. Zak1FCK

    Zak1FCK Member+

    Aug 23, 2005
    Milwaukee
    Club:
    FC Kaiserslautern
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A couple years ago, Kaiserslautern fans set fire to Mannheim stadium seats and a bathroom after the Mannheim fans set fire to a Kaiserslautern flag.
     
  25. Kampfschwein

    Kampfschwein Member

    Jan 3, 2011
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Well, I don't see how you come to this conclusion when German clubs feature plenty of very moderately priced standing terraces.

    Of course, the DFL and clubs are worried by violent and dangerous behaviour in the stadiums.

    To think that they're letting these matters escalate only for them to be eventually able to get rid of ultras is nothing short of a loony conspiracy theory.
     

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