I told you I took out Dybala and Ronaldo and they're still worth more on average. That website is not necessarily perfect, it's impossible to know their true market value, but it provides an abundantly clear message. Juventus starting 11 are more experienced despite your attempts to nitpick individuals.
We are going to have to agree to disagree. With the tie on the line, Juve were relying on the likes of De Sciglio, Rugani, Bonucci, Matuidi, Dybala/Kean, Bernardeschi. These guys weren't close to good enough to match Ajax after they equalized.
That's the main challenge for Juve now, replacing someone in Chiellini that is irreplaceable. Mandzukic as well. Maybe they have one more CL campaign in them, but the risk will remain that they will be injured in crucial games and Juve will go out in the same way. Their replacements on Wednesday were just not up to the task with everything on the line.
He doesn't really know much about their team or players, to be fair to him. You're arguing with someone who pieces together stories based on first page Google search, blog articles.
No arguments but more that we just see things differently. My main point really was that given the line ups across both legs, Ajax's starting eleven were superior. That was particularly the case in the 2nd half in Turin where Juve were down to their few remaining players. When Juve are absolutely full strength and in form, their first team has shown to be very very strong. However, that's not the version of Juve that Ajax faced. This is the maddening part of the CL and really European competitions at the moment. For a team like Juve who have dominated domestically, the CL becomes the season. That problematic when a two legged tie is in very large part decided by luck and injuries rather than squad quality. Yes, Juve need to improve the roster. Allegri needs to either stay and improve the team's fluency especially when attacking and countering or Juve should seek to evolve with another coach. What Juve really need is a far better medical staff. The funny thing is that the club can do all that and Juve may still need to wait years to finally win the CL when luck is finally on their side. I love the CL, but it's just too much of a crapshoot to obsess over at this point.
You're using common sense. If the conversation continues, you'll see a sharp departure from that. Just saying. There's no harm in admitting that the better team won the 2 legged affair. They did the same, playing the same style against Madrid. Injuries, mistakes, bad managerial decisions and luck somehow find a way to play a part to varying degrees. In the end, they deserve to be where they are. Absolutely nothing wrong admitting that. Kudos to you.
The better team that lined up on that day certainly won. That's the big caveat. Juve particularly in that 2nd half at 1-1 were missing too many players and Ajax took advantage. Now, do I think a full strength Juve with the likes of Mandzukic, Chiellini, Costa, an in form Dybala defeat this quality Ajax side over two matches? I'd like to think so, but unfortunately we can't know that. That's what makes this season a bit disappointing. Juve put so much into the CL and we fans as well only to see Juve go out without their best on the field. That's just the nature of a short all or nothing tournament like the CL.
Just FYI, every Easter weekend Ajax host a U-17 competition for top club youth teams. Ajax and Juventus U-17 team play today and ironically Tottenham are also in the same four team group!!! I don't know if there will be any web streams available for this match. Moises Kean was one of the top scorers in this competition several years ago when he played for the Juve U-17s. This year's Ajax team is thought to be the most talented since the team that featured van de Beek, de Ligt and Nouri.
Too much over analysis. While the attack wins games and the defense wins championships, the heart & soul of the team is the midfield. Our problem all season is that we have a midfield that does not impose itself. It gets muscled around easily and the few games we lost this season showed that. There is plenty of talent on this side but when the midfield is not able to control the tempo, that talent gets negated. If a good offer comes for Pjanic this summer, we should take it. He has talent but it is obvious he is not going to lead the team.
I agree that our midfield is not up to snuff. There was a Football Italia blog post last fall that basically argued that Juve could not win the CL with this midfield. I agreed with that then and now it has been shown to be the case. Where I disagree mildly is that it is a Pjanic problem. He has his issues, but I think it is more the people who surround him that is the problem. He is the only one of the bunch that can actually make a pass (well, Khedira and Can when healthy may be exceptions, but either of them being healthy has been a rare occurrence this year). I would prefer to keep him and replace the the others with higher quality players like SMS and/or Pogba. I do think Ramsey, if HE can stay healthy, will help here as he is a multifaceted MF like Sami used to be or like Marchisio was. Once again we are getting an injury prone player though. If we can't bring in a Pogba or SMS, then maybe we have to sell Pjanic, but who is going to run the team then?
My problem with Pjanic is that he is not a protagonist. He has to want the ball at all times. He has to have the will to be the engine of the team. He cannot just be a supporting part. I think what Allegri was trying to get out of him and Dybala this season were two players who were going to run the team between the lines. Maybe it is the basketball guy in me but I look at players like those two as point guards. I have stated this before, their problem is not so much when they have the ball, it is when they do not. They need to make themselves available as an outlet on every play.
These are fair criticisms of Pjanic though as others have said perhaps the best approach is to add a key piece to the midfield and keep Pjanic rather than sell off the only guy that can pass the ball. While I agree that Pjanic will not boss the midfield, I see him as a very useful second fiddle provided you get a Pogba/SMS.
Too much hype on SMS. He has done well against provincials in Serie A, disappears when he plays against the big boys.
Agnelli has turned this team into a better version of Arsenal. Just win Scudetti and go as far as u can in CL...no care to actually build a world class team His Ronaldo masterplan was a swing and a miss....we have become a laughing stock in Europe now, losing to some teenagers. Then our loser coach with his same loser comments excusing our shortcomings on a couple of injuries. All left to complete the embarrassment is for Ronaldo to come out and leave and on his way out trash us like Dani Alves and say we were too weak mentally for him.
Well.....those "teenagers" took down Bayern, Real and us. That is a pretty extraordinary group of teenagers, wouldn't you say?
its like you all forgot about the 2016 euros... Conte had a weak Italy beat Spain by 2 goals(shut them out too), Beat Belgium by two goals( shut them out) and only lost to Germany on penalities because Zaza got cute. He had the juve back line and Gigi, Pelle, Stuaro, Eder, Giaccherini, Parolo, MDS, Florenzi, Candreva.... a very weak team. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...onte-made-italy-genuine-euro-2016-contenders/ no one does well at Chelsea, Roman is the coach there... the entire team revolves around Hazard as well. Who was the last coach that did well at Chelsea besides Jose? and what happened to Jose?
Feyenoord opted out from the possibility to have the Youth team play in the Pyramid. It was a enormous blunder. Our youth players are behind those of PSV, AZ and Ajax when it comes to be ready for first team duty. Those competitors Young players just have to perform against adult players not in the mood for being nice guys.
Juve aren't in a position to acquire players to complete all parts of the team. 2015- Stellar midfield & defense, little depth and a lack of quality in attack aside from Tevez 2016- transition year 2017- strong starting eleven with hardly any depth & only three good midfielders 2018- more depth in attack by adding wingers, solid but aging defense, midfield still short of quality despite adding Matuidi 2019- Stellar attack (on paper), midfield still lacking quality, aging CBs The worst part of this year is injuries ravaged Juve's strength in attack, made the midfield and defense desperately thin in numbers. Think about it: -Benatia, gone for the season, sold -Barzagli, season ending injury -Chiellini, injured in key moments -Spinazola, injured for entire first half of season -Cancelo, knee surgery (drop off as a result from first half of season) -Khedira, season ending injury -Emre Can, missed most of the season -Douglas Costa, season ending injuries -Cuadrado, season long injury -Mandzukic, injured half the season -Dybala, severely out of form, never the same player since his injury at the beginning of 2018 Pjanic and Matuidi have been run into the ground. Ronaldo has been the only attacker consistently present. Bonucci and Rugani have been Juve's only reliable CBs. Sandro for most of the season did not have a backup. Juve looked physically done vs Ajax because physically they were.
We do disagree but it's always good to be able to hear from someone with a different point of view. But just wondering and I keep going back to my original premise of it was tactical mistakes that were made rather than the personnel being inadequate. Are you placing too much emphasis on the performance in these 90 minutes? I understand that Dybala hasn't done as well as hoped but apart from him of the 14 that took the field were you surprised/did they underperform relative to expectations? Was it an off night? Reason I ask, is because with someone like Bernadeschi for example i suspect he was quiet because he was given a specific role. Not necessarily a huge fan but he has been designated a more conservative role than is typically the case. These are the sort of nuances that people aren't really discussing/considering. But again there is a deeper level of analysis required to get at these questions which is a bit more than player A > player B.
It couldn't have been an off night given how poor Juve have played in the league when missing key players and forced to start Rugani, De Sciglio, a severely out of form Dybala, a tired and inconsistent Bernardeschi etc. The players that actually have been able to remain healthy looked physically exhausted. Tactics are very important, but more so than health and form? No. The team Juve were forced into using on these two legs lacked quality. Just take Chiellini's absence. Juve give up about a full goal more per game when he does not start. That alone likely decided the tie. Juve now need to find a way to replace him by next year which may be impossible. As it stands Juve's CBs without him aren't even the best pairing in the league.
so it was a predictable result (or at least unsurprisng) with the players performing in line with recent form?
When I saw the line up, I prayed for Juve to just survive the tie. It was clear that they would need to score at least 2 if not three given that Bonucci & Rugani when paired together allow more than a goal per match. Unfortunately scoring 2-3 would require a miracle from Ronaldo since he has been their only real goal scorer. From February: