18/19 Champions League Thread

Discussion in 'Juventus' started by Dante, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It's not going to. You need a concerted effort starting at the youngest levels. The Netherlands has competition starting very young with leagues for u-13, u-15, u-17 and u-19. Players then graduate to the B or Youth Senior Team. Ajax field teams in all these categories and the Jong Ajax play in the second division of Dutch professional football (they won that championship last season). One reason they can do this is that the travel distances are much smaller than in Italy. the costs of taking a youth team to an opponent are less than taking a Juventus youth team to Napoli (or further as the case might be).

    Ajax have long been committed to their youth program and players that excel know they can get a senior team spot at a young age (de Ligt played in the Europa League final as a 17 year old). Ajax have had to do this because of the modern day football money situation. EPL teams receive almost as much television money as the Ajax total budget. Too many top flight teams just go out and buy players to fill the roster rather than focusing on development. I don't know the answer, but how many Juve players came to the first team from the youth program? I know Marchisio was always proud of having grown up in Turin and becoming a Juve player.

    A balance needs to be struck between bringing in players from the outside versus in house development.
     
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  2. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again, I don't care about the NT, I care about Juve and what's best for them. The NT is irrelevant for Juve.
     
  3. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Juve would never win a Champions League with those players you mentioned at its core, never.
     
  4. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    How many Italians were on the field yesterday? Why are Italians the only ones getting the blame Dante? Did any of the foreigners you were high on pull through?
    Serious question.
     
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  5. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Again, I think you need a balance. Even average Italian players grow and get better playing with other better players and great foreigners. That has been going on for as long as I remember. Some are born with natural talent but many get better playing with other great players.


    Whether it’s a different time or not, Milan was a Serie B side in 1983 and then won a Serie A in 1988. Then then went on to win the CL in 1989 & 90! They did with great players like Maldini and Baresi and other good Italian players but also by fielding a great Dutch Trio of Rijkaard, Van Basten and Gullit. That’s only a span of six years. If it could be done before, I'm sure it can be done again.
     
  6. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    It's not about making a concerted effort to buy Italians just for the sake of it. So long as the team wins, I can almost care less who we field. My issue is with people taking aim at the Italians on this club where a number of the foreign players who were brought in to occupy key roles were utter shit. I don't understand how the Italians get scapegoated.

    I also gave the example of at least two Italians who should be starting for the club at the moment due to form, e.g., Spinazzola and Kean, that are playing second fiddle to foreign players that are either overrated (Sandro/Dybala) or spent (Mandzukic).

    As it appears I am not going to get my way in offloading the Italian who I truly believe is overrated (Allegri), my hope is that the club makes good investments in young prospects that have a winning mentality and the right character to get us over the finish line in CL, whether they be Italian or foreign.
     
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  7. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Try reading all my posts instead of just focusing on the ones where I criticize Italians. Then you'll have answered your own question. Don't be so selective, it's not a good look for you.

    Juve's best players yesterday were 3 foreign ones.
     
  8. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that Kean should have started yesterday over Dybala. The Spinazzola thing, not sure, but leaning towards it.

    I'm also past the point of really defending Allegri. I don't know what it is, but I don't think he's as apt to the team as he was a couple seasons ago.
     
  9. Rob V

    Rob V New Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    Aug 1, 2017
     
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  10. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Nearly all managers have a sell by date these days. Players stop listening after a while even to the best.

    You will not see any more SAF's or even Wengers again IMHO.

    Max's time has come. He has done a very good job here, but it is time for us to move elsewhere and the same goes for him. He could do well at many clubs and it is time for him to give another place a try.

    Now with Bepe gone it is time for us to start with a fresh approach all over.
     
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  11. Rob V

    Rob V New Member

    Juventus
    Italy
    Aug 1, 2017
    I agree- his time is done. However, not sold on Deschamps. Conte is pragmatic. Ancelotti unfortunately isn’t available. Mourinho is too defensive and is finished.

    I wish Klopp was available or Guardiola, but in reality, I think unless a big name becomes available before June, it will be Allegri once again next year.

    I don’t hate Allegri- you can’t hate someone who wins 5 titles, but the constant rotation, the constant injuries, the constant tactical changes, the pragmatism and disjointed —ness of the team is becoming boring to watch
     
  12. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I agree with you.. we shouldn't put italians just for the sake of them being italian...

    however... my fear in the past decade.. and sadly i believe its starting to come to fruition.. is that we are becoming more and more foreign.. and we're losing the italianita that Juve have always been associated with.

    I won't even go into ADP days.. lets go back in recent history.. when BBC were dominating and Buffon in the pipes... teams knew they were gonna have a tough time scoring at the J Stadium. What identity do we have now? Hoping Ronaldo outscores our problems?
     
  13. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If there were 3 Italians now like the BBC, I'd gladly take them. Sadly, there isn't. Romangoli might be one in the future.
     
  14. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

    Aug 22, 2007
    LA, California
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Italy has the talent, it just takes a coach with balls and new ideas to help them flourish. Put De Jong and De Ligt under Allegri and they'll be like Rugani and Bentancur


    Italy lacks decision making and new ideas. Until they witch hunt Juve and not take full advantage of marketing and promotion and making ticket purchases easier....aaaand learn how to address racism, itll hurt all of Italian football top to bottom
     
  15. NicktheGreek

    NicktheGreek Member+

    Feb 15, 2001
    Your comment is almost as irrelevant as as pointing out how irrelevant it is.
     
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  16. Rossonero23

    Rossonero23 Member+

    Sep 9, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Juventus have loser mentality. Despite having 30 scudetti. Even a winner like Cr7 can't change that.
     
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  17. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    Says the guy whose team went from relevant to provincial.
     
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  18. Daei_10

    Daei_10 Member+

    Aug 22, 2007
    LA, California
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It amazes me the audacity of other Italians saying these things about Juve when majority have a hard time even making CL...then also making it out of the group. Getting kicked out by 2nd 3rd rate teams like Porto, shakhtar, cska and others. I mean at least be somewhat competitive if you're gonna talk shit. LOL
     
  19. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Upstate NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Milan couldn't even make it out of their Europa League group, talk about loser mentality.
     
  20. NicktheGreek

    NicktheGreek Member+

    Feb 15, 2001
    Thinking back to Juve's acquisition of CR7 and how the pundits claimed it augured favorably for the nth coming of the glory of Italian Football, the big eared jug may have been a bit too much for this year. I can say while I walk away saddened, I was very entertained, and I have enjoyed this CL season and Juve's domination of Serie A immensely.
    IMHO, neither is worthy of replacing Sophia Loren or Pizza as a UNESCO world treasure, but pretty damn great nonetheless.
     
  21. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    You avoiding the question hardly makes me look bad, lol, nice try :p
     
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  22. calabrese8

    calabrese8 Member+

    Feb 9, 2008
    Vancouver
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    what about Pochettino? I doubt he's available at the moment... but he's a Juventino and his family immigrated to Argentina from Torino
     
  23. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    He wouldn't be a bad choice.

    The problem is, winning the Scudetto takes a certain mentality and approach. Max is excellent at that.

    Even through the group stages of the CL, that mentality is pretty much what you need to get through.

    But once you hit the knockout stages, the last decade has shown that you have to have a skilled, attacking POV to prevail at the ultimate Euro level. That is where Max lets us down all too often.

    Only when we fall behind in a first leg does he set them out to attack. That is not the formula for winning at that stage of the competition.

    Right now all the teams left are attacking teams except Porto who look to be going out as well. If we are going to win, we need to improve in that area and I am not convinced Max is the man to change that.
     
  24. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    If we go with someone like Poch, we may not win the Scudetto every year, but perhaps we would have a better shot at winning the CL.
     
  25. juventino13

    juventino13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2005
    Caribbean
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    That's because he isn't, he never has been, and he never will be
     

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