13-0 Discuss....

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by McSkillz, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    We'll, I'm mostly sure you're not Walter Payton. Less sure, but still pretty sure, you never scored a touchdown in the NFL. I will enjoy you correcting me, and if so, congratulations on your success. Especially if you're Walter Payton, because that would blow my mind.
     
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  2. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    What are you talking about? I never said I was Walter Payton, I just gave him as an example of how to act with dignity and humility.
     
  3. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    If you listen to the Throw Back series by Wahl or read Murray's book or read any history on the USWNT you will consistently hear about mentality. The culture within the team was winning at all costs. Every practice is 100%, every game is 100%, every tackle, pass, everything is max effort. It is wanting it more and doing whatever it takes.

    I think the leaders on the team think that was lost a bit since the Sweden game. With the horrible 2017 SheBelieves and the run of bad form and losing to France badly twice. They tried to get rid of Ellis who maybe doesn't enforce the code like former coaches. Or the leadership on the team needed to change a bit and new leaders emerge. Who knows. Someone will write a book 10 years from now.

    But I think they are approaching this World Cup with the idea of getting back to that. No more "ambassadors for all the little girls out there", no more playing like role models that don't take yellow cards to prevent counter attacks.

    Pinoe is a leader. Pinoe was on TV at halftime of one friendly, this Spring, saying the midfield needs to take yellows to stop counters. That was in a friendly! Pinoe jumps on Morgan when she is hardly celebrating #4. Pinoe goes over the top on #9. Everyone catches on.

    I think it was deliberate. Had nothing to do with Thailand. They were just unlucky to draw us. It has everything to do with France. France is better than the USA technically and tactically. The USA needs to beat them mentally and they know it.

    Just my theory based on some observations by Taylor Rockwell.
     
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  4. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    You know, I was debating about whether to post about this subject and against my better judgement I posted an analogy.

    I now see that often comments concerning our USWNT in this tournament may come down to attack or humiliate the poster rather than a sensible counter-argument.
    So go ahead folks.
     
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  5. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    That's how she always plays. I've always thought Lloyd, Alex and Rapinoe were a little too selfish. I also think she was probably (selfishly) trying to tie the record (goals in 5 consecutive WC games), but I think she would have played this way if the score was 2-0 or 12-0.

    I don't see how Carli was disrespectful to Thailand though, if she was less selfish, they might have scored 14 goals.

    I was surprised they added 3 minutes. I was expecting a whistle at 90' or maybe 1' added time.
     
  6. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You'll have to point out where someone even marginally humiliated you, because that is just a ridiculous statement.
     
  7. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like that you put this in all caps, considering that it's proving my point that you haven't seen it and don't know the context. It was the semifinal; Norway had just advanced to the final. And while I do find it over the top (as I did Rapinoe's celebration), I have no problem with Norway doing it (as I don't with Rapinoe; "celebrate how you want. you do you."). Also the fact that US players still talk about it is not because they're still bitter or something but because they used that moment as fuel to win in 1996 and 1999, and it stoked an already existent rivalry.
     
  8. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    And when someone criticized your analogy, you said, "So you think you know everything about me? Huh?" which I thought was a little bit of an over the top response. So I made a joke about it. Your line seems to imply that you've "been there before" like Walter Payton. Sorry if you didn't get the joke, which was actually a lighthearted gag.

    If you're looking for "an example of how to act with dignity and humility," which is a laudable goal for us all - don't look at your own posts in this thread. They are neither.
     
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  9. Number007

    Number007 Member

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    trying to talk objectively about the USWNT is a bad idea. It just gets misinterpreted too often. in fact even the equal pay thing - something that should be largely factual - has degenerated into a referendum of whether you support women or not.

    Its tiring.

    usually i just read the comments and refrain from posting now.
     
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  10. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Yup
     
  11. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe you guys can start a forum about how you got responded to in the USWNT forum.
     
  12. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Except, you know, they hadn't yet.

    It was the semi.
     
  13. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seriously, relax.
    The one thing I like about this forum is that people are typically respectful, even if opinions differ.
     
  14. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm very relaxed. This doesn't cost much energy at all. Your advice might better be directed at the posters I was responding to who have turned to complaining how this forum has wronged them.
    And how have I not been respectful? I don't think I've disparaged anyone here. If I have, I am sorry. That's doesn't mean I won't shoot down a bad argument though.
     
  15. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    #140 Kevin625, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
    First of all, that's speculation, although I agree with some of what you're saying.

    Secondly, I just didn't see that in the way they played at all. I saw the opposite. They didn't have a bunch of dirty tackles or hard fouls and weren't bullying Thailand... they were just out-hustling them and trying to play as fast as possible. That's nothing like the attitude you described.

    I have a copy of every game except a couple on my HDD dating back almost a decade and a bunch of older ones as well, many of them (especially all the recent games) have the PreGame/Halftime/Recap and I don't remember Rapinoe ever saying that about the yellows for midfielders, but I believe you and I'll take your word for it.

    I've never been a big fan of Rapinoe on or off the field, she might be my least favorite USWNT player (my favorites are Ertz/Lavelle/Mewis). Unlike most people that aren't a fan of her, I don't have a problem with her kneeling during the anthem or taking stances on whatever issue of the day she has, I just ignore it most of the time. I just always think she's a little too selfish for me, both on and off the field. She tries too hard to bring attention to herself and it shows in the way she plays and behaves. She's always been too showboaty for me. Many of my favorite players in sports are the classy ones... Peyton Manning, Messi, Ken Griffey Jr, Mia Hamm, etc.

    I also thought it was extremely selfish of her to go to the 2016 Olympics, but I blame Ellis mostly for this... but in an interview before the Olympics and referenced in the RSA friendly just a month before the Olympics, she did say word-for-word, "I think I can be honest, if I'm not going to be the player I need to be I can step aside and give that opportunity to someone else on the roster."

    She didn't of course.

    It came as no shock to me that she's the one that did that celebration against Thailand. I didn't care for it at all when I saw it, but I'm usually biased against her and just thought it was a stupid celebration. I still didn't think it was that big of a deal though because I didn't think her intention was to be disrespectful, I think she was trying to include the bench players.

    Personally, I think the team would be better with Press playing over Rapinoe. Rapinoe is good at taking corners and set pieces, has a good shot and sends in good crosses, but she's also too slow and inconsistent for me and I think the team would be better with Press.

    The thing that irritated me the most in the game was Rapinoe, but not for her celebrations, but for her selfish wild shots from terrible angles when she had open teammates.

    Ironically, I would think I'd be one of the first people to go off on Rapinoe, but once again, I just didn't see the intent, but I can definitely understand why others were bothered by her stupid celebration.

    I also wasn't a fan of Alex counting to 4 after her 4th goal. Too arrogant for me, but I didn't find it disrespectful towards Thailand.
     
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  16. MiLLeNNiuM

    MiLLeNNiuM Member+

    Aug 28, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By interjecting in a conversation between others and making a recommendation that they start their own forum to basically complain elsewhere. That's disrespectful and unnecessary.
    Make your point and move along.
     
  17. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I've never said anyone was disrespectful to Thailand. Can your foot disrespect an ant? I just said some of the celebrations looked bad from a sporting stand point. I don't think any of these women are bad sports. Basically, if you leave your fan blinders out of it, you have to either think the women were bad sports about the goals or they were doing it on purpose.

    I know Morgan is a fierce competitor, but I'm sure there were CONCACAF games or club games where she put a goal in in a lopsided win and didn't do a dance with the bench. In this game, it seemed everyone's first reaction was to just hug and go back to the center circle.

    Too much ink spilled on this. If it wasn't on purpose, it isn't as interesting.
     
  18. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wow - so this post was *heavily edited* since I got the original alert.

    How did I cut you down? Seriously. I'll admit I teased you a little, but my point was that *none* of us here is a *know-it-all* when it comes to winning in the WWC.

    And now there's a seniority rule or something, regarding posting here?

    You say different view points are welcome, but then say don't attack the comments of "long-time posters" :confused:

    My viewpoint is that harping on the women who are the topic of this whole forum for how they celebrated their success is in fact disrespecting *them*. And I'll keep arguing that with the people who harp on that.
     
  19. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was decades ago, and he was in the minority even then.

    As already has been mentioned, the bar for athletic celebrations has been raised considerably.
     
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  20. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That "conversation" was not between others. It was on this forum, and it was absolutely in reference to interactions they had just had with me and other posters.
    If they want to talk to each other, there is a function for that.
     
  21. Kevin625

    Kevin625 Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I already agreed that I understood how a couple may have looked bad.

    I guess I'm not entirely sure what you mean by fan blinders, because definitely I don't see the only two options as being bad sports OR doing it on purpose.
     
  22. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    #147 RalleeMonkey, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
    Wait - the 11th is where they did the choreographed dance, right? If that's the case, ya, Pugh's celebration was nothing. The whole bench doing a dance, for the 11th goal in the opening match against a nation that has a grand total of 1,000 female soccer players .... in.the.country. Well, that's ridiculous, don't you think?
     
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  23. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Oh, if there's any way to possibly paint the U.S. in a negative light, the Canadians are going to jump on it. Canada:U.S. = Fox News:anything not right/conservative.
     
  24. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    Same
     
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  25. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


     
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