I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHO THE PLAYER IS! It should be easier to make a comparison between the NASL and MLS than those typical arguements about baseball (1927 Yankees vs a modern-day team, or a Babe Ruth vs. a Barry Bonds, for example). The NASL folded in 1984 (outdoor) so it is still fresh in our minds and one can still speak to a Granitza or a Chinaglia for their point of view. Next time I speak with Derrick Spaulding of the Sting, I will ask him to weigh in on this issue. I already know what Granitza or Chinaglia will say. And they would be telling the truth. Can Rolfe or Jaqua fill a stadium? Not even these micro-stadiums that they are building. Chinaglia played in front of 77,000 screming fans at Giants Stadium, without Pele in the lineup. He had some help (Beckenbauer, Eskandarian (the father), Bogicevic, ect) but not one of the curent Metrostar players would be good enough to play on that Cosmos team. Chris Rolfe and Nate Jaqua would be reserves, at best, on the Chicago Sting. Not to take away from those two players, but the Sting was a great side that could beat international competition. The Cosmos were an international All-Star team, like today's Real Madrid or Inter Milan. The cost of such teams proved to be unsustainable, even with owners such as Warner Brothers and Lee Stern; so we have what we have today; but please do not mention Rolfe and Jaqua in the same breath as Granitza and Marjetic and Steffenhagen and Peter Ressell and Ingo Peter and Dick Advocat, for crying out loud.
Wilt points out that the Fire have always averaged more than the Sting in attendance. MLS is doing something right. Dont you think that our young Fire products (DMB, Boca, Rolfe, Jaqua, etc.) are better than Fajkus, Greg Ryan , Brett Hall, Tyman, etc)?
I love Peter Wilt, but he has a vested interest in those statements. The soccer fan base should be larger now that youth soccer is bigger than ever and yesterday's youth players are now today's customers. My argument would be that the Fire should be doing even better. They are failing miserably. Today, the Sting today would be drawing 30,000 on average, because a more mature (and wider) fan base would be soaking up the experience of top-level and exciting soccer. The 1998 Fire team captured the imagination of the fans. They were exciting. But even that was unsustainable. Today's team is about as exciting as college soccer. Fajkus, Tyma, Ryan, all fine players. You forgot Rudy Glenn and Mark Simanton, to mention two more. I would put them up against the current team, Americans vs. Americans. I would take Granitza over Peter Nowak, as well, and I am a big Nowak fan. Also, it is fair to point out that Brett Hall has been training the current and next generation of American players, as have many former Sting and Chicago Power players. So the new class of Americans have a type of training that their predecessors did not have. So, why are the games so flat? We miss the international stars on the field and that is combined with unlimited exposure to the international stars on television (Gol TV, Fox Soccer Channel, RAI). I can now choose between three Italian Serie A games on at the same time on Sunday mornings on three different channels! That is absolutely incredible. The Fire cannot compete with that. How can you go from watching Adriano and Figo and Sebastian Veron to Chris Armas?
I would respect Frankie's opinion, but he did not play outdoors for the Sting in the NASL. I believe he was only on the indoor squad. At any rate, he was not a part of the Championship teams of 1981 and 1984, as he was too young.
I totally forgot about Simanton who did a great job for us. And I remember playing against Rudy (mens league) and ruthlessly kicking him (I felt like crap when I found out it was my childhood hero!). Now that you point out that the Sting would have 30k per game, our current attendance is a bit disheartening. It was a tremendous setback for soccer when the NASL folded. I appreciate your soccer wisdom. But..... I do really enjoy live soccer; the Fire players give their all and it is entertaining to watch. Fire v. Milan showed that the Americans can compete(dont ruin my fantasy). And I would actually prefer to watch LIVE soccer than the best game on tv. Wel, I can say this now that I have TIVO. There is little euro soccer during the mls season so there is little choice. I too love Inter and Veron is second to none.
Get real! DMB is a starter on a team deep into the UEFA Champion's League. Charlie Fajkus would hardly have been a reserve on that squad let alone a starter. Please recall in '83, NASL had most of the best American players play on Team America as part of NASL. They were a bottom dweller. On average, the Americans were nowhere near the quality of MLS. But that doesn't mean that MLS squads would prevail if you could magically bring some NASL sides to the future. The foreign players were top quality. In the 1982 Trans-Atlantic Cup, the Sting beat the third place Serie A side FC Napoli, the Cosmos, and tied Nacional of Uruguay, one of the top South American sides at the time. I don't think any MLS sides would be able to do that. Calls for trashing the single entity are pipedreams. NASL died because they couldn't control the owners. Ultimately, the few teams doing well pushed the teams struggling to survive into untenable financial situations trying to compete. There's no doubt the push for soccer specific stadia fits in nicely with AEG's overall aims. But the move in that direction ultimately gives MLS profitability and long term viability. That viability means that MLS will eventually be a mainstream American sport. The road to that status probably doesn't run through some sort of sudden conversion of american fandom to become soccer aficianados. It looks more like a generational shift. MLS, as it is, is building and expanding a fanbase of families who grew up or are growing up with soccer. Let's revisit MLS vs. NASL eight or nine years down the road when the players coming through the MLS team academies have come through the developmental pipeline and are mature pros. Bet it will be a lot harder call. Frankie Klopas was on the '84 Sting outdoor roster, but was injured most of the year.
You are right about Charlie F. He would frustrate the hell out of me. He would not run well without the ball. My father said he sometimes looked like a statue out there. I would not have predicted Beasley's success in Holland. That one caught me by surprise because he was not a terribly disciplined player with the FIRE: great speed but a lot of bad decisions with the ball. I am happy for him and hope he meets Inter Milan along the way in the Champions League. Donavan's unwillingness to play overseas, for whatever real reason that there is, surprises me, but he made his decision to be a big fish in a small pond. The MLS team academies are a marketing tool for MLS. The top youth players will not be necessarily coming out of those clubs, because those are not the top youth travel teams and they are not getting the best training available. The best players are still coming out of independant clubs like the Chicago Magic or the Sockers of Palatine, Illinois. Both of those clubs have their own indoor facilities and good trainers and are winning state cups and national championships at all age levels. Other states have their top clubs, as well, but the MLS academies appear to be primarily about putting the team jerseys on the kids for promotional purposes. It is not as if Zack Thorton is out there doing all of the goalie training for the Fire Juniors, for example. But Brett Hall and Batata are at the Sockers, training and coaching teams. Manny Rojas is at another Chicago area club. The marketing machine of MLS will not create talent. Only good training will.
That was quite a game aginst Napoli(Comiskey park?). Karlo made a diving header off the post(the first and only time he ever had a header). But I think most fans expected the sting to be competitive with them. Whereas we wouldnt have that same expectation with mls teams. Although the dc v. chelsea score was close, it was not competitive.
I almost forgot about Manny. He was a great part of the 84 team, good dribbler from the right side and crossed the ball. Loved the long passes between he and Jerry Gray(?). When Fajkus received the ball he did show good decision making and worked seemlessly between Karlo/Pato/Arno. Fajkus was a better soccer brain but DMB would probably run him off the field.
OK, you need to stop because Fajkus was a) a lousy player who was regularly yelled at by Karl for his frequent mistakes and b) had no brain to compare with DMB.
Finally, some debate. But I hate to have it come down to a comparison between Charlie and Beasley! Charlie is not the poster boy for the NASL the way Beasley was for the MLS. Back to the Sting vs Napoli: that game is memorable also because the Napoli defense did not have a clue as how to stop Pato Margetic! He drove them crazy! It is ironic that his fellow Argentinian countryman, Diego Armando Maradona, would later play for Napoli and drive the rest of the Italian teams crazy, leading Napoli to the Serie A title. Margetic was something special to watch and should have played for his country. Granitza was a second-division player in Germany but rose to the occassion with Chicago. Giorgio Chinaglia of the NASL's Cosmos was at the top of his game in Italy, winning the scoring title there and the Serie A title for Lazio, right before coming to the USA. These were all great players and the NASL was loaded with them. But the jury is still out on MLS players like Donavan and MLS Alumni Beasley. I cannot call them "great". That is reserved for the Zidanes, Adrianos, Ronaldos, etc. Donavan and Beasley may end up achieving greatness. I will follow both of their careers and continue to root for my hometown Chicago Fire, as well. I would love to see them play more games against Champions League quality teams. That is the best measuring stick, even though they would be friendlies. Another aside: Chris Rolfe's career highlight to date has to be the goal against AC Milan, which was missed on the television coverage. You only see a bad angle of it on a replay! What a shame! It caught the broadcasters by surprise. It caught Milan by surprise. But so did Liverpool...
I watched a lot of Sting games and I've watched a lot of Fire games. Charlie Fajkus was close to worthless. His lack of hustle and lack of skill made him the Sting player I loved to hate. I seriously doubt that the Fajkus of the 1980s would be much more than a bench-warmer in MLS. Overall, the standard of play in the NASL was higher than what we see in MLS. It's true that many over-the-hill foreigners came here for an easy payday, but there were a lot talented players still in their prime who played in the NASL. Beckenbauer was 31 when he joined the Cosmos in 1976. The big difference is in the quality of the American players, which is much, much higher now. Which American player from the 1970s and 1980s could hold down a starting spot in a top league in Europe? NASL teams played well against foreign clubs because, well, they were essentially foreign clubs. Back then, the rules called for at least three Americans to be on the field at all times. Today, that rule seems absurd, doesn't it? Putting limits on American players in their own league? The quality of the product that MLS puts on the field boils down to money. IIRC, the Cosmos spent $10MM on player salaries in 1981 and the Sting $1MM. Today, the MLS salary cap is less than $2MM. What kind of players can you buy for that kind of money? Single-entity is not my cup of tea, but ridiculous spending is what drove the NASL into the ground. For every 77,000 crowd in Giants Stadium, you had a bunch of crowds that were 5,000 or less. It's amazing the NASL survived as long as they did. No, the Fire aren't Real Madrid or Chelsea. But I continue to support them because if fans don't support them, we won't have a team. There was an awfully big void around here from 1984 to 1998.
Okay, okay... Let's agree to bury the berating of Charlie Fajkus! BANG! You just hit the nail on the head! No question about it. $2MM is a joke. It is low to appease the AEG Entertainment Group and other owners who are ONLY involved with MLS to manage SSS's! This is not good for soccer in America! If they had single entity owners with a salary cap closer to $6-8MM, there would be more talent on the field, the level of play would increase. If the level of play increases, attendance will follow. Additionally, you would eliminate the mess that the NASL had on their hands with all other clubs trying to compete with the Cosmos. IMO...
Yeah, because there are plenty of owner operators out there willing to spend $8 Million on each team! That's why we have 12 different owners for our 12 teams and plenty of guys screaming for a franchise in their city! Oh wait... If there wasn't a salary cap, there would be no league. The cap will increase as attendence and profitability increases, not the other way around...
Don't kid yourself! The cap will NEVER rise to the level of attacting quality players to MLS. WHY? MLS is in bed with AEG who could give a sh!t about soccer. That is the bottom line dude!
We've already got quality players in MLS, and the cap went up this year. And I saw and NASL final once and it was sh!t. Most 70s and 80s soccer is incredibly overrated anyway.
Hehe, I guess I should have included one of these : But still, Charlie was the MAN, andd he was the player that not only gave autographs in the tunnel after their showers, but gave many of us 10 year olds actual game souveniers. He would give kids game balls, uniform socks (!!!), shoes (!!!!!), bags, and would even go back INTO the lockerroom, get autographs from other players, and come back out and give a little kid a program signed by the whole team. And the guy would always chitchat with regular folks. My hero.
The problem is that the league has never been profitable. Would you expect AEG, Hunt and the other owners to be pouring $6-7MM a year per team into the league indefinitely without prospects of recouping it? Of course not. The owners have adopted a long term plan that offers the best chance for ultimate league success. They've been using some pretty strict fiscal discipline while assiduously working toward getting the league to profitability. The league would never survive using NFL facilities with outrageous terms. In the SSS, the numbers fall in place for the league to be around a long time. As I understand it, the Metrostars in Giants Stadium is the last huge drain of the league's coffers. When and if the Harrison, NJ stadium becomes reality, the league gets close to turning the corner on profits. When the league starts making some profits, player salaries will improve and there'll be some more money to get some better players. And, of course, there'll some incentive to develop young talent because it will be cheaper than buying it abroad. NASL did what it had to do to get soccer noticed in this country. They got some name players and many quality foreigners to provide an atractive product. Unfortunately, they couldn't create enough interest to sustain the league long term. But it laid the seeds and started the invasion of soccer into mainstream America (before NASL, it was "little league moms" after "soccer moms", etc.) Out of that seed change in soccer awareness inevitably came all the steps forwards til now. Without there having been an NASL, there wouldn't be an MLS. Yeah, MLS might be able to provide better soccer by spending more now. But MLS, as it is, offers the best hope for offering continually improving soccer for the next 5 years and the next 10 years. In the meantime, it'll provide the opportunity for several hundred American players to follow a pro soccer career. The USMNT's success has been testament as to how important that's been for soccer in the US. And at the same time, the fanbase seems to be slowly but surely expanding. Understand that soccer here isn't a fully developed and mature sport. It's probably more in its adolescence -- a bit awkward at times, but certainly growing up. Nothing can magically make it mature, it's a journey we'll just have to go through. Sting vs. FC Napoli - I recall sitting in the stands, seeing Pato get the ball and thinking to myself "boy, are these defenders in for a surprise". I was wrong -- it was more like severe shock!!!
Wasnt Fajkus in the starting line-up in 81 (therefore a decent player?). Wasnt Fajkus the best US player the Sting had? (Dont tell me Rudy was a better player.) Do you remember when Karlo was injured and Rudy was the center forward? (And scored!). Whats Fajkus doing these days?
Fajkus played for the Earthquakes in '84. I put together a reunion in 2001 and again in 2004. When we were searching for former Quakes, someone indicated that they heard Charlie was living outside of Kansas City and is involved with a beer distributorship there. I agree, he was a good player and a stand-up guy!